The importance of crank length to the cyclist.

[Oldman]

Also important to consider the angle the photo is taken from when eye-balling position.

What I have noted looking at photos and videos plus attending various top level track competitions where comfort is not an issue so if getting the torso lower than horizontal was an advantage these riders would do it. In particular the sprinters. I had heard the sprinters were trying 150mm cranks but this week they were all training and racing on 165-170mm, SRMs of course

The lead rider looks to have at least 170mm+ cranks

 

[CoachFergie]

Alex is riding 175mm cranks. Dylan in 2 is on 172.5mm. Not sure about Scott and Fraser but would be surprised if Fraser is not on 175 or even 177.5.

 

[sciguy]

Another famous Powercranker who seems to have a position problem with normal length cranks.

Also mentioned in the same thread, "Basically, Mirinda's pedaling dynamics are admittedly (by all parties) poor."

One would hope that her years of pedaling Powercranks would improve her pedaling dynamics but it doesn't seem to be the case.


Hugh

 

[FrankDay]

Another famous Powercranker who seems to have a position problem with normal length cranks.

Also mentioned in the same thread, "Basically, Mirinda's pedaling dynamics are admittedly (by all parties) poor."

One would hope that her years of pedaling Powercranks would improve her pedaling dynamics but it doesn't seem to be the case.


Hugh

Hey, I agree here. She, like many, don't seem to care what I think or say about the subject. Trust me, I have tried.

Hopefully, the fact that she wasn't able to knock Chrissie off this year, when Chrissie, in retrospect, was obviously suffering from her crash 2 weeks earlier, will wake her up to the fact she needs to pay attention to these kinds of "small" aerodynamic details if she ever wants to win again, at least while Chrissie is around.

Since the rider is the major source of drag, position is almost everything. The woman who set a new bike course record didn't even have an aero helmet (nor did Chrissie). Aero helmets don't do much for you if you basic position is bad to start with. I guess it is better than bad position and no aero helmet but, not much.

Edit: I see you posted this in that ST thread: "Interesting to hear this about one of the few Pros who is known to actually spend a good amount of time riding those "we will not mention their name" independent cranks Perhaps another good reason to question their effectiveness for cyclists." I might add that she doesn't spend nearly as much time as she should on those unmentionable independent cranks. I think she hardly uses them at all during the season, which may account for why she has such bad "pedaling dynamics" at the end of the season. Also, I was at an expo last year and watch the Retul fitter "fit" Rinny on the stage. One of his comments was he wished he could shorten her cranks. I think she is one of those people (there are many of them) who are letting their equipment (sponsors?) limit their potential. Oh, and the ex professional cyclist who set a new bike split record at Kona has spent time training on unnamed independent cranks (and raced using a standard helmet compared to Rinny's aero helmet), so what have we learned? Aero helmets are worthless? LOL.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Also, I was at an expo last year and watch the Retul fitter "fit" Rinny on the stage. One of his comments was he wished he could shorten her cranks. <snip>, so what have we learned?

That Retul, like any measurement device, is not worth a pinch of **** when used poorly.

 

[FrankDay]

That Retul, like any measurement device, is not worth a pinch of **** when used poorly.

Can you name anything worth much if used poorly?

 

[veganrob]

I am not sure if this is a good photo to judge Carfrae position. She appears to be out of the saddle while staying in the armrests. That might also explain the dropped heel. Though I am not familiar with her position I do know the fitter very well and know he would never put her like in this photo.
I think we would have to see more.

 

[Oldman]

Another famous Powercranker who seems to have a position problem with normal length cranks.

Also mentioned in the same thread, "Basically, Mirinda's pedaling dynamics are admittedly (by all parties) poor."

One would hope that her years of pedaling Powercranks would improve her pedaling dynamics but it doesn't seem to be the case.


Hugh

This rider's knowledge of riding a bike is poor, even by triathelete comparisons. I don't think crank length has much to do with her choice in body position or tactical ability judging by that photo alone. The judgement is based on that alone, however.

 

[FrankDay]

I don't think crank length has much to do with her choice in body position or tactical ability judging by that photo alone. The judgement is based on that alone, however.

After much consideration I still don't understand what you are saying here. Could you try again?

 

[CoachFergie]

Just wanted to report that Dylan Kennett improved his 5 min power by keeping his crank length similar. Coaching and support staff at http://www.coachferg.com were stunned that actual training, diet, recovery and motivation could lead to improvement on the bike. We had previously been led to believe that power could only improve through the use of shorter cranks or independent cranking systems.

I will keep people posted if others make similar performance gains from these new and radical techniques.

 

[onetrack]

Just wanted to report that Dylan Kennett improved his 5 min power by keeping his crank length similar. Coaching and support staff at http://www.coachferg.com were stunned that actual training, diet, recovery and motivation could lead to improvement on the bike. We had previously been led to believe that power could only improve through the use of shorter cranks or independent cranking systems.

I will keep people posted if others make similar performance gains from these new and radical techniques.

Now imagine there may be a simple cheap equipment change that could even further improve his 5min power at the same fitness level!

 

[FrankDay]

Now imagine there may be a simple cheap equipment change that could even further improve his 5min power at the same fitness level!

Imagine - a word that doesn't seem to fit into his lexicon.

 

[CoachFergie]

Now imagine there may be a simple cheap equipment change that could even further improve his 5min power at the same fitness level!

We will be sure to take your opinion into account when formulating his plan for 2012

 

[Oldman]

After much consideration I still don't understand what you are saying here. Could you try again?

People seemed to be blaming her position on equipment. The picture would indicate she doesn't know how to ride a bike, regardless of equipage.

 

[FrankDay]

People seemed to be blaming her position on equipment. The picture would indicate she doesn't know how to ride a bike, regardless of equipage.

I don't know why anyone would blame her position on equipment per se (except as noted below). Position is only dictated by the touch points, the pedals, saddle, and handlebars. What is in between those is irrelevant to the position. There has to be a reason she is positioned the way she is. Since none of us were part of that decision we cannot possibly know all that went into it but since she is the second best in the world in her chosen sport it would seem it hasn't hurt her too much even though all of us would look at her position and say she has to be leaving a lot of speed out on the course because of that position. Having said that she does have some pretty high powered people helping her so my guess is she isn't very flexible and being short (about 5') she can't get much lower without losing a lot of power or comfort because her sponsor doesn't make a crank shorter than 165. IMHO, she could do a lot better if she were to go to shorter cranks. Hopefully, she will try it this off season. We will see.

 

[veganrob]

People seemed to be blaming her position on equipment. The picture would indicate she doesn't know how to ride a bike, regardless of equipage.

You could be right. Dropping her heel so much makes her knee angle look real bad.

 

[fast_twitch]

This rider's knowledge of riding a bike is poor, even by triathelete comparisons. I don't think crank length has much to do with her choice in body position or tactical ability judging by that photo alone. The judgement is based on that alone, however.

It looks like she was readjusting her position just as the photo was taken. I am sure all of us are familiar with scooching around on the seat while partly standing on the pedals. I do this when in aero position and I am sure my position at that moment looks awkward.

I think judgement of ability/positioning should be reserved until one takes a look at some video or a sequential series of photos.

 

[sciguy]

It looks like she was readjusting her position just as the photo was taken. I am sure all of us are familiar with scooching around on the seat while partly standing on the pedals. I do this when in aero position and I am sure my position at that moment looks awkward.

I think judgement of ability/positioning should be reserved until one takes a look at some video or a sequential series of photos.

So take a look at a video and see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_Gn96MlYpuU

 

[fast_twitch]

So take a look at a video and see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_Gn96MlYpuU

Sitting here watching the video now. You all are correct! Seat too high, leg too extended, etc.

f_t

 

[danjo007]

100mm cranks??? are you racing a 16"BMX frank?

anyway - your OP is totally wrong. - what terminator said in post#5 is correct.

 

[FrankDay]

what terminator said in post#5 is correct.

Your evidence to support that statement?

edit: especially in view of this take on the subject http://sheldonbrown.com/gain.html

 

[Oldman]

100mm cranks??? are you racing a 16"BMX frank?

anyway - your OP is totally wrong. - what terminator said in post#5 is correct.

...you had to start him up again?

 

[onetrack]

gain ratio is the gold standard of bike gearing discussion. what we are dealing with is distance the pedal moves vs. distance the entire bike moves. so riding a bike with very short cranks in a very easy gear ratio can have the same gain ratio as a bike with standard cranks in a standard gear ratio. but think about the bike with the short cranks, as the pedal travels a given distance, it reaches the position where the most power can be added sooner than the longer crank.

it just so happens that endurance, aerodynamics, and comfort also improve.

 

[CoachFergie]

it just so happens that endurance, aerodynamics, and comfort also improve.

Your opinion has been duly noted.

 

[Oldman]

gain ratio is the gold standard of bike gearing discussion. what we are dealing with is distance the pedal moves vs. distance the entire bike moves. so riding a bike with very short cranks in a very easy gear ratio can have the same gain ratio as a bike with standard cranks in a standard gear ratio. but think about the bike with the short cranks, as the pedal travels a given distance, it reaches the position where the most power can be added sooner than the longer crank.
it just so happens that endurance, aerodynamics, and comfort also improve.

And the point is that with a shorter crank and larger gears that "position" becomes more defined, not less. A well-trained rider has a broader and smoother application of power. Does that apply to everyone? No? Does it apply to most good cyclists? Yes. The appropriately added leverage via longer cranks is unique to individual riders, in my experience but nothing either of you proponents have offerred for evidence supporting shorter cranks is convincing.