The latest metroplitan horror

[patricknd]

Everything you said has validated my point. You are aware of that, aren't you?

Laws now may not make a difference, though the mindset that has lead to the current, legal, situation, has obviously prooved disastrous. The firearm has never been commercialized to this degree, nor so sensationalized, nor so engrained in the culture.

Well then, we might as well avoid going to the cinema as much as Afghanistan. Too many people are being murdered by firearms, because there are too many firearms in circulation. Period. It is a simple statistical reality.

i think you've validated my point. it's the poor craftsman that blames his tools, and we're blaming the tools when we think that stiffer gun laws will heal the wounds. events like aurora are a smokescreen for the real problem of violence in this country. that was the work of one nut and we focus on that and ignore the elephant in the room. we can pass laws until we're blue in the face but until those born into grinding poverty have as a group something that remotely resembles a chance at a good education, decent meals, a safe street to live on and support from parents that aren't crack addicts if they're still alive and around, it will only grow worse.

 

[rhubroma]

i think you've validated my point. it's the poor craftsman that blames his tools, and we're blaming the tools when we think that stiffer gun laws will heal the wounds. events like aurora are a smokescreen for the real problem of violence in this country. that was the work of one nut and we focus on that and ignore the elephant in the room. we can pass laws until we're blue in the face but until those born into grinding poverty have as a group something that remotely resembles a chance at a good education, decent meals, a safe street to live on and support from parents that aren't crack addicts if they're still alive and around, it will only grow worse.

There is a not too subtle connection between 400,000,000 guns in circulation and more violence and deaths by firearms, is there not?

Where does one start to tackle the problem? A redistribution of wealth?

There is a perverse mechanism at work in the current system, for which the commercialization of "force multipliers" and a hyper-consumerist society has resulted in the nonchalant, and lethal, reality of equating buying a gun with a scarf, or a pair of shoes, or a gallon of milk, or box of cereal at the supermarket.

In due time Canada will wind up the same.

 

[Anonymous]

Your pretzel logic here is dumbfounding.

Well, maybe.

I believe pretzel logic suggests that the guns are the problem.

How many laws did this maniac break? You think a chicken **** gun law would have slowed him down?

We already outlaw murder. Why does it keep happening? Could it be that criminals and he deranged by definition disregard existing laws?

Nooooo. Can't be that.

 

[Altitude]

largely comprised of irresposible people? hell's bells, with 400 millions guns and a poulation largely comprised of irresponsible people it's a wonder there's anyone left. since i've never shot anyone am i one of the few, the proud, the responsible? can you give me a letter of recomendation based on that? i'm sure it will come in handy if i decide to refinance my house, or buy a gun.

Doesn't answer my question. I know this is really crazy , but yes, I am willing to go out on a limb and claim that a significant percentage of americans are irresponsible. Does irresponsible = murder? Obviously not, but I would be extremely uncomfortable if every person in this country owned an assault rifle. Wouldn't you?

 

[usedtobefast]

insane and sane shooters love these. don't own any guns myself,why? don't need one.

 

[broken chain]

Thats what happens when the liberals decide not to let parents and schools discipline the children.
Spare the rod and spoil the child.
100 million libs say,"give him therapy".
100 million conservatives say"put a 45 between his eyes"

 

[patricknd]

Doesn't answer my question. I know this is really crazy , but yes, I am willing to go out on a limb and claim that a significant percentage of americans are irresponsible. Does irresponsible = murder? Obviously not, but I would be extremely uncomfortable if every person in this country owned an assault rifle. Wouldn't you?

depends on their eyesight

on the serious side, define assault rifle. what you may call an assault rifle a rancher may call a varmint gun. the term is too broad. i know people that hunt with an ar-15, and they don't scare me in the least. put the same weapon in the hands of a crack dealer and obviously i wouldn't want to be around him. i target shoot with one and i've never shot up a theater, mall etc. so again, it's about the person. a longer waiting period to purchase wouldn't bother me at all, nor would a limit on the frequency of purchases. but again, i don't believe it would do much to curtail violence. chicago has been experiencing horrible murderous weekends this year. one interesting statistic that i heard is that knife murders have already (in july) equalled the total number for last year, so evidently even the less well armed are getting in on the act as well.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Do people think that legalisation of weapons arguments has a lot of similarities with the legalisation of some drugs in society? In Australia, many weapons were made illegal after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 which was even worse than this one in Colorado. It didn't really stop the problem. I guess it begs the question, do we just say, "legalisation hasn't really stopped problem" so just let people have them? Personally, I am for making them illegal because legalising option just seems like a form of giving up and because it continues to happen, doesn't necessarily mean that you should stop trying people from doing these things.

There would have to be a referendum on the bearing of weapons in America, wouldn't there be?

 

[mikeNphilly]

I own 8 guns(2 of what you guys would call assault rifles), and have around 800-1000 rounds of ammo, that I have purchased over the years, somehow I have not managed to go massacre a group of people, same as the other millions in the US that own many guns and do not go on a shooting spree. Do we have a straw purchase problem in America, yes we do...and it needs to be solved. A huge %, somewhere over 85% of guns that involved in crimes in NY, PA, NJ come from GA, VA, and sadly my home state of WV.

People getting guns illegally, and the social breakdowns(since this crazy fellow purchased his guns legally) that Race Radio pointed out are the problems in the country, at least on this issue..we have a many problems..lol

 

[auscyclefan94]

I own 8 guns(2 of what you guys would call assault rifles), and have around 800-1000 rounds of ammo, that I have purchased over the years, somehow I have not managed to go massacre a group of people, same as the other millions in the US that own many guns and do not go on a shooting spree. Do we have a straw purchase problem in America, yes we do...and it needs to be solved. A huge %, somewhere over 85% of guns that involved in crimes in NY, PA, NJ come from GA, VA, and sadly my home state of WV.

People getting guns illegally, and the social breakdowns(since this crazy fellow purchased his guns legally) that Race Radio pointed out are the problems in the country, at least on this issue..we have a many problems..lol

Do you do any hunting or any other form of recreational shooting?

 

[mikeNphilly]

I hunt bear, deer(buck), turkey...when I get time during the year. I grew up with guns, I fired a .44 magnum when I was 5 or 6 and learned to shoot with a .22 shooting through the spout of a milk bottle at 100 yards.. Most of the people where I grew up hunt, surprising to me was the number of people in Philly that hunt, I assumed in a big city not many people would engage in that, but in living here 17 years I have met alot of people that hunt.

 

[Parera]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/sadly-nation-knows-exactly-how-colorado-shootings,28857/

Sadly, that sums up my feelings on this awful event...

 

[rhubroma]

Well, maybe.

I believe pretzel logic suggests that the guns are the problem.

How many laws did this maniac break? You think a chicken **** gun law would have slowed him down?

We already outlaw murder. Why does it keep happening? Could it be that criminals and he deranged by definition disregard existing laws?

Nooooo. Can't be that.

I do. Look, Scott, someone like Holmes capacity to strike like he did is greatly reduced, if not neutralized, if he can't just simply go down to the corner store and purchase an arsenal of which Rambo would be envious.

There is a difference between something as uncivilized and barbaric as this, namely anyone being able to go down to the corner store and arm yourself to the teeth, and having civilized severe regulations in place to at least make it real difficult for such mad men to carry out their plans, if not protect society from them.

The State should be fighting against organized crime and black markets with respect to the devastation weapons can reek upon society, not society itself. America exaggerates in maintaining a private right with all too easy acsess at the expense of its own public security.

But, hey, as I said before, keep on believing what the NRA says and then wait for the next slaughter, and the one after that, and the one after that, etc. Though perhaps you are right, taking guns off the streets may mean nothing if American culture itself doesn't find new ways to cope with the American way of life other than extinguish games. Although if citizens rose up and voiced their united support for eliminating most of the guns, then maybe something in the American psyche will have actually changed for the better. You can't have nearly half a billion weapons in private posession, little controls and a prevailing Far West, shoot-em-up ot the O.K. Corall mentality and consider contemporary US society to be civil.

The Frontier saga is long since over, Scott, yet the cult of guns remains. Nearly half a billion private firearms have stuffed the racks, closets, bureaus and drawers of America. That's almost two for every citizen, even the new born: a veritable cowboys parody in the style of Kurt Vonnegut, performed by a band of obtuse or criminal old men who point the barrels of their guns toward the unknown silhouette on the prairie and who defend as God-given right their countrymen’s unquestioned ability to keep their fingers on the trigger; led by lobbies so powerful that no administration, Obama's included, dares to put a brake on this incessant private arms race in America.

Lastly America, you know, isn't the only country to have outlawed murder. Last time I checked so has France, Spain, Belgium, Britain, Italy, Holland, Germany, etc. But why is it that the US has the most lax regulations in terms of purchasing firearms and it is the murder capital of the Western World? Are you so warped in your thinking, so blinded by ideology, to not see that this is because there are far too many guns in circulation in a country that, furthermore, already has serious issues with street violence?

You have already answered the question, thus I may conclude that you are in fact so warped in your thinking and blinded by ideology so as to not see that this is because there are far too many guns in circulation in a country, furthermore, that already has serious issues with street violence. Given that the murder rates have always been ridiculously high for the past several decades and gun purchase have been increasing, the NRA's argument that being armed is an effective deterrent against being assaulted with a firearm is a load of spurious BS connected to a most vapid ideology. In fact quite the opposite is true, the countries with the strictest gun regulations have the lowest pro capita death rates by firearms. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why, though I'm sure you will respond with another pretzel logic scenario that makes any attempt at reasoned thinking with you impossible.

 

[Parera]

http://www.nydailynews.com/rep-loui...hooting-spurred-telling-god-article-1.1119282

Apparently it took less than 48 hours to hit the "conservative public figure makes unbelievably insensitive comment about the shooting" phase.

 

[Hotbrakes]

If you look at similar shootings in the US over the last 15 years, it reminds me of that movie" Revenge of the Nerds". Young delusional adults with no criminal history have the ability to access all kinds of weapons. I would more scared of the kid being bullied at school, than the drug dealer or career criminal down the street. Not a gun fan, but do understand that this is a very complex issue, that will only be resolved with a combination of intelligent public debate and a whole lot of time.

 

[Anonymous]

I do. Look, Scott, someone like Holmes capacity to strike like he did is greatly reduced, if not neutralized, if he can't just simply go down to the corner store and purchase an arsenal of which Rambo would be envious.

There is a difference between something as uncivilized and barbaric as this, namely anyone being able to go down to the corner store and arm yourself to the teeth, and having civilized severe regulations in place to at least make it real difficult for such mad men to carry out their plans, if not protect society from them.

The State should be fighting against organized crime and black markets with respect to the devastation weapons can reek upon society, not society itself. America exaggerates in maintaining a private right with all too easy acsess at the expense of its own public security.

But, hey, as I said before, keep on believing what the NRA says and then wait for the next slaughter, and the one after that, and the one after that, etc. Though perhaps you are right, taking guns off the streets may mean nothing if American culture itself doesn't find new ways to cope with the American way of life other than extinguish games. Although if citizens rose up and voiced their united support for eliminating most of the guns, then maybe something in the American psyche will have actually changed for the better. You can't have nearly half a billion weapons in private posession, little controls and a prevailing Far West, shoot-em-up ot the O.K. Corall mentality and consider contemporary US society to be civil.

The Frontier saga is long since over, Scott, yet the cult of guns remains. Nearly half a billion private firearms have stuffed the racks, closets, bureaus and drawers of America. That's almost two for every citizen, even the new born: a veritable cowboys parody in the style of Kurt Vonnegut, performed by a band of obtuse or criminal old men who point the barrels of their guns toward the unknown silhouette on the prairie and who defend as God-given right their countrymen’s unquestioned ability to keep their fingers on the trigger; led by lobbies so powerful that no administration, Obama's included, dares to put a brake on this incessant private arms race in America.

Lastly America, you know, isn't the only country to have outlawed murder. Last time I checked so has France, Spain, Belgium, Britain, Italy, Holland, Germany, etc. But why is it that the US has the most lax regulations in terms of purchasing firearms and it is the murder capital of the Western World? Are you so warped in your thinking, so blinded by ideology, to not see that this is because there are far too many guns in circulation in a country that, furthermore, already has serious issues with street violence?

You have already answered the question, thus I may conclude that you are in fact so warped in your thinking and blinded by ideology so as to not see that this is because there are far too many guns in circulation in a country, furthermore, that already has serious issues with street violence. Given that the murder rates have always been ridiculously high for the past several decades and gun purchase have been increasing, the NRA's argument that being armed is an effective deterrent against being assaulted with a firearm is a load of spurious BS connected to a most vapid ideology. In fact quite the opposite is true, the countries with the strictest gun regulations have the lowest pro capita death rates by firearms. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why, though I'm sure you will respond with another pretzel logic scenario that makes any attempt at reasoned thinking with you impossible.

This is not our first rodeo is it Rhub?

I have found odd, coming from an educator, the lengths you will go to denigrate an opinion that opposes yours. It smacks of a lack of confidence, but who knows?

Anyways, I am not a member of the NRA. I don't own a gun. So you can stop with that characterization because your assumptions are, once again, betraying you.

As I said before, you are in with a big crowd. One who's reaction is wholly predictable when events like this occur. Car accident with a SUV involved? It's the SUV's fault. Nutter shoots a group of people, it's the guns fault.

I would think you would be able to deduce that a gun is, at the end of the day, an inanimate object. Maybe, just this once, you could assign blame where it belongs?

Nah, I didn't think so.

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.nydailynews.com/rep-loui...hooting-spurred-telling-god-article-1.1119282

Apparently it took less than 48 hours to hit the "conservative public figure makes unbelievably insensitive comment about the shooting" phase.

Yeah. Our wonderful elected officials lining up to try and feel important. Pretty sad.

Don't forget the lib ABC within a few minutes announcing the perp to be a member of the tea party.

More than enough stupidity to go around.

 

[Boeing]

This is not our first rodeo is it Rhub?

I have found odd, coming from an educator, the lengths you will go to denigrate an opinion that opposes yours. It smacks of a lack of confidence, but who knows?

Anyways, I am not a member of the NRA. I don't own a gun. So you can stop with that characterization because your assumptions are, once again, betraying you.

As I said before, you are in with a big crowd. One who's reaction is wholly predictable when events like this occur. Car accident with a SUV involved? It's the SUV's fault. Nutter shoots a group of people, it's the guns fault.

I would think you would be able to deduce that a gun is, at the end of the day, an inanimate object. Maybe, just this once, you could assign blame where it belongs?

Nah, I didn't think so.

Scotts simple default into black and white moral arguments is amusing in the least and like fox news a vague moral agenda is indefeasible and an easy way to say "i win" all the damn time

 

[Anonymous]

Scotts simple default into black and white moral arguments is amusing in the least and like fox news a vague moral agenda is indefeasible and an easy way to say "i win" all the damn time

Not black and white.

Meanwhile, the Aurora police suggest the perp has been planning this "for months".

http://news.yahoo.com/police-colo-suspect-planned-massacre-months-033025968.html

So tell me, what sort of gun law restrictions would have prevented this? Let's pretend guns are outlawed outright. Does this perp strike you as someone who will obey that law?

Dude booby trapped his apartment elaborately. You guys act as if this guy just got a wild hair and went to the corner gun store because he had nothing better to do than to blow away a bunch of innocent bystanders.

All additional guns laws will do is make you guys feel better, oh and keep guns out of the hands of the law abiding.

Lots of guns are outlawed in California and yet Californians still have them. Can you believe it? People, particularly criminals, actually break laws.

Perhaps we should be discussing the criminality? Maybe place blame where it belongs?

At any rate, you guys have at it. I'm out of this one.

 

[broken chain]

Social rejects like this one are raised with no fear of consequences.
You can try to reason with someone for ten years and they won't listen to a word you say.But if you take a good size coal shovel upside their head you would be amazed at how fast you can gain their undivided attention.
I went to high school with 4000 other students,worst violence I can remember is a good ole fistfight in the basement.
After we were done,it was over and sometimes even were able to get along after that.
Americans have become desensitized to violence.
Its plastered all over T.V.,the movies and in video games.
Add in that parenting skills and their responsibility for their children have gone by the wayside.
A great portion of kids are latch key kids who have both parents working.
A portion have neither parent working or a single parent(I.E. welfare)who could give a s**t less how their kids are reared as long as they can make that monthly check bigger.Dems like welfare,it gets them votes from the indigent.
Adding all that together,there is only one answer.
And we wonder why people like this pop up????

 

[rhubroma]

This is not our first rodeo is it Rhub?

I have found odd, coming from an educator, the lengths you will go to denigrate an opinion that opposes yours. It smacks of a lack of confidence, but who knows?

Anyways, I am not a member of the NRA. I don't own a gun. So you can stop with that characterization because your assumptions are, once again, betraying you.

As I said before, you are in with a big crowd. One who's reaction is wholly predictable when events like this occur. Car accident with a SUV involved? It's the SUV's fault. Nutter shoots a group of people, it's the guns fault.

I would think you would be able to deduce that a gun is, at the end of the day, an inanimate object. Maybe, just this once, you could assign blame where it belongs?

Nah, I didn't think so.

These mocking responses are your only weapon, Scott.

One of course can't blame guns for the murderous acts caused by them anymore than we can blame an SUV for the car accident, however, we should reflect upon the nature and purpose of both. This is a not too subtle difference which even your curious and insolent reasoning I think can possibly overlook. Reason, moreover, should allow us to deduce that the more cars we have on the road, the more accidents there will be; just as the more guns in circulation we have, the more murders by firearms there will be. Given the purpose of the latter it is obvious, therefore, that in the civilized world where a Far West mentality doesn't exist, access to their posession is strictly regulated. And the death tolls caused by guns are infinitely smaller than in the US.

There exists a connection between the hyper-commercialization of firearms and the culture of violence in America. All of this should cause sane reflection, without ideology getting in the way.

 

[VeloCity]

Maybe place blame where it belongs?

Sure. Let's start with the shooter. Then let's move on to the lawmakers - conservatives, mostly - who don't give a crap how many people have to die, just don't touch our guns. Then let's move on to the NRA.

 

[biokemguy]

First line of 2nd amendment

Why is it always ignored, the part about a well regulated militia?

Because any regulation is evil if it hurts someones ability to satisfy their greed perhaps?

 

[rhubroma]

Sure. Let's start with the shooter. Then let's move on to the lawmakers - conservatives, mostly - who don't give a crap how many people have to die, just don't touch our guns. Then let's move on to the NRA.

But guns are inanimate objects, and business is business you see.

 

[woodie]

The question I always want to ask is.....

Why does anyone need a gun?