Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[noob]

nowhere it says he pleaded guilty and admitted to pushing the girls.

It does say exactly that.

"he said during the hearing on Monday that he had pushed one girl to the floor and the other against the wall. The latter sustained an abrasion. "

 

[King Boonen]

How do you know that? There was no other solution than taking him into the police office then and there and keeping him for several hours into the night? It was completely impossible and out of the question to take a short statement and then make him come in the day after?

He was accused of assaulting children. This is literally basic policing. Make him explain himself before he has chance to sort out any story.

 

[IndianCyclist]

The curious thing is that there are no " We believe him" "We are behind him" public support from the Dutch cycling federation, Prominent Dutch Cyclists, From his team(national and trade), Other personalities and Adrie van der poel who is usually very vocal about these things.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

nowhere it says he pleaded guilty and admitted to pushing the girls.

I am reliant on Google translate, which renders

Hoewel hij zondag nog verklaarde dat hij de meisjes niet had vastgepakt, vertelde hij maandag tijdens de zitting dat hij een meisje tegen de grond had geduwd en de ander tegen de muur. De laatste liep daarbij een schaafwond op.

as

Although he stated on Sunday that he had not grabbed the girls, he said during the hearing on Monday that he had pushed one girl to the floor and the other against the wall. The latter sustained an abrasion.

Is it very different?

I have answered your challenge: will you respond to mine? Have you seen any source claiming that he pleaded not guilty?

 

[noob]

He has actually said in a hearing that he pushed one girl against the wall and the other on the floor. That's his own words in the hearing.

He's most likely trying to appeal to his circumstances, which is another thing.

 

[OlavEH]

He was accused of assaulting children. This is literally basic policing. Make him explain himself before he has chance to sort out any story.

Sort out any story......

At worst case we're talking about some shoving here, not aggravated assuault and serious body harm. Unless you are an Australian police officer or lawyer who are absolutely sure how they practice things there, there is no way I'm buying that requires an immediate visit for several hours to a police station.

 

[yaco]

And you make that assertion on the evidence of a specific precedent, or an assumption?

There is one hundred years of precedents in Australia of well known sporting figures who've had police interviews delayed.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

No witnesses, word against word an he gets convicted. Innocent until proven otherwise is a concept not known to Australian law?

or the concept of pleading guilty is known.

 

[noob]

If someone pushes you lightly you don't fall to the floor least you're intoxicated AF, in which case you also fall lighter.

You also don't end up grazed by being pushed to the wall without force.

 

[Red Rick]

He has actually said in a hearing that he pushed one girl against the wall and the other on the floor. That's his own words in the hearing.

He's most likely trying to appeal to his circumstances, which is another thing.

Guys this is gonna take me a while to spin.

Spoiler

Why would Fred Wright do such a thing?

Spoiler

Nah if this is true MvdP is just a massive *** idiot at best.

 

[yaco]

It is common in Australia that if you plead guilty to a minor offence then no conviction is recorded - MVP may have been advised to plead guilty ( you factor in saving court time, no appearance for the minors, and of course MVP does not wish to be caught in OZ for longer than necessary ) for these reasons.

 

[noob]

The curious thing is that there are no " We believe him" "We are behind him" public support from the Dutch cycling federation, Prominent Dutch Cyclists, From his team(national and trade), Other personalities and Adrie van der poel who is usually very vocal about these things.

Because they understand the gravity of the situation.

Did he DNF himself or was he taken out of the race?

 

[King Boonen]

Sort out any story......

At worst case we're talking about some shoving here, not aggravated assuault and serious body harm. Unless you are an Australian police officer or lawyer who are absolutely sure how they practice things there, there is no way I'm buying that requires an immediate visit for several hours to a police station.

Oh yeah, we need a Professor of Law from Monash to tell us that assaulting two children is going to get you taken to a police station.

 

[OlavEH]

Oh yeah, we need a Professor of Law from Monash to tell us that assaulting two children is going to get you taken to a police station.

We certainly need something more than your judgement.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Sort out any story......

At worst case we're talking about some shoving here, not aggravated assuault and serious body harm. Unless you are an Australian police officer or lawyer who are absolutely sure how they practice things there, there is no way I'm buying that requires an immediate visit for several hours to a police station.

So is it your position that they held him for longer than necessary because they have a deep-seated hatred of either cyclists or Dutch people? Or that they fancied a bit of overtime? Or were bored and lonely in an otherwise quiet police staion (because Saturday nights are notoriously calm and quiet for police forces)? Or that they were deliberately spoiling MvdP's chances in the race.

If you think they acted against normal procedures, what reason do you think they had for that?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

It is common in Australia that if you plead guilty to a minor offence then no conviction is recorded - MVP may have been advised to plead guilty ( you factor in saving court time, no appearance for the minors, and of course MVP does not wish to be caught in OZ for longer than necessary ) for these reasons.

I think the lawyer has made it clear that this was their hope in pleading guilty, but it didn't work out for them.

 

[OlavEH]

So is it your position that they held him for longer than necessary because they have a deep-seated hatred of either cyclists or Dutch people? Or that they fancied a bit of overtime? Or were bored and lonely in an otherwise quiet police staion (because Saturday nights are notoriously calm and quiet for police forces)? Or that they were deliberately spoiling MvdP's chances in the race.

Overeager in their job possibly. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't an absolute necessity to drag VdP in for several hours for a minor incident like that. Nor do I think that every police officer would things exactly the same as the ones we're talking about here. Law is all about discretion, that's why lawyers all around the world make a shitload of money. There isn't only one absolute way to do it. I would be extremely suprised if they couldn't have made a judgement like that in this case. Take a short statement then and there, and then make him come to the police station the next day. I strongly doubt he would have gone around the whole night assaulting people, fled the country or conspired with others to make a false statement if that happened.

 

[bob.a.feet]

Yet another tactical mistake by Van der Poel on the biggest stage. Should have allowed his girlfriend to take the fall and sort out those troublemakers. I know he's aggressive by nature, but sometimes you need to rely on your domestiques.

 

[memyselfandI]

Sort out any story......

At worst case we're talking about some shoving here, not aggravated assuault and serious body harm. Unless you are an Australian police officer or lawyer who are absolutely sure how they practice things there, there is no way I'm buying that requires an immediate visit for several hours to a police station.

There may be a bigger scheme of things when nation decides to take a certain stance, when foreign people rage towards it's own citizens. They are sending a message that way over the border.

This is not at all a problem from law enforcement side of things. It's most of all result of stupid team travel management. Wrong town, wrong hotel management, wrong privileges (no athlete needs gf/bf on her side in any case of a-races) aso. A clever person and team solving problems that wise ones avoid in this very case.

I admire him greatly as a one day road racer and cx racer, but he needs some babysitting still.

 

[PeterB]

And would the law in your territory permit you to leave your property and physically assault minors for disturbing your rest in your property?

If you are a witness, let alone a victim, of an offence, wouldn't you be allowed to pursue and try to catch the offenders?

 

[Salvarani]

Yet another tactical mistake by Van der Poel on the biggest stage. Should have allowed his girlfriend to take the fall and sort out those troublemakers. I know he's aggressive by nature, but sometimes you need to rely on your domestiques.

Not funny. This is weird.

 

[Cookster15]

Do either of you actually believe that whether the police charge an adult male over an incident in which teenage girls were injured is a government decision?

No but that wasn't my point.

 

[Cookster15]

exactly my point

Also hate the fact that a lot of people see VDP as the bad man in this. Yes he should not have gone after them. But for crying out loud the fact 14 year olds, not little kids, are out on the hotel room knocking on door with the parents being nowhere? That's a bad look on parenting and those kids... wtf. I'd be fuming as well

There seems fault on both sides. I absolutely agree 14 year olds should not be knocking on doors and, since they are minors (under 18), their parents should be at the minimum questioned by police or even fined.

But nothing excuses VDP for effectively taking the law into his own hands. He or the Dutch management should have reported the incident to the hotel staff and demanded police be called.

But I do sympathize with VDP, you need rest before a massive event and your rest is interrupted by young idiots. I can understand why he lost his temper, but that still doesn't make it right. Pushing them or grabbing their arms is assault under Australian law. That means it would likely be assault under British laws too. Easily avoidable - don't touch them and walk to hotel staff to demand action be taken.

 

[Billie]

It is common in Australia that if you plead guilty to a minor offence then no conviction is recorded - MVP may have been advised to plead guilty ( you factor in saving court time, no appearance for the minors, and of course MVP does not wish to be caught in OZ for longer than necessary ) for these reasons.

Given he paid 20k for his flight, pleading whatever was necessary so he could leave on his planned fight and didn't have to rebook was always in his best interest.

Paying 1,5k fine was probably cheaper than new tickets

 

[wansteadimp]

Overeager in their job possibly. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't an absolute necessity to drag VdP in for several hours for a minor incident like that. Nor do I think that every police officer would things exactly the same as the ones we're talking about here. Law is all about discretion, that's why lawyers all around the world make a shitload of money. There isn't only one absolute way to do it. I would be extremely suprised if they couldn't have made a judgement like that in this case. Take a short statement then and there, and then make him come to the police station the next day. I strongly doubt he would have gone around the whole night assaulting people, fled the country or conspired with others to make a false statement if that happened.

One of the other options that the police probably thought about is, what will the parents do next if I don't go by the book with this International sports star - I'm sure the individual police officers wouldn't want there names in the local gossip rags for giving favourable treatment to celebrities and I'm certain their superiors wouldn't want that.