The King [Cav] is dead. Long live the King [Kittel].

[Tonton]

Meh, he lost by the smallest margin, after winning yesterday. He's not the dominant Cav of old, but he ain't "dead" either. Kittel/Greipel/Cav is (still) a toss-up, with so little difference between them that the edge comes down to lead-out more than anything else. And tactics. Cav got cocky today. Back in the day, he could out-sprint anybody, any which way, including at their own game. Now he needs to be smart.

You do realize Cav has never won a sprint against Drago?

Still, the difference is minimal. Kittel did nothing last year, where's he at? As strong as before? Stronger? We don't know. And maybe it's the Gorilla who's the king. We don't know. And they can't seem to be in top-shape at the same time.

 

[Jspear]

Well I think it's great to see so many top class sprinters.
It's so hard to tell who's going to win the stages, Cav isn't so dominant these days but he's far from dead.
Too hard to call this early in the season really

Yes and no. Cav isn't in top form, but neither is Kittel. It's safe to say that if things are like this now, it'll be the same in July.

 

[HelloDolly]

This is like Game of Thrones...no one knows who the true king is (yet) ...Is anyone of them or their missus in league with the fire god...that should sort it

 

[Tonton]

If you have the best train, great timing, stick to the plan (i,e, don't do anything stupid), the odds go way up. Right now, Cav has little or none of that. That's why, in my book, he's way overrated: welcome to the world of Nacer and the likes. How does it feel to be in Thor Hushovd's shoes? What are you going to do about it? IMO, Le Gros Marcel has everything going for him, but is he really better than the rest? The king? Probably. But then he poo-poos about MSR, becouse (Taxus-style) if he doesn't get dropped at the 300m after seating on a chair all day, he won't win. What does it say? Maybe Degenkolb is the king after all. Cav, Gros Marcel, Le Gorille, not many monuments there...call me old "in my time" nostalgic, but these Wuses are no Sercu, Freuler, Zabel, or De Vlaeminck. So specialized, they can't ride their bike in tough conditions like true champions and want the accolades. How many Rondes or PR? King, my @ss. None of these bozos deserve the title.

 

[Tonton]

Addendum: Cippo scared of the first MTF, Cav hanging on to cars for dear life, no king would do that. Given the choice, I'd rather be Jacky Durand and win a RVV big, or Duclos, or Museeuw, Gilbert, Canc, or King Boonen. But regardless, sprinting has become so specialized that everything has to come into place. Who's the best? Kittel, probably. King? No F.ing way. Imagine Kittel at the '80 LBL. Did not start. Same for Cav. Same for Greipel.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

I've given Cav the benefit of the doubt with changing teams, being at Sky (silly choice really) and seeming not to quite fit at QS. The one sprint I've seen so far looked promising, we was closing on Kittel after being fourth wheel.

The problem is he used to be able to win from pretty much anywhere between the front or tenth wheel and make it look easy in the process, no chance now. I think he needs to be either right on Kittels wheel or have a perfect leadout and even then he's going to have to be on top of his game to beat either Greipel or Kittel, if he even can.

It was when Kittel came off Cav's wheel in the 2013 Tour to take the win that I realised that he'd been dethroned. Yeah, he'd done the Giro, so it's understandable that he wasn't at his best, but still, before that point, Cav was pretty much unbeatable with a perfect leadout. Now I'm wondering whether Kittel would be able to come around a top form rested Cav with a perfect leadout

I'm pretty sure that Kittel coming from Cav's wheel or second wheel back could beat him if both are on form, any further and I'm not so sure. Cav's aerodynamics can still give him an edge coming from further back, but he does seem to have lost that kick.

 

[King Boonen]

Maybe Degenkolb is the king after all.

If we want to talk about truly entertaining, hardman sprinters, Degenkolb and Kristoff win it by a mile and duke it out for the top spot. I really, really, really hope Degenkolb, and the rest, return to their best after that accident.


It will be interesting to see how Kittels leadout fairs when it's up against the full WT. At the moment it looks great but QS haven't been brilliant at leadouts in recent times and it seems very dependent on the squad. To give Kittel the credit he deserves, he's come from what was probably the best or second best leadout into a team that doesn't really care that much about sprinters and looked like his dominant self, so he must be good at getting people on board and working with him.


I'm willing to give Cav the benefit of the doubt for another season, but I'm kind of hoping we see him try and mix it up in some big one day races.

 

[King Boonen]

Addendum: Cippo scared of the first MTF, Cav hanging on to cars for dear life, no king would do that. Given the choice, I'd rather be... King Boonen. ...

We can't all be me

 

[Akuryo]

Maybe Degenkolb is the king after all.

If we want to talk about truly entertaining, hardman sprinters, Degenkolb and Kristoff win it by a mile and duke it out for the top spot. I really, really, really hope Degenkolb, and the rest, return to their best after that accident.


It will be interesting to see how Kittels leadout fairs when it's up against the full WT. At the moment it looks great but QS haven't been brilliant at leadouts in recent times and it seems very dependent on the squad. To give Kittel the credit he deserves, he's come from what was probably the best or second best leadout into a team that doesn't really care that much about sprinters and looked like his dominant self, so he must be good at getting people on board and working with him.


I'm willing to give Cav the benefit of the doubt for another season, but I'm kind of hoping we see him try and mix it up in some big one day races.

While Quickstep certainly can't be compared to the quality of Giant, they still have decent guys on board. Sabatini and Richeze are experienced leadoutmen and Trentin is a winner of two TDF-stages on his own. He also holds the Ruban Jaune at the moment. So he's no slump either. And don't forget Tony Martin. He is still a powerhouse.

I said it on the main page when Kittel won the last stage: With Cavendish they started the leadout too soon every time. They would be at the front of the race with 6,7 or even 8 kilometers to go and try to stay there till the end. Almost never worked. Especially at WT-level. So Cav only won a bunch of "shitty small races". But now Kittel is in command at Etixx. And when do they start the leadout? At 2 or maximum 3 kilometers to go. So I think the reason they *** it up so often was because of Cavendishs orders. Or is it just a coincedence once they ride for Kittel they start later? 3 years with Cavendish and they rarely got it right. 2 stages with Kittel and both time they were at the front at the right time ... think about it.

 

[King Boonen]

That implies that Cav and everyone else during his tenure at QS couldn't work out how best to organise their leadout train and after a couple of stages in a SSR they are suddenly brilliant. Sorry, I don't buy into that at all.

 

[ray j willings]

Remember the days when Cav's lead out did not work and he still had so much gas that he would win anyway.
At times his turn of speed looked inhuman just incredible

 

[oevkride]

Re:

Pft.. Cav is not a simple sprinter, he is a potental Roubaix winner... :-O All hail the King!
http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/15264/10161987/mark-cavendish-can-win-paris-roubaix-says-ex-coach-brian-holm

he wouldn't even need to prepare specifically to win Paris-Roubaix.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

All Hail King Kristoff.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Pft.. Cav is not a simple sprinter, he is a potental Roubaix winner... :-O All hail the King!
http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/15264/10161987/mark-cavendish-can-win-paris-roubaix-says-ex-coach-brian-holm

he wouldn't even need to prepare specifically to win Paris-Roubaix.

Brian Holm sometimes says cringeworthy stuff. This is one of those times.

 

[Nick C.]

Re: Re:

Pft.. Cav is not a simple sprinter, he is a potental Roubaix winner... :-O All hail the King!
http://www.skysports.com/cycling/news/15264/10161987/mark-cavendish-can-win-paris-roubaix-says-ex-coach-brian-holm

he wouldn't even need to prepare specifically to win Paris-Roubaix.

Brian Holm sometimes says cringeworthy stuff. This is one of those times.

The logic was "if you can win MSR you can win Roubaix, Cav is great on the flat, Tom Steels was a sprinter and he once finished third and Eddy Planckaert was a sprinter and won"

 

[TMP402]

I would argue Cav has specifically trained this winter - don't forget the lap of the velodrome where his crucial track background will allow him to make up a ten minute gap.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Remember the days when Cav's lead out did not work and he still had so much gas that he would win anyway.
At times his turn of speed looked inhuman just incredible

That's true. All this talk about leadouts...Cav just doesn't have the speed he used to have. There was a time when Cav was so fast the leadout didn't matter much.

 

[Taxus4a]

For the moment the dead king is going to get a GC.

 

[Taxus4a]

Re: Re:

Remember the days when Cav's lead out did not work and he still had so much gas that he would win anyway.
At times his turn of speed looked inhuman just incredible

That's true. All this talk about leadouts...Cav just doesn't have the speed he used to have. There was a time when Cav was so fast the leadout didn't matter much.

IMO he is the same fast now.

 

[kirbygasm]

I'm intersted to see how Kittel will cope with Etixx being at the front all the time. Giant always stayed in the shadows up until the last few km unlike Etixx who like to lead, we will see how fit he really is against the likes of Greipel.

 

[blackcat]

If you have the best train, great timing, stick to the plan (i,e, don't do anything stupid), the odds go way up. Right now, Cav has little or none of that. That's why, in my book, he's way overrated: welcome to the world of Nacer and the likes. How does it feel to be in Thor Hushovd's shoes? What are you going to do about it? IMO, Le Gros Marcel has everything going for him, but is he really better than the rest? The king? Probably. But then he poo-poos about MSR, becouse (Taxus-style) if he doesn't get dropped at the 300m after seating on a chair all day, he won't win. What does it say? Maybe Degenkolb is the king after all. Cav, Gros Marcel, Le Gorille, not many monuments there...call me old "in my time" nostalgic, but these Wuses are no Sercu, Freuler, Zabel, or De Vlaeminck. So specialized, they can't ride their bike in tough conditions like true champions and want the accolades. How many Rondes or PR? King, my **. None of these bozos deserve the title.

always thought it would be Gerald Ciolek myself. he had serious speed. only a few inches slower than Cav. But he could have won Roubaix too like John Degenkolb...

him an Boasson Hagen, unfulfilled talents imo

Goss? meh

 

[PremierAndrew]

Seems to have lost a fair bit of speed, partly due to his track training

 

[Andre.J]

Cavendish died 2 years ago.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Remember the days when Cav's lead out did not work and he still had so much gas that he would win anyway.
At times his turn of speed looked inhuman just incredible

That's true. All this talk about leadouts...Cav just doesn't have the speed he used to have. There was a time when Cav was so fast the leadout didn't matter much.

IMO he is the same fast now.

Yes he is just as fast even though he's mostly coming 2nd and 3rd and way back in the sprints
Do you remember that time when Cav was unbeatable ? It was a long a long time ago.

 

[RedheadDane]

He's as fast as he's always been. It's just that some other, faster, guys have moved up in the ranks.