The Missing of Doping Tests (aka... pulling a Rasmussen)

[Libertine Seguros]

No he couldn't - he waived any right when he refused the offer to go to the hotel.
It was Pereiro's choice.

Just to clarify - the rights part I now assume is your position, not his.

OK, so what happens in the event that, say, the restaurant Pereiro was in was 300km away? He could easily be planning on a four hour drive afterward, having been in his house at the allotted time, visiting people. As it was, he was well within range for them to offer up an alternative location so the point is moot. But when they turn up to test him, he knows they're coming because they had to have discovered he was not at home and hence contacted him to propose the alternative location. In our hypothetical situation, Pereiro is about four hours' drive away from the testers (dependent on roads of course) and they've come to his house from 7 to 8pm.

Do the testers then have to accept defeat if Pereiro (just continuing to use his name, there is no longer any connection to the real Óscar Pereiro) is unwilling to accept an alternative location, since they won't be able to test him before 11pm, because either they must spend four hours driving to him or he must spend four hours driving to them? Or is Pereiro's hand then forced since if he doesn't find a way to have them test him before 11pm it goes down as a strike against his name?

 

[Mambo95]

Just away from cycling and the christine ohuruogu case where she missed 3 of competition tests and got a year ban. She even got her olympic ban lifted and is treated as some sort of hero by the british public and media.

There are plenty of people in the British media (papers rather than TV) who slag her off and have no time for her whatsoever (Oliver Holt is particular hater).

Her ban got lifted because she had never actually tested positive for anything and the bylaw specifically mentioned that.

 

[Mambo95]

Wasn't there a bike rider who did the same?

Did what? Missed three tests? I don't think so. There was Tim Don, a triathlete. I think he had some very good evidence of misfortune in his favour (I'm not sure though).

The person I'm referring to has a spotless record. It was mentioned in an interview. It wasn't an excuse for anything - the fault wasn't theirs.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

OK, so what happens in the event that, say, the restaurant Pereiro was in was 300km away? He could easily be planning on a four hour drive afterward, having been in his house at the allotted time, visiting people. As it was, he was well within range for them to offer up an alternative location so the point is moot. But when they turn up to test him, he knows they're coming because they had to have discovered he was not at home and hence contacted him to propose the alternative location. In our hypothetical situation, Pereiro is about four hours' drive away from the testers (dependent on roads of course) and they've come to his house from 7 to 8pm.

Do the testers then have to accept defeat if Pereiro (just continuing to use his name, there is no longer any connection to the real Óscar Pereiro) is unwilling to accept an alternative location, since they won't be able to test him before 11pm, because either they must spend four hours driving to him or he must spend four hours driving to them? Or is Pereiro's hand then forced since if he doesn't find a way to have them test him before 11pm it goes down as a strike against his name?

Its called "whereabouts".
You can update it and offer plenty of detail to what you are up to.
If you are 300km away from where you said you would be then yes, you deserve a missed test.

 

[Fus087]

OK, so what happens in the event that, say, the restaurant Pereiro was in was 300km away? He could easily be planning on a four hour drive afterward, having been in his house at the allotted time, visiting people. As it was, he was well within range for them to offer up an alternative location so the point is moot. But when they turn up to test him, he knows they're coming because they had to have discovered he was not at home and hence contacted him to propose the alternative location. In our hypothetical situation, Pereiro is about four hours' drive away from the testers (dependent on roads of course) and they've come to his house from 7 to 8pm.

Do the testers then have to accept defeat if Pereiro (just continuing to use his name, there is no longer any connection to the real Óscar Pereiro) is unwilling to accept an alternative location, since they won't be able to test him before 11pm, because either they must spend four hours driving to him or he must spend four hours driving to them? Or is Pereiro's hand then forced since if he doesn't find a way to have them test him before 11pm it goes down as a strike against his name?

Why, obviously the testers and Pereiro would have to drive 2 hours each and meet at some location in the middle for the test.
Seriously, in this case the tester simply screwed up.

Interesting question. Who else has been suspended for or charged with whereabouts violations? Alex Rasmussen, Michael Rasmussen, Jeanne Longo are the only ones who spring to my mind. None of them has tested positive, as far as I know.

Susan

Technically, Michael Rasmussen was suspended for the same.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Its called "whereabouts".
You can update it and offer plenty of detail to what you are up to.
If you are 300km away from where you said you would be then yes, you deserve a missed test.

But I was under the impression that you had to give your precise whereabouts for a set time, for an hour. If our hypothetical version of Pereiro was at his house for the hour that he said he would be (using 7-8am as per the story indicated), could he not then, after that time was up, hop in his car and go and visit friends a few hours away? And then, when the testers show up at 7-8pm, be too far away to comply with testing protocols even despite having availed himself for testing at the agreed times? Would he have to call up the UCI and fill in a form to say he was going to visit his friends?

Basically, you're saying that if somebody is 300km away from where they said they would be, they deserve a missed test, and I agree with that (i.e. if the time "Pereiro" availed himself for testing was at his house from 7-8pm and he was in a restaurant 300km away, then that's a strike against you). But if he was where he said he would be when he said he would be there, surely there isn't a restriction on movement outside of those hours, as long as he is where he said he would be for the time he is supposed to be there the following day? After all, our hypothetical Pereiro didn't say he would be at his home at any time other than the hour he was actually there.

 

[luckyboy]

I liked Offredo, disappointing.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But I was under the impression that you had to give your precise whereabouts for a set time, for an hour. If our hypothetical version of Pereiro was at his house for the hour that he said he would be (using 7-8am as per the story indicated), could he not then, after that time was up, hop in his car and go and visit friends a few hours away? And then, when the testers show up at 7-8pm, be too far away to comply with testing protocols even despite having availed himself for testing at the agreed times? Would he have to call up the UCI and fill in a form to say he was going to visit his friends?

Yes, you have to be at precise location for one hour.
But you also have to give details of where else you might be and the ADAMS system allows this.

Its not much different than logging on to Facebook to tell the World "I'm lonely".
(Read up the linked BBC blogs, they give a very good insight in to the system.)

Basically, you're saying that if somebody is 300km away from where they said they would be, they deserve a missed test, and I agree with that (i.e. if the time "Pereiro" availed himself for testing was at his house from 7-8pm and he was in a restaurant 300km away, then that's a strike against you). But if he was where he said he would be when he said he would be there, surely there isn't a restriction on movement outside of those hours, as long as he is where he said he would be for the time he is supposed to be there the following day?

Most athletes put down their residence (or where they wake up) for the hour - then you can add detail if you are indeed traveling or even going training.

Thats exactly what happened with Periero, he offered his home as where he would be, later he went "an hour away" without updating his whereabouts, which you can do from a phone.
The testers actually facilitated him by going there and booking a hotel.

 

[T_S_A_R]

the way i understand the whereabouts system to work is

you give a location where you will be available for testing for one hour every day.

however you are still required to provide a sample at other times if requested.

think andy shleck also in a restaurant on the final rest day of this tour.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yes, you have to be at precise location for one hour.
But you also have to give details of where else you might be and the ADAMS system allows this.

Its not much different than logging on to Facebook to tell the World "I'm lonely".
(Read up the linked BBC blogs, they give a very good insight in to the system.)


Most athletes put down their residence (or where they wake up) for the hour - then you can add detail if you are indeed traveling or even going training.

Thats exactly what happened with Periero, he offered his home as where he would be, later he went "an hour away" without updating his whereabouts, which you can do from a phone.
The testers actually facilitated him by going there and booking a hotel.

OK, that makes sense. I was honestly convinced that the whereabouts was all about that one hour a day.

Given that, I can see why people complain about it and how easy it can be to miss tests or fail to update your whereabouts. After all, with something like going to a restaurant you can think to do it, but for say, a family emergency or something it might not be to the forefront of your mind. In fact, it seems almost ludicrously restrictive, especially when you get stories like the one Mambo related about the Olympian getting a strike because the testers forgot to bring the key code with them.

It then comes out as, how far away from the expected location constitutes a violation (for example, cyclists go on training rides. "I'm somewhere in the mountains above Granada" is not especially specific, but the riders can hardly be expected to stop training in order to phone up every half hour to update where they are)? But then, in the Pereiro restaurant case, even if he had gone to the hotel they suggested, there is enough time between the imminent test being divulged and the test taking place that he may be able to do something to affect the results should any adverse analytical findings be likely, so it is not ideal either for the riders to be at any kind of distance from the testers, so as not to be forewarned of imminent tests.

 

[Anonymous]

I would be very curious to know how many riders have one or two violations. It is probably a lot more than we might expect.

Susan

I would guess about seventy percent of the peloton.. at least

Vaughters has already said if his riders hit two he sits them out until theyve expired.. have a look through the Garmin roster and see which riders missed a chunk of races..

 

[Mambo95]

I would guess about seventy percent of the peloton.. at least

70% of the peloton - no way
70% of the top 100 riders who have been around for 4+ years - yeah, very likely.

I remember Cancellara saying he'd missed two - one on the morning after a Roubaix celebration party that he didn't wake up for.

 

[Polyarmour]

Loads of times.
But I rang or texted to say I would be late or to reschedule.

Missing a test is not the same as the examples you give.
Have you arranged a meeting or gathering? Offered the time and place that you will be there?
And then at the time offered you get a call "ah, everyones here, where are you?".......

Actually I'm probably capable of doing that

Ok maybe it's more like missing your flight.
Missing an exam as a student.
Forgetting to take a birth control pill if your a woman.

When you get tested 60 times a year eventually it becomes mundane. Human nature. Even though it's an important thing to do, eventually you're going to forget one.

 

[Mambo95]

Actually I'm probably capable of doing that

Ok maybe it's more like missing your flight.
Missing an exam as a student.
Forgetting to take a birth control pill if your a woman.

When you get tested 60 times a year eventually it becomes mundane. Human nature. Even though it's an important thing to do, eventually you're going to forget one.

You have to remember that Dr M is the perfect employee. He never comes in late. He never misses a meeting. He never screws up his paperwork. He's faultless. He's never ever made a mistake.

He also seems to spend his whole working day on internet forums, though. A true pro.

 

[doolols]

Thanks to links posted here, I know a little more about the system that I did before. Thanks, guys.

Now what I'd like to see is someone (Cav, say) publish the details of where he was supposed to be, and why he forgot to update the system when the filming schedule came in. Was there no one involved with him who could say "hey, Cav - don't forget to tell the vampires that you're going to be somewhere different".

 

[egtalbot]

Things have changed a bit, but I came within a whisker of missing a test when I was in the USOC track & field testing pool. I provided whereabouts, but there was no easy mechanism for notifying them of the exact trails in the woods (no cell phone signal) I'd be on for a 3 hour workout. Basically they called you and gave you an hour notice and if you happened to be out on said workout for more than an hour afterwards, you got a missed test. I knew a number of athletes who missed a single random test in this manner.

Granted, the ability to report specifics is easier now, and someone riding professionally I suppose could be expected to arrange for more than I did, such as a satellite phone. But based on my own experiences, I would never make any assumptions about either guilt or professional competence based solely on a missed test.

If Cav was in Italy and was supposed to be in Britain, that's a slightly different story in terms of what he could easily have done differently, though I still would consider a single missed test a non-issue that should never have become public in the first place.

 

[ElChingon]

Technically, Michael Rasmussen was suspended for the same.

Technically? Didn't Cav technically miss a test?

 

[Fus087]

Technically? Didn't Cav technically miss a test?

Rasmussen missed four. And he was in Italy while supposedly being in Mexico, and was later being investigated for owning a share in a blood centrifuge.
Don't tell me that all that didn't play a role in his conviction, or that Cavendish's one missed test equals it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Actually I'm probably capable of doing that

Ok maybe it's more like missing your flight.
Missing an exam as a student.
Forgetting to take a birth control pill if your a woman.

When you get tested 60 times a year eventually it becomes mundane. Human nature. Even though it's an important thing to do, eventually you're going to forget one.

Nope - because 'you' are the one dictating the when and where. (in the example you give, you are the flight, not the person who misses it)

As for the 60 tests a year.
I find that interesting as one would expect Cav to be one of the most tested - he had 60 tests and as a prolefic winner one would assume that most of those were from in competition.
Which begs the question, how many tests were OOC and has he missed any others since April?

You have to remember that Dr M is the perfect employee. He never comes in late. He never misses a meeting. He never screws up his paperwork. He's faultless. He's never ever made a mistake.

He also seems to spend his whole working day on internet forums, though. A true pro.

Thank you Mambo - of course to come to this conclusion would mean that you would have to disregard my earlier post where I acknowledged:

"Loads of times."

Indeed this is why I think it is a good thing that one violation should not be looked harshly, as there are many people out there who miss very clear information.

 

[chase196126]

The biggest issue I had with out of competition forms this year was how to list where I would be during training on the bike. Since cycling isn't like swimming or other indoor sports that are in a fixed location, it is almost impossible to list where you will be short of "the roads of ____"

I had one day where a tester called me when I was on top of a mountain riding. Luckily I was close enough to get to him in time, but had my phone not had service or I hadn't heard it ring I would have been screwed.

 

[doolols]

The biggest issue I had with out of competition forms this year was how to list where I would be during training on the bike. Since cycling isn't like swimming or other indoor sports that are in a fixed location, it is almost impossible to list where you will be short of "the roads of ____"

I'm a bit confused here. Doesn't the athlete have to choose one hour during the day where they specify their location? And don't most athletes choose the early morning, where they are less likely to be out and about? Or, if they're travelling to training or competition, later at night?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm a bit confused here. Doesn't the athlete have to choose one hour during the day where they specify their location? And don't most athletes choose the early morning, where they are less likely to be out and about? Or, if they're travelling to training or competition, later at night?

That was what I thought, too, but Dr. Mas pointed out that actually, though they only have to avail themselves for testing at a specific location for one hour a day, they have to be prepared for testers to show up for seventeen hours a day. Hence the testers have to have some reasonable level of knowledge of where they are. Hence Óscar Pereiro being tested in a restaurant because he refused to leave the meal to go to an OOC test. He was not obliged to move, but he was obliged to take the test. The problem then being that Óscar knew about the test, so had he been doing anything at the time (not likely as he hadn't been on the road for months at that point) he could have prepared for the test, the test taking place in a restaurant hallway opened up possibilities of contamination and procedural issues that may have made a sanction difficult to enforce without a lengthy legal battle, and the restaurant could take action against Pereiro and/or the testers for conducting such a test publicly in a place where they're trying to serve food.

 

[unsheath]

Congratulations to Harley on being the new WC.

Santini better get that custom jersey made quick.

 

[greatking88]

Here is the BBC footage I think Cav is referring to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cycling/13399242.stm

Oh thats where Cavendish got the idea of hanging onto to a car

 

[will10]

Im quite sure that Cav mentions in his book being on two missed tests at some point and getting a bollocking off Brailsford or Ellingworth.