The "I can't believe" Mikel Landa thread

[Forever The Best]

Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

Not this again.Or are you saying the bolded just because they are British?He also rode for Astana,by your logic he doped last year but he surpasses them this year by riding clean which is a nonsense.Point is he probably(%99.99) doped both last year and this year.Sky buying Landa makes them even worse by their logics since Walsh always bashed Landa and Astana last year..They also had people like Leinders,Rogers,Sean Yates etc. in their squad.So much for anti doping policy

 

[Zypherov]

Re: Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

BB's aren't outdated I know for a fact they are very much in use

Please enlighten us with your evidence of these facts....

 

[thehog]

We may never know but this is starkly similar to Hamilton's rest day mishap...

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

BB's aren't outdated I know for a fact they are very much in use

Please enlighten us with your evidence of these facts....

Contador was found with plasticizers in his blood but never tripped the passport. Kreuziger had several experts testify that his passport showed manipulation. Horner's blood profile is not possible except for transfusions.

And finally, there is no evidence of a change from the "dark era" to now. A claim is that things are cleaner now, but there is no evidence towards that fact. If there is no evidence of change, it is more than likely things are the same as they were.

Good enough for you?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

BB's aren't outdated I know for a fact they are very much in use

Please enlighten us with your evidence of these facts....

Contador was found with plasticizers in his blood but never tripped the passport. Kreuziger had several experts testify that his passport showed manipulation. Horner's blood profile is not possible except for transfusions.

And finally, there is no evidence of a change from the "dark era" to now. A claim is that things are cleaner now, but there is no evidence towards that fact. If there is no evidence of change, it is more than likely things are the same as they were.

Good enough for you?

The bold one was taking manipulations to a stupid level. Its was blatantly obvious to anyone who understands a little about plasma expansion that he had taken multiple top-ups to win the Vuelta.

Yet he didn't trip the passport, as the passport assumes a constant level as the baseline, specifically NOT the decline you expect on a grand tour.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

BB's aren't outdated I know for a fact they are very much in use

Please enlighten us with your evidence of these facts....

Contador was found with plasticizers in his blood but never tripped the passport. Kreuziger had several experts testify that his passport showed manipulation. Horner's blood profile is not possible except for transfusions.

And finally, there is no evidence of a change from the "dark era" to now. A claim is that things are cleaner now, but there is no evidence towards that fact. If there is no evidence of change, it is more than likely things are the same as they were.

Good enough for you?

The bold one was taking manipulations to a stupid level. Its was blatantly obvious to anyone who understands a little about plasma expansion that he had taken multiple top-ups to win the Vuelta.

Yet he didn't trip the passport, as the passport assumes a constant level as the baseline, specifically NOT the decline you expect on a grand tour.

Yes, Horner was truly "out there" and still danced around the passport.

..and for Landa, what are the chances, right after a rest day of falling sick? I mean of all the days to get sick, right after an overly impressive TT performance

 

[staubsauger]

Chances are high Landa got Breukinked.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So, let me get this straight.

Landa does a great time trial.
Landa goes into the refil...I mean rest day.
Landa emerges from rest day with no visible issues to his own teammates.

Landa mysteriously gets dropped shortly after the start of the stage.
Sky says Landa was sick.

Do I have this right? Because if so, I ain't buyin'.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

So, let me get this straight.

Landa does a great time trial.
Landa goes into the refil...I mean rest day.
Landa emerges from rest day with no visible issues to his own teammates.

Landa mysteriously gets dropped shortly after the start of the stage.
Sky says Landa was sick.

Do I have this right? Because if so, I ain't buyin'.

Given how things unfolded this whole thing stinks. The fact his teammates knew nothing , he appeared OK but some colds he had in the hot bus as per Boswell declaration raise more questions.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

BB's aren't outdated I know for a fact they are very much in use

Please enlighten us with your evidence of these facts....

That is far out there man. No way they are doing it you think?

 

[Benotti69]

Sky PR machine going into over drive. Boswell saying Landa knew he was sick but said nothing!

Sky claiming viral gastroenteritis and yet not telling riders to keep their distance in order not to catch it!! Yeah really rings of truth.

The most common way to develop viral gastroenteritis — often called stomach flu — is through contact with an infected person or by ingesting contaminated food or water. So Sky better start telling other riders to DNF stages in order to make it look real. One isolated case aint believable!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

BB's aren't outdated I know for a fact they are very much in use

Please enlighten us with your evidence of these facts....

Please enlighten us how you know riders stopped using BBs.

Thomas Frei talked about microdosing. Has a current rider talked about doping and how BBs are no longer in use?

 

[hrotha]

It's perfectly reasonable to suspect blood bags have been largely replaced by different drugs. Programs are evolving constantly, and there's reason to suspect weight-losing PEDs have become at least as important a part of the cocktail nowadays, if not more, since ~2011 or so.

Contador's plasticizers are from 6 years ago. Riccò's transfusion was 5 years ago. The cases of Kreuziger and Horner are a bit more recent, but still, it's been a LONG time since we last got a proper look at a top-level doping program.

That said, blood bags definitely didn't become outdated with the biological program. I would imagine they're still around, even if other doping methods have become more important recently.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

It's perfectly reasonable to suspect blood bags have been largely replaced by different drugs. Programs are evolving constantly, and there's reason to suspect weight-losing PEDs have become at least as important a part of the cocktail nowadays, if not more, since ~2011 or so.

Contador's plasticizers are from 6 years ago. Riccò's transfusion was 5 years ago. The cases of Kreuziger and Horner are a bit more recent, but still, it's been a LONG time since we last got a proper look at a top-level doping program.

That said, blood bags definitely didn't become outdated with the biological program. I would imagine they're still around, even if other doping methods have become more important recently.

Would've thought the BBs were part of the kit for a GT and what has replaced that for a rest day?

 

[thehog]

Re:

So, let me get this straight.

Landa does a great time trial.
Landa goes into the refil...I mean rest day.
Landa emerges from rest day with no visible issues to his own teammates.

Landa mysteriously gets dropped shortly after the start of the stage.
Sky says Landa was sick.

Do I have this right? Because if so, I ain't buyin'.

Yes its all very strange, considering marginal gains are meant to discount things like sudden overnight illness brought up by the relaxation of a rest day...

 

[Zypherov]

Re: Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

BB's aren't outdated I know for a fact they are very much in use

Please enlighten us with your evidence of these facts....

Please enlighten us how you know riders stopped using BBs.

Thomas Frei talked about microdosing. Has a current rider talked about doping and how BBs are no longer in use?

I never stated anywhere that blood bags were absolutley non-existant. No one knows exactly what maybe going on.
When an individual states that they know for a fact that blood bags are still in use then if they can not provide evidence for that statement then they loose all credibility. Or if they are honest, they are just guessing. You can't look into a crystal ball and say this and that rider is taking so and so as a fact when the truth of the matter is no one knows for certain. Speculation yes, suspicion yes, merited absolutely given the nature of cycling and its dark side, but not for certain without a positive test.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re: Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

BB's aren't outdated I know for a fact they are very much in use

Please enlighten us with your evidence of these facts....

Please enlighten us how you know riders stopped using BBs.

Thomas Frei talked about microdosing. Has a current rider talked about doping and how BBs are no longer in use?

I never stated anywhere that blood bags were absolutley non-existant. No one knows exactly what maybe going on.
When an individual states that they know for a fact that blood bags are still in use then if they can not provide evidence for that statement then they loose all credibility. Or if they are honest, they are just guessing. You can't look into a crystal ball and say this and that rider is taking so and so as a fact when the truth of the matter is no one knows for certain. Speculation yes, suspicion yes, merited absolutely given the nature of cycling and its dark side, but not for certain without a positive test.

Please don't do the never test positive spiel. We know that is irrelevant and it is perfectly legitimate to make conclusions from other available evidence.

And no one looses all credibility because they fail to meet your standard on one point. You disagreeing about something subjective does not then make the objective facts not credible. They're still facts.

Generalizations are absolutely legitimate when the circumstances fit, and the established facts are sound. There is no evidence BB's are outdated, either having been replaced, sufficiently deterred, or abandoned by the culture. There is evidence they are still used, in my earlier reply which you ignored.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Hardly a surprise, landa has been weekend all giro by allergies. The rest day made him lose his rythme and made him hugely vulnerable. BB's are outdated with the biological passport what's more on a team with such a stellar anti doping policy as sky. People shouting conspiracy need to move on.

He's right. The idea that a cyclist would dope is extremely implausible.

 

[Huapango]

Re: Re:

Looks like Landa got caught and instead on having a doping positive tarnish the race, the team was told to pull the rider. I kind of think the same thing happened to Dumoulin this year, and last.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Looks like Landa got caught and instead on having a doping positive tarnish the race, the team was told to pull the rider. I kind of think the same thing happened to Dumoulin this year, and last.

I wouldn't see this as a stretch either.... it's a very odd situation.

 

[Tonton]

Suspect...I'm not surprised that the BB talk is happening. To be continued...

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

Looks like Landa got caught and instead on having a doping positive tarnish the race, the team was told to pull the rider. I kind of think the same thing happened to Dumoulin this year, and last.

If a domestic rider/team was in question, the option would be more likely.
This way I doubt the Italians would miss an opportunity to discredit the Brits and scandalize the coming Tour.

 

[thehog]

Suspect...I'm not surprised that the BB talk is happening. To be continued...

Funny, that if Landa went FR the thread would go bananas, now that he dropped out in suspicious circumstances the thread is just as long.

Something is up and Brailsford is well in on it.

 

[vedrafjord]

Re:

BB's are outdated with the biological passport

Blood bags on rest days are as you have put it a thing of the past. You can't boost your hematocrit level to 50 % any longer with the biological passport in place.

Michael Ashenden, who sat on the UCI passport panel that tried to catch athletes, has said you can do blood bags and not trip the passport, keeping parameters believable with plasma and microdosed EPO. The passport scheme hasn't changed since then and we know riders can get away with values going the wrong way during a GT and not get flagged. http://nyvelocity.com/articles/interviews/behind-the-scenes-of-the-contador-cas-hearing-with-michael-ashenden/

Note that Rasmussen had a thermonuclear doping programme at the 2007 Tour, and kept his haematocrit between 40.3% and 43.9% across three tests. Since athletes can manipulate their blood parameters, the only real way to catch them is either hope they slip up, catch them in the act, or good old fashioned police investigation/whistleblower.

Contador's plasticizers are from 6 years ago. Riccò's transfusion was 5 years ago. The cases of Kreuziger and Horner are a bit more recent, but still, it's been a LONG time since we last got a proper look at a top-level doping program.

Sure, and the logistics are a pain (renting secret apartments and hoping the power doesn't go out and all that) but if you were a doping GT rider, and there was something undetectable that would give you a big boost, why would you stop? IMO the fluctuations in Aru's performance at the Giro last year were textbook transfusion boosts.

 

[hrotha]

Perhaps you'd stop if you had better stuff available. In no way I'm implying things are "cleaner" just because a particular doping method may have lost its edge to newer PEDs, just to be clear.

I agree Aru's 2015 Giro looks like a classic blood bag affair, though.