Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[senna6541]

i read in an interview with Simon Clarke later that the pivotal moment was the false flat uphill part from 2km to 1km. That's where Alaph was riding really slowly and Mathieu was absolutely going flat out to the point that the guys in that group were struggling to hold the wheel. I think they closed nearly 45 seconds in that little part alone. Just because Alaph was not keeping up at least some sort of pace with Fugl in his wheel.

Yeah, the footage of MVDP pulling up that false flat is pretty intense - 7 elite pros literally going full out just to stay on his wheel.

 

[senna6541]

By the way, strange nobody made any notion of it considering his win in Strade, but i wonder if he still thinks it was a good decision not going to the WCC last year.

You never know with MVDP, but thinking back to last fall, he probably would have went into that race as third favorite behind AP and WVA, no? He was insanely strong in the last stage at BB (Senechal into the quicksand), and then came back the next day at LBL, but I can't remember the whole timeline of races last fall at this point. Of course by RVV he was pretty much dead even with WVA. All that said, in top form, MVDP will always be the odds on favorite to win any race he's looking to win.

 

[Ricco']

You never know with MVDP, but thinking back to last fall, he probably would have went into that race as third favorite behind AP and WVA, no? He was insanely strong in the last stage at BB (Senechal into the quicksand), and then came back the next day at LBL, but I can't remember the whole timeline of races last fall at this point. Of course by RVV he was pretty much dead even with WVA. All that said, in top form, MVDP will always be the odds on favorite to win any race he's looking to win.

WCC were right before Benny Bongy Tour and LBL.

Wout was top favourite with Alaphilippe. MVP not that much. Although he had already won the NC and the stage at Tirreno, the biggest showings (Billy Bunny Tour solo, LBL and Brabantse Pijl) all came after that.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

WCC were right before Benny Bongy Tour and LBL.

Wout was top favourite with Alaphilippe. MVP not that much. Although he had already won the NC and the stage at Tirreno, the biggest showings (Billy Bunny Tour solo, LBL and Brabantse Pijl) all came after that.

You're probably right, and while i believe his form was already a lot better than early season 2020, it was still quite a bit off from what he showed in Strade last week. But still, i think if he had gone, he would have finished top 10, probably in the group behind the group of van Aert & Roglic. Maybe the disappointment of 2019 played a part in his decision not to go?

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

If that's the only reason then all of the other 150 riders at the start could have won that race.
And we know it's not true.

Watch the final of the Amstel. It's crystal clear.

 

[SafeBet]

Watch the final of the Amstel. It's crystal clear.

Ok so why didn't Simon Clarke win?

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Ok so why didn't Simon Clarke win?

Because Van der Poel is better and faster than Simon Clarke. But both wouldn't have sprinted for the victory, if Ala and Fughlsang didn't almost went to "surplacing".

 

[Blanco]

Because Van der Poel is better and faster than Simon Clarke. But both wouldn't have sprinted for the victory, if Ala and Fughlsang didn't almost went to "surplacing".

You're only partly right, because without Van Der Poel that group would've never caught Ala/Fuglsang

 

[Bonimenier]

You're only partly right, because without Van Der Poel that group would've never caught Ala/Fuglsang

On the other hand van der Poel alone wouldn't have caught Alaphilippe and Fuglsang without the help, however little it was, from the other guys.

 

[Blanco]

On the other hand van der Poel alone wouldn't have caught Alaphilippe and Fuglsang without the help, however little it was, from the other guys.

That's also right. But I would say that without Mathieu Van Der Poel that day we would not get one of the most memorable races of the whole decade!

 

[Publiuszam]

With more experience esp. sprint this kid could go very far. He's got a bright future

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ok so why didn't Simon Clarke win?

Because he didn't have that amazing last 1k van der Poel had. Oh, wait, you never actually read my comments, you just read the part about me saying it was luck that created these conditions so that he still had the opportunity to do that 1k raid, with all the people commenting on the "luck" part, and ignoring the fact that i said from the start it wasn't just luck because nobody else could have done what he did, but without a huge part of luck, he wouldn't have won?

I was comparing his Amstel win to his Strade win. In Amstel, he got lucky to end up in a position that he could still win from a lost position, considering he'd been dropped, had made tactical errors, and wasn't the best rider in the race. He was however the only rider in the race that could do that drag sprint to snatch the win from an impossible position. Conditions served him, getting in a chasing group that worked together, and Ala and Fuglsang not riding. Had those things not happened, nobody would be talking about MvdP in that race. In Strade, it was the other way around, there was basically no way he was going to lose that race.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Because he didn't have that amazing last 1k van der Poel had. Oh, wait, you never actually read my comments, you just read the part about me saying it was luck that created these conditions so that he still had the opportunity to do that 1k raid, with all the people commenting on the "luck" part, and ignoring the fact that i said from the start it wasn't just luck because nobody else could have done what he did, but without a huge part of luck, he wouldn't have won?

I was comparing his Amstel win to his Strade win. In Amstel, he got lucky to end up in a position that he could still win from a lost position, considering he'd been dropped, had made tactical errors, and wasn't the best rider in the race. He was however the only rider in the race that could do that drag sprint to snatch the win from an impossible position. Conditions served him, getting in a chasing group that worked together, and Ala and Fuglsang not riding. Had those things not happened, nobody would be talking about MvdP in that race. In Strade, it was the other way around, there was basically no way he was going to lose that race.

Exactly this.

Anyway, if there's any weak point besides sustained high watt pressure, I'd say it's positioning in bigger group sprints. Point proven again today.

 

[SafeBet]

Because he didn't have that amazing last 1k van der Poel had. Oh, wait, you never actually read my comments

Either Zoef-Lightning is your burner account or I don't understand why you're replying to me.
I read your comments. And they made sense to me.

Van der Poel winning ONLY because of luck is a whole different matter. And that's why I replied to that specific post by Zoef-Lightning.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Either Zoef-Lightning is your burner account or I don't understand why you're replying to me.
I read your comments. And they made sense to me.

Van der Poel winning ONLY because of luck is a whole different matter. And that's why I replied to that specific post by Zoef-Lightning.

God damn it. I have him blocked so i can't see his replies (not even when quoted) so i thought you were talking to me, lol.

 

[jaylew]

I was comparing his Amstel win to his Strade win. In Amstel, he got lucky to end up in a position that he could still win from a lost position, considering he'd been dropped, had made tactical errors, and wasn't the best rider in the race.

I guess this is the part we'll never know. If he hadn't just been on the attack and had raced a bit smarter there's a good chance he would have been able to go with Ala and Fuglsang when they attacked.

 

[red_flanders]

I was comparing his Amstel win to his Strade win. In Amstel, he got lucky to end up in a position that he could still win from a lost position, considering he'd been dropped, had made tactical errors, and wasn't the best rider in the race. He was however the only rider in the race that could do that drag sprint to snatch the win from an impossible position.

I guess it boils down to what you mean by "best rider in the race". Strongest? Hard to argue anyone was stronger. Tactically most astute? No. But he's so strong it often doesn't matter and he knows it. He got dropped because he overestimated his strength. But he also recovered more than anyone could have expected.

Conditions served him, getting in a chasing group that worked together, and Ala and Fuglsang not riding. Had those things not happened, nobody would be talking about MvdP in that race. In Strade, it was the other way around, there was basically no way he was going to lose that race.

Certainly JA and JF gave Kwiatkowski and the MVdP group a hope with the dickering around. Personally I think you overstate with "working together" aspect. Yes, the group worked together to some degree, and some others worked, but he drove that group and did the bulk of it. Guys were just hanging on when he was on the front. Without him, that group never had a hope of even getting close, they'd have ridden to the finish and the douches. With him it didn't really have a hope, but they did it anyway. That's what was so astonishing about it.

I guess this is the part we'll never know. If he hadn't just been on the attack and had raced a bit smarter there's a good chance he would have been able to go with Ala and Fuglsang when they attacked.

I don't think there's any question about it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I guess this is the part we'll never know. If he hadn't just been on the attack and had raced a bit smarter there's a good chance he would have been able to go with Ala and Fuglsang when they attacked.

I can agree with that, but riding smart is also a big part of it. But i guess you could say Alaphilippe and Fuglsang weren't exactly smart either.

 

[BlueRoads]

It doesn't really matter, but I think Ala was already quite a bit from his peak by then. I often think that's not really taken into account. FW he won by a hair, and in LBL he wasn't where he could have been at other times.
I'm not sure, Fuglsang was aware of that at Amstel. I think he was decently annoyed by Alaphilippe and thought he was just playing games again, when in my opinion Alaphilippe was playing poker because he didn't have the strength to just go.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Either Zoef-Lightning is your burner account or I don't understand why you're replying to me.
I read your comments. And they made sense to me.

Van der Poel winning ONLY because of luck is a whole different matter. And that's why I replied to that specific post by Zoef-Lightning.

I never wrote Van der Poel won only because of "luck". But he would never have won, if Ala and Fuglsang hadn't slowed down seriously (especially because Fuglsang no longer took the lead). If Ala and Fuglsang had fought wisely, one of them had won. And Van der Poel would have been third. In 2019. I think that nowadays, Van der Poel would have been in the leading group. And would have beaten Ala by a few centimeters.

 

[red_flanders]

.

But he would never have won, if Ala and Fuglsang hadn't slowed down seriously (especially because Fuglsang no longer took the lead). If Ala and Fuglsang had fought wisely, one of them had won. And Van der Poel would have been third.

I don't think anyone could disagree with that.

In 2019. I think that nowadays, Van der Poel would have been in the leading group. And would have beaten Ala by a few centimeters.

I think he also could have been in the leading group in 2019 if he'd waited, but that's how it goes. Sometimes you attack and it doesn't work. Part of what makes MVdP such an appealing rider is that the guy is going to attack, and he's doing to drive the race. I think if he was in the leading group in 2019 he would have blown by both JA and JF. But on a given day, on a given parcours, JA can certainly beat him in a finale as was shown today in T-A.

 

[DaLong]

But on a given day, on a given parcours, JA can certainly beat him in a finale as was shown today in T-A.

Also, Brabantse Pijl 2020. They got themselves a nice little rivalry going along with WvA. I like MvdP but it's more fun with an antagonist and JA makes for a darn good one.

 

[cen]

Damn.. that anger from MVDP on the finish today.. I felt that.

 

[Spine Concept]

Also, Brabantse Pijl 2020. They got themselves a nice little rivalry going along with WvA. I like MvdP but it's more fun with an antagonist and JA makes for a darn good one.

It does make it more fun, but let’s be honest, if Mathieu times his sprint right he always beats Alaphil in Brabantse Pijl. I don’t know if there’s a race out there more suited to Mathieu than BP.

 

[Spine Concept]

Damn.. that anger from MVDP on the finish today.. I felt that.

He knew he should have had that. He’s the most explosive rider in the peloton at the moment.
Hopefully a sign of things to come...