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Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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I've said it over and over...the more he races, the weaker he gets.
Well, the guy has won more elite level UCI bike races than anyone else in the world over the past however many years - in three different disciplines - by a lot. Maybe he makes it look too easy? Looked reasonably strong on stage 12, so things seem to be trending in the right direction for the WC's. So, CX WC, SR, 2nd RVV, PR, WC Road, whatever he can piece together on the MTB this year would be a decent year. And bottom line is there is no one who comes close to him in terms of sublime handling skills - the speed in and out of corners, etc.
 
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Interesting though that Roodhooft speaks so frankly about MVDP (maybe a Dutch thing or maybe I'm missing something in the translation) - sort of in the Lefevere mode. But MVDP doesn't seem like the type that needs much external motivation. And of course he has basically built AP from the ground up. There is no AP without MVDP - while all the other top guys just joined up on the super "marginal gains" teams.
 
What this Tour lacks is clearly some stages for the true classic specialists and it shows. There are lots of other riders, like Mathieu, who could win stages, but actually reall haven't had the chance yet. Ofc, a peak Mathieu could maybe contend in the Basque Country, and MAYBE have finished the job on stage 12, but all those stages were realistically still too hard. That's what this route really lacks IMO, some classic stages into towns like Revel or Nancy where you always find some good hills in the finale, but not too hard ones.

Thats on the organizers really. Instead, Philipsen has 4 stages, and 3 more opportunities, while Mathieu really only has stage 19 if a break goes.
 
What this Tour lacks is clearly some stages for the true classic specialists and it shows. There are lots of other riders, like Mathieu, who could win stages, but actually reall haven't had the chance yet. Ofc, a peak Mathieu could maybe contend in the Basque Country, and MAYBE have finished the job on stage 12, but all those stages were realistically still too hard. That's what this route really lacks IMO, some classic stages into towns like Revel or Nancy where you always find some good hills in the finale, but not too hard ones.

Thats on the organizers really. Instead, Philipsen has 4 stages, and 3 more opportunities, while Mathieu really only has stage 19 if a break goes.
yeah, they hilly stage have either been too sprinter friendly or too GC friendly, but also Jonas and Pogi being mad and making stage 10 much harder than it needed to be doesn't help either.
 
What this Tour lacks is clearly some stages for the true classic specialists and it shows. There are lots of other riders, like Mathieu, who could win stages, but actually reall haven't had the chance yet. Ofc, a peak Mathieu could maybe contend in the Basque Country, and MAYBE have finished the job on stage 12, but all those stages were realistically still too hard. That's what this route really lacks IMO, some classic stages into towns like Revel or Nancy where you always find some good hills in the finale, but not too hard ones.

Thats on the organizers really. Instead, Philipsen has 4 stages, and 3 more opportunities, while Mathieu really only has stage 19 if a break goes.
Imo this is always the problem for riders like Vd Poel. Who are not enough climber to win the medium mountain inbetween stages, and not enough sprinter to contest mass sprints.
The comparison always goes with WvA, but WvA is much more of a climber than VDP obviously. and more of a sprinter as well, so that comparison goes blanc.
VDP has the same problem true flandrien riders always had that have no tt, mass sprint or climb, there's very select stages left.

It has to be a light hilly stage like the one in Bretagne in 2021. Or stage 12 where VDP was ill. And in absolute topform I'd see him do better in Basque country, but only if Pogi/Vinge didn't go full.

VDP won't win much gt stages for that reason alone. Unless they built a GT with like 5 small hilltop finishes where he can use his acceleration.
 
What this Tour lacks is clearly some stages for the true classic specialists and it shows. There are lots of other riders, like Mathieu, who could win stages, but actually reall haven't had the chance yet. Ofc, a peak Mathieu could maybe contend in the Basque Country, and MAYBE have finished the job on stage 12, but all those stages were realistically still too hard. That's what this route really lacks IMO, some classic stages into towns like Revel or Nancy where you always find some good hills in the finale, but not too hard ones.

Thats on the organizers really. Instead, Philipsen has 4 stages, and 3 more opportunities, while Mathieu really only has stage 19 if a break goes.

He also had stage 8, but apparently it was important for Alpecin to win green by 200 points rather than 180.
 
true, albeit on a finish like that it would still be hard for VDP to beat Pedersen. This was 3-5%. If it was 6-8% other story. The negative of being far more one-dimensional.. Well that's maybe harsch, he's more allround than people generally give credit for. But not enough for GT's. Ideally would either have to sprint or climb better
 
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Just curious here: WVA is heavier but climbs better. This implies both higher w/kg at threshold but also higher absolute threshold watts since his kg is higher. He probably also TTs better, so better w/m2 in TT setup.

Yet, after a hard race such as Roubaix or Ronde, MVDP is no slouch holding a sustained effort on the flats or rolling hills, sometimes dropping WVA.

What's the driver here? I don't think mentality or killer instinct explains anything here. Some guesses:

- paradoxically WVA's kryptonite is fatigue resistance and repeatability after frequent dips into the redzone. He has himself framed it as a sugar burning problem which leaves him flat late in races, in inscyd propaganda videos. But wouldn't that be solved by simply slamming 100-120g / h of carbs into his system? (I think the inscyd metabolic model has things backwards, but that's another discussion).

Then there's the way he rides in races, ie impersonates the knuckleheaded macho if there ever was one, so I would not discount the possibility that he is constantly slightly overreached / not fresh, and cannot thus access the extra gear during important moments.

- MVDP's fibre distribution is more fast twitch, which explains the lower threshold and/or sustained climbing ability. However this also means he has extra anaerobic capacity that allows him to go less deep during the classics hills relative to competitors, and thus allows him to recover just as well as more aerobic competitors. And of course it means he has the Kick as the ultimate race winning weapon, too.

- MVDP simply has a higher vo2max but lower fractional utilisation (threshold) and WVA vice versa?
 
What's the driver here? I don't think mentality or killer instinct explains anything here. Some guesses:

- paradoxically WVA's kryptonite is fatigue resistance and repeatability after frequent dips into the redzone. He has himself framed it as a sugar burning problem which leaves him flat late in races, in inscyd propaganda videos. But wouldn't that be solved by simply slamming 100-120g / h of carbs into his system? (I think the inscyd metabolic model has things backwards, but that's another discussion).
There's a limit to the amount of carbs you can assimilate per hour and even assuming WVA can get to 120g/h that's probably not enough to replenish the glycogen reserves he's burning in a very tough race.
 
There's a limit to the amount of carbs you can assimilate per hour and even assuming WVA can get to 120g/h that's probably not enough to replenish the glycogen reserves he's burning in a very tough race.
Yes, agreed. I don't buy the sugar burner theory. I indicated my doubts about the analytical model on which it was built in WVA's own public appearances (YouTube).

Fatigue resistance is a broader issue and if lack thereof is the problem, it cannot be solved by more carbs alone though that might help. I should have worded the original post better and not used the rhetorical question format there.
 
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MVDP is just a flat out killer and winner. He wins a higher % of races that he is capable of winning, and there is only winning and losing for MVDP. Moreover, he has weapons that allow him to create separation and demoralize the competition at the highest level. The ability to carry speed in and out of corners in both road and CX (no one is even close), the ability to ride stuff no one else can in CX, etc. And the guy looks like a human version of Secretariat on the bike. RVV 2024 is going to the ultimate showdown between MVDP, Wout and Pogs.
 
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MVDP is just a flat out killer and winner. He wins a higher % of races that he is capable of winning, and there is only winning and losing for MVDP. Moreover, he has weapons that allow him to create separation and demoralize the competition at the highest level. The ability to carry speed in and out of corners in both road and CX (no one is even close), the ability to ride stuff no one else can in CX, etc. And the guy looks like a human version of Secretariat on the bike. RVV 2024 is going to the ultimate showdown between MVDP, Wout and Pogs.

Why wasn't RVV 2023 the ultimate showdown between the three?
 
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90th in the ITT, 6:38 mins down…

The course suited him perfectly.

I like him, but one could ask why he is riding this Tour de France…
This course was to hard. Why would he even try here.
He's not even 100% healed from his cold he said. Just getting better every day. Ride out this Tour and work towards the WC. That was his goal all along. And maybe a stage win, but he got few chances.
 
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Well, his team, the one that he has for all intents and purposes built, has won 4 stages. And he's basically able to use this tour for whatever training he needs to get ready for the WC's. I like the way things are trending for the WC's. And if he wins there, he's the bike racer of the year - not even close. The tour (at least the GC part of it) became a bit of joke today anyway.
 
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