Teams & Riders The marvelous Victor Campenaerts, cult hero, thread

[motty89]

I've been cycle touring in Peru going ver passes circa 4800m and sleeping at similar altitudes and felt super strong when I got back! The advantage a tent provides is that you can sleep 'high' and train low at a higher intensity. Best of both worlds.

 

[Berflamand]

isnt that dangerous?

According to himself it's not because when you feel you're getting in trouble you can put off the mask at any time. But I have no idea if this is healthy or if it could have unwanted side effects.

 

[Bonimenier]

Shouldn't this be forbidden? I have no problem with riders sleeping in altitude tents on existing heights like Campenaerts did a few weeks back on 4700m. That's just fair considering there are riders, like the Colombians, who actually live close to that altitude. But 10000m is an non-existing height and does feel a bit too artificial to my liking.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That's a bit my view on it as well. If you can realistically train/sleep on such an altitude, it should be allowed. When you can manipulate it into "space territory" and it becomes just as unnatural as taking EPO... clearly there need to be some regulations.

 

[memyselfandI]

"If it takes ten to kill me, I'll take nine and win" -Tom Simpson.

 

[Jagartrott]

He is not doing that on his intuition, he is getting advice from medical professionals. The intermittent nature stimulates faster red blood cell production. His training load during these altitude camps is extremely low as well, for optimal results.

That said, yes, this is extreme. There need to be some rules on what is allowed and what is not regarding altitude training, real and artificial.

 

[memyselfandI]

Max height Mt Everest level. Place where one can go with his/her own two feet (trainer and training bike in a rug sack..) in this planet. Simple. All altitude chamber hardware manufacturers sign an agreement to calibrate units this way. Then it's equal for everybody.

 

[Red Rick]

He is not doing that on his intuition, he is getting advice from medical professionals. The intermittent nature stimulates faster red blood cell production. His training load during these altitude camps is extremely low as well, for optimal results.

That said, yes, this is extreme. There need to be some rules on what is allowed and what is not regarding altitude training, real and artificial.

Why? How are you gonna enforce it?

 

[BlueRoads]

Campenaerts: “Vielleicht war Giro-Zeitfahren mein letztes Rennen“ | radsport-news.com

www.radsport-news.com

google translation:
Hour record holder worries about his future
Campenaerts: "Maybe the Giro time trial was my last race"
With his second place in the time trial of Milan, Victor Campenaerts (NTT) ended the Giro d’Italia with a sense of achievement. But the hour record holder still does not know what will happen to him professionally. "At the moment I have nothing specific for the next season, not even offers on lower terms," Campenaerts told the TV broadcaster Sporza. The Belgian is still under contract with the South African racing team until the end of 2022. But after the announced withdrawal of the main sponsor, it is questionable whether team manager Bjarne Riis will be able to save the team. The Dane is trying to find a successor, but the signs of dissolution are unmistakable, as the recent changes from Ben O’Connor (to AG2R Citroen) and Ryan Gibbons (to UAE Emirates) make clear. “My future is causing me a lot of stress right now. I don't want to think negatively, but maybe yesterday's time trial was my last appearance as a professional cyclist, ”said the 29-year-old Campenaerts, who only joined NTT for the 2020 season and who, like many other professionals, faces a bleak future. A return to Belgium at least seems unlikely for the former Lotto Soudal professional. Campenaerts said it had asked Alpecin - Fenix a few weeks ago, but received a negative answer.

Tough to read. I don't know what his demands are, but I find it very sad that a rider of that quality has problems to get a decent offer. I suppose with CCC and NTT folding and other teams in big trouble as well some teams are waiting until riders like him are desperate to accept a lower offer.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Tough to read. I don't know what his demands are, but I find it very sad that a rider of that quality has problems to get a decent offer. I suppose with CCC and NTT folding and other teams in big trouble as well some teams are waiting until riders like him are desperate to accept a lower offer.

Don't know exactly what his demands are either, but he said in the original article that he proposed a cut in wages when he spoke to other teams, but he didn't get a positive response regardless. So he's definitely not expecting other teams to match his current contract.
On Eurosport yesterday, Jeroen Van Belleghem (the Belgian commentator) did say it seemed like there would be a solution for the team because he had heard the employees of the team (not the riders) already got a contract extension.

 

[Roku]

I don't like Campenaerts, but if he is willing to take a large paycut I can't see how he couldn't be apealling to many PCT Belgian teams

 

[laarsland]

Perhaps going balls out in the media talking about extreme altitude simulation is viewed negatively by prospective employers....

 

[Red Rick]

Perhaps going balls out in the media talking about extreme altitude simulation is viewed negatively by prospective employers....

Find it very hard to believe it is that off putting that a top 10 ITTer in the world and all around very useful rider wouldn't be able to get a contract because of this DESPITE willing to take pay cuts.

Perhaps Campenaerts is a guy that's pretty stubborn in his own ways and thus sort of has a limited selection of teams he'd like to go to or has certain demands of preparing on his own that hamper his chances, but I doubt the altitude tent is the main problem.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Coming from a recent podcast on Sporza, even when Campenaerts pushes 40 watts less than De Gendt, he still was faster in most ITT's they faced each other. I remember from the world hour record, that he pushed 100 watts less than Wiggins, and comfortably beat Wiggins' time. Mostly due to aerodynamics.

https://sporza.be/nl/2020/11/11/-co...een-meervoudige-wereldkampioen~1605102163171/

I remember a comment by Dries De Bondt, who said he had to push 100 watts more when he was riding in the wheel of Evenepoel, compared to when he was riding behind a bigger guy like Wallays. Those are massive differences just due to size and aerodynamics (Campenaerts 1m73 and Evenepoel 1m71) are both rather short.

 

[Berflamand]

Coming from a recent podcast on Sporza, even when Campenaerts pushes 40 watts more than De Gendt, he still was faster in most ITT's they faced each other. I remember from the world hour record, that he pushed 100 watts less than Wiggins, and comfortably beat Wiggins' time. Mostly due to aerodynamics.

https://sporza.be/nl/2020/11/11/-co...een-meervoudige-wereldkampioen~1605102163171/

I remember a comment by Dries De Bondt, who said he had to push 100 watts more when he was riding in the wheel of Evenepoel, compared to when he was riding behind a bigger guy like Wallays. Those are massive differences just due to size and aerodynamics (Campenaerts 1m73 and Evenepoel 1m71) are both rather short.

I think you meant to say even when Campenaerts pushes 40 watts less than De Gendt.

But yeah I am amazed that differences in aerodynamics between the top riders can be so big and that it can have such a huge difference in watts.

Evenepoel is probably even more aerodynamic than Campenaerts remembering his ride in the Tour of Belgium where Campenaerts struggled to just hold his wheel.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think you meant to say even when Campenaerts pushes 40 watts less than De Gendt.

But yeah I am amazed that differences in aerodynamics between the top riders can be so big and that it can have such a huge difference in watts.

Evenepoel is probably even more aerodynamic than Campenaerts remembering his ride in the Tour of Belgium where Campenaerts struggled to just hold his wheel.

Yes, less obviously

 

[Red Rick]

I think you meant to say even when Campenaerts pushes 40 watts less than De Gendt.

But yeah I am amazed that differences in aerodynamics between the top riders can be so big and that it can have such a huge difference in watts.

Evenepoel is probably even more aerodynamic than Campenaerts remembering his ride in the Tour of Belgium where Campenaerts struggled to just hold his wheel.

Yes, less obviously

I mean it all depends on body dimensions, not just having a pure TT position. De Gendt is 5cm taller than Campenaerts. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Sagan did huge watts in a TT but he seems like one of the least aero guys in the bunch.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I think you meant to say even when Campenaerts pushes 40 watts less than De Gendt.

I hope he meant to say 40 Watts fewer [/pedant]

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I mean it all depends on body dimensions, not just having a pure TT position. De Gendt is 5cm taller than Campenaerts. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like Sagan did huge watts in a TT but he seems like one of the least aero guys in the bunch.

Your size automatically impacts your cda, which in combination with your weight is a big factor usually overlooked when watts rule the conversation. Being small + having an aero position means very little drag. Being small also usually means low weight. If you are then able to push relatively big watts... In the Containercup, neither Evenepoel nor Campenaerts came close to pushing what van Aert or even van der Poel pushed.

What i find most interesting is that it seems so difficult for other short/light(er) guys (i mean climbers) to be good at TT. In that case it would have to come down to bikeposition (aero position) or watts. But those guys should also be able to put out big watts relative to their size/weight, or they would be bad climbers as well. Bernal is the same height as Campenaerts, and i think he can put out at least the same watts as Campenaerts, then why doesn't he do better in ITT's? In that case either his physical build isn't that aerodynamic, or his position on the bike isn't good, which can be trained.

 

[Eeslliw]

Coming from a recent podcast on Sporza, even when Campenaerts pushes 40 watts less than De Gendt, he still was faster in most ITT's they faced each other. I remember from the world hour record, that he pushed 100 watts less than Wiggins, and comfortably beat Wiggins' time. Mostly due to aerodynamics.

Are you sure about that? It seems too much. I know Wiggins was bigger guy, but still, 100 watts is extreme.

 

[Red Rick]

Are you sure about that? It seems too much. I know Wiggins was bigger guy, but still, 100 watts is extreme.

Wiggins is like 20cm taller, and Wiggins WR was at sea level.

 

[Red Rick]

Your size automatically impacts your cda, which in combination with your weight is a big factor usually overlooked when watts rule the conversation. Being small + having an aero position means very little drag. Being small also usually means low weight. If you are then able to push relatively big watts... In the Containercup, neither Evenepoel nor Campenaerts came close to pushing what van Aert or even van der Poel pushed.

What i find most interesting is that it seems so difficult for other short/light(er) guys (i mean climbers) to be good at TT. In that case it would have to come down to bikeposition (aero position) or watts. But those guys should also be able to put out big watts relative to their size/weight, or they would be bad climbers as well. Bernal is the same height as Campenaerts, and i think he can put out at least the same watts as Campenaerts, then why doesn't he do better in ITT's? In that case either his physical build isn't that aerodynamic, or his position on the bike isn't good, which can be trained.

Well TTing is mostly about W/cda, with cda roughly being in line with the square of height, whereas weight is more in line with the cube of height. Then there's an element of the watts riders can put out specifically in TT position compared to normal. We normally don't get data for this, but some Jumbo DS said Roglic did 5.4W/kg in his Vuelta ITT last year and he did 5.7W/kg this year before PdBF. This is at low altitude, but with some descending/cornering which will depress the average W, but it's still considerably lower than the W/kg on the climbs especially seeing as those climbs are at much higher altitude.

And it's not trivial to just train it. It does require a certain amount of agility, and there's different muscle reqruitement as well especially for riders who's normal position is quite straight up. Purito for example is one of those guys who had a very straight up position on the bike when climbing so it's probably much harder for him to sit in a very aero position an crank the W/kg out.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well TTing is mostly about W/cda, with cda roughly being in line with the square of height, whereas weight is more in line with the cube of height. Then there's an element of the watts riders can put out specifically in TT position compared to normal. We normally don't get data for this, but some Jumbo DS said Roglic did 5.4W/kg in his Vuelta ITT last year and he did 5.7W/kg this year before PdBF. This is at low altitude, but with some descending/cornering which will depress the average W, but it's still considerably lower than the W/kg on the climbs especially seeing as those climbs are at much higher altitude.

And it's not trivial to just train it. It does require a certain amount of agility, and there's different muscle reqruitement as well especially for riders who's normal position is quite straight up. Purito for example is one of those guys who had a very straight up position on the bike when climbing so it's probably much harder for him to sit in a very aero position an crank the W/kg out.

Yeah, i know you can't put out the same watts in the most aero position and that being agile and nimble is a plus, but it is something you can train to a certain extent. I mean, it can't be that all people born in South America are physically predetermined to be unable to touch their own toes without bending their knees. I know Evenepoel's former coach stressed him being very nimble really helped in assuming his TT position (though if you google images* of him on his TT bike, you can see he also changed his position after joining DQT, assuming a less aero position, higher braces, likely to push bigger numbers), can't remember any specific stories about Campenaerts or van Aert, Dennis, Ganna... being abnormally flexible.

*before: click
*after: click

 

[tobydawq]

Ha, he is going to ride Paris-Nice because he heard Ganna would do Tirreno. There's some honesty.

 

[MADRAZO]

Ha, he is going to ride Paris-Nice because he heard Ganna would do Tirreno. There's some honesty.

Both honest and smart!