The Mike Anderson story

[Velodude]

LA has no mediating ground between class nothingness and corporate directives. This much is numbingly clear. Did Mike occupy a similar pole of naievte? Seems so. Nothing said here changes the face of cycling, legal machinations, nor anyone's take on LA. Pro or con. Which Fred suit is going to moved by this?

Mike is having his 15 minutes of reality

Outside Magazine must have believed MA would infuse some personal reality into the picture to publish his story.

OM are in the game to make bucks.

 

[python]

I think what it shows is that the testing protocols let athletes get away with too much chicanery.[/ If Floyd were making up his story to make Lance look bad, I see no reason why he would not connect his story to Lance in some form or fashion ("I learned it from you, Dad"). That he didn't means he is either far more subtle than I think he is or he is telling the truth.

this has avoided my simple question. i did not ask about the generalities of the testing system flaws (please feel free to raise the question in one of the appropriate threads). i asked the specific question - if YOU (as in YOU) believe armstrong was guilty of avoiding testers ? again, i focus you, i did not ask about the system flaws.

Mike Anderson probably wasn't in the best position to fully understand what was going on, but it seems that he picked up the gist of it.

i don't agree. also you are downplaying (to be civil with words) mike's intelligence and wit . if, as you said above, mike is telling the truth, you need to agree he was up to the armstrong shenanigans.

Lance was trying to duck the testers

that's all that usada was looking for in the doping case. but somehow you managed to come up with a list of 'points' to throw stones at the party that concerns itself with finding the fraudulent avoidance.

The strategy employed seems pathetic to me, but, then again, the guy managed to dope throughout his entire career without ever being popped for a positive test.

several reasons for that. one, uci corruption. two, the anti-doping system fairness allowing the cheats to exploit 3 non-shows/missed tests withing 18 months. three, sophisticated masking (a separate subject) etc etc

Mike Anderson's story confirms that there are some problems with relying on a testing regime to catch the dopers.

an absolutely irrelevant observation for the thread. that's why i welcome mike (and the others) talking and helping to overcome the problems with providing non-analytical evidence to nail the cheats.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

@KayLow,

Why have you chosen to ignore all the references Mike made to Armstong seeing Ferrari on the quiet, as well as the story of the test dodge when forming your conclusion that Mike "saw and heard very little"? Kinda important dontchya think?

I totally disagree that the personality aspects are irrelevant, or that raising them plays into Armstrongs strategy of making the action against Armstrong appear personal. The legal or anti doping action relates to the specific crimes or anti doping violations. But as a society, we choose to forgive and give second chances to those who we believe have the potential to reform.

Many fanboys seem entrenched in the opinion that Armstrong is a nice guy, who has done a lot of good and was only doping cause everyone was doing it, so he should be forgiven. In fact, Armstrong is a very nasty guy, who has done a lot to profit massively from the livestrong brand and is an unrepentant, unrelenting liar. He has not done one thing to earn forgiveness or a second chance, and people really need to know that or he will continue to profit from their gullibility.

 

[Turner29]

Anderson's legal document legal document is interesting in several ways. First, it clearly shows Armstrong's sociopathic nature, as demonstrated by Armstrong's frequent and outrageous Jekyll and Hyde behavior. Such is typical of sociopaths, along with lacking empathy, narcissism and blaming others for their own failures.

Second, the level of detail is such that it makes for compelling evidence, as evidence is in the details and Anderson's account of finding the steroids and Armstrong's subsequent actions is quite detailed. His reference to an email by Armstrong that references Dr. Ferrari (by code name) is quite compelling.

A dozen more such witnesses would easily convict, at least to a jury not star-struck.

 

[ggusta]

As usual, the lancebots comments are comedy gold. Not sure if they could miss the point more if they tried. Ready, Fire, Aim. Aim is optional.

They could have a video of Lance saying 'Hi, I'm Lance Armstrong and this liquid is an illegal substance that makes me go really fast.' And then he injects it. It would make no difference. Other than they might love him even more if it's possible. They're fully committed to throwing good 'emotional/psychic' capital after bad. Too big to fail in their little world.

 

[ggusta]

Outside Magazine must have believed MA would infuse some personal reality into the picture to publish his story.

OM are in the game to make bucks.

I had a co-worker come up to me today (because the whole office knows how I love cycling and also how I am enjoying the deconstructing of the false idol) and reference some Anderson guy and I had no clue about the article yet and I was like 'You mean Hamilton?' He was like yeah, him.

Point being, the entire Lance story is spreading faster through the general culture than either the 'haters' (me, us) and LanceBots (aphro) can have any influence on. The smoke has caught fire and it's REALLY spreading now. Fast.

 

[aphronesis]

Outside Magazine must have believed MA would infuse some personal reality into the picture to publish his story.

OM are in the game to make bucks.

The, uh, media picture vd? Outside are only a chaste version of most media weathervaning.

Your point?

 

[Velodude]

The, uh, media picture vd? Outside are only a chaste version of most media weathervaning.

Your point?

Still have not regurgitated that dictionary you swallowed?

 

[aphronesis]

Still have not regurgitated that dictionary you swallowed?

Still can't answer a question that requires you to think w/o daily facts?

 

[DirtyWorks]

As usual, the lancebots comments are comedy gold. Not sure if they could miss the point more if they tried. Ready, Fire, Aim. Aim is optional.

They could have a video of Lance saying 'Hi, I'm Lance Armstrong and this liquid is an illegal substance that makes me go really fast.' And then he injects it. It would make no difference. Other than they might love him even more if it's possible. They're fully committed to throwing good 'emotional/psychic' capital after bad. Too big to fail in their little world.

Youtube almost has that video already. Almost.

As I've posted before, in order for the myth to thrive, it has to grow. We are into the most ridiculous growth phase right now. Ex. Phil's Boulder Conspiracy.

The story finally got institutional validation with USADA. As long as the anti-doping faction sticks to the facts and Lance doesn't change it's all bad news for the myth.

 

[MarkvW]

Touching as this is, I'm not sure that Mike would have found life in academia to be more salutory.

I believe the word you intended to use was 'salutary.'

 

[JA.Tri]

I agree. To be fair to Mike, he said at the outset that all his evidence of doping was circumstantial,...snip ....brevity
.....

I hope Mike has found some peace in NZ, and that Outside paid him well for the story. For me at least, his naivete in not getting the bike shop deal in writing actually enhances his credibility. He comes across as too nice of a guy, someone who is overly-generous with his time and energy, and easily taken advantage of by others. In my experience, people like that do not make up nasty things about others.

Concur with post.

On bike shop deal... a word and a handshake at one time was more than enough to seal a deal.

I guess the outcome really depends on the ethics of the individuals involved...sometimes an iron clad signed contract does not guarantee the specified outcome.

Kudos Mike!

 

[aphronesis]

I believe the word you intended to use was 'salutary.'

No, I meant as written. I wasn't looking for the office park version.

 

[sittingbison]

Mike only references the doping aspects, such as Ferrari and the OOC dodge rather than exploring them in depth on purpose. They are incidental to but are not the actual story, which is Lances methodology and behaviour towards associates/friends.

I am sure Novitzky would have been more interested in the incidents than Lances behaviour.

BTW Lances behaviour is very relevant to the doping scandal, which is an overall picture of lies, deception, misdirection, threats, intimidation - not a failed test.

BTW x2, Lance is not a sociopath, aphro has kindly pointed out in another thread sociopath and rational behaviour are indistinguishable.

 

[MarkvW]

No, I meant as written. I wasn't looking for the office park version.

I think you meant to say that you meant to use a word that isn't in the dictionary.

 

[ElChingon]

What I hate about all these stories is they all have the same beginning. Buddies, business partners, lovers, etc.

Where are the "we never got on" from day one or first meeting? Or I never bought his BS. Sure those of us who have never met him but what about those involved in cycling, not one rider who declined a USPS/Disco contract just because he was on the team? I mean he's such an A.H. no one figured that out from day one? Does he have such a great opening line that he hooks everyone on first meeting?

 

[darkcloud]

TexPat

Nice article. Well done TexPat.

TexPat, thank you for telling your story. Working for a stooge like Lancelot must have really sucked. What a D I C K.

 

[Cavalier]

Wait, you seriously think that people Lance didn't get on with from day one would be employed by him, or have continual personal access to him?

Can I have some of those pink ponies you're keeping?

 

[Turner29]

What I hate about all these stories is they all have the same beginning. Buddies, business partners, lovers, etc.

Where are the "we never got on" from day one or first meeting? Or I never bought his BS. Sure those of us who have never met him but what about those involved in cycling, not one rider who declined a USPS/Disco contract just because he was on the team? I mean he's such an A.H. no one figured that out from day one? Does he have such a great opening line that he hooks everyone on first meeting?

Sociopaths are typically very charming at the beginning of any relatiobship, be it business, social or romantic.

 

[sittingbison]

...he's such an A.H. no one figured that out from day one? Does he have such a great opening line that he hooks everyone on first meeting?

EC, aphronesis has kindly pointed out Lance is not a sociopath because sociopath is indistinguishable to rational ergo et demonstratum Lance is a normal bloke with rational behaviour.

However if sociopath DID exist, and had the characteristics usually associated with it, and Lance WAS one aa assumed (until aphronesis set the record straight), then it is no surprise he initially butters people up. Because the first characteristic of sociopath is the ability to charm before imploding. They implode because deep rooted paranoia casts everyone as implacable enemies due to the slightest perceived betrayal. But as they are in extremis, the ability to charm is just as great as the certainty and violence of imploding.

EDIT: oops was ityping turner, didn't see your succinct reply %)

 

[KayLow]

@KayLow,

Why have you chosen to ignore all the references Mike made to Armstong seeing Ferrari on the quiet, as well as the story of the test dodge when forming your conclusion that Mike "saw and heard very little"? Kinda important dontchya think?

So you have convinced me on Armstrong ducking out on the test. That is a significant contribution elements of which can be independently confirmed by USADA. It also takes head on the claim that Armstrong's negative tests are strong support for his innocence.

Anderson does not explain what Armstrong said or did to keep Dr. Ferrari's visits "on the down-low" so it is difficult to evaluate how much this adds. In fairness, there is not much more that Anderson could say about Ferrari that would be much more damning than the already well-established fact that Armstrong was Ferrari's client.

 

[Stingray34]

Mike's a really decent guy. Would love to get over to NZ to shake his hand and go for a ride.

 

[silverrocket]

Concur with post.

On bike shop deal... a word and a handshake at one time was more than enough to seal a deal.

I guess the outcome really depends on the ethics of the individuals involved...sometimes an iron clad signed contract does not guarantee the specified outcome.

Kudos Mike!

In this case it was a handshake and their word, but also written in an e-mail. Anderson said he spent a bunch of money trying to retrieve the deleted e-mail from his hard-drive. Pity he could not.

 

[shojii]

Mike's a really decent guy. Would love to get over to NZ to shake his hand and go for a ride.

We're lucky to have him here in NZ. Organises a wicked cyclocross series and runs one of the best indy bikestores too. Chapeau, Kiwi Mike!

 

[Benotti69]

So you have convinced me on Armstrong ducking out on the test. That is a significant contribution elements of which can be independently confirmed by USADA. It also takes head on the claim that Armstrong's negative tests are strong support for his innocence.

Anderson does not explain what Armstrong said or did to keep Dr. Ferrari's visits "on the down-low" so it is difficult to evaluate how much this adds. In fairness, there is not much more that Anderson could say about Ferrari that would be much more damning than the already well-established fact that Armstrong was Ferrari's client.

Maybe Mike is not going to reveal exct details till later at a time of his own choosing.

I also think you are missing the point of the article, which is to paint a picture of someone who is charming and a great guy at first for whom you will give a lot of yourself too until you, in their mind, cross a line, then they turn on you and when they go after you they do it to cause maximum damage.