Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[BlueRoads]

The guy has massive resilience too. That embarrassing and potentially career threatening crash at the OG would have mind f--- a lot of guys, but he comes out and absolutely tears up a very dangerous track at PR - railing through corners that everyone else was nursing their way through. That said, he does seem to get bored easily and needs to be completely switched on. Wouldn't be surprised to see him get into more extreme stuff after the cycling is done.

Yeah, van der Poel is the most badass guy ever, the only one who can be compared to him is Senna, Mathieu doesn't know fear or weakness, he just roles over everyone whenever and wherever he likes, he's got the biggest balls you've ever seen, he's a force like a rhino-drawn panzer... and so on and so on...

 

[Ripper]

Yeah, van der Poel is the most badass guy ever, the only one who can be compared to him is Senna, Mathieu doesn't know fear or weakness, he just roles over everyone whenever and wherever he likes, he's got the biggest balls you've ever seen, he's a force like a rhino-drawn panzer... and so on and so on...

And ... when he's on he wins what he wants, when he loses it's because he was not interested/tired/sick/injured/some other excuse.

 

[Spine Concept]

And ... when he's on he wins what he wants, when he loses it's because he was not interested/tired/sick/injured/some other excuse.

Same goes for Wout van Aert though. Even their fans are alike in the ridiculous excuses they dig up for when they lose.

 

[Spine Concept]

He crashed because he screwed up, just not a bike handling skills screw up. Given the importance he stated for this goal, 'missing the memo' about the ramp was a pretty major screw up. Hopefully not the kind he makes again.

That’s not the point I was making though. We were talking about screwing up due to incompetence on the bike. He is up there with the best bike-handlers in the world.

Inattentiveness? Ignorance? Sure, but he didn’t screw up because he can’t handle his bike. Get it now?

 

[limak_]

And ... when he's on he wins what he wants, when he loses it's because he was not interested/tired/sick/injured/some other excuse.

This year, when he lost Ronde, 1st stage of TdF, WC and P-R (his biggest losses of the season), I haven't heard any of these excuses.
Ok, maybe after the Worlds, coming back after the back injury/OG crash was kind of an excuse. But even in this one, I feel it was an actual and justified explanation of his mediocre performance in this race.

Every single rider uses the excuses mentioned by you once in a while (some of them maybe more often, but I don't think MvdP belongs to them).

 

[Ripper]

Same goes for Wout van Aert though. Even their fans are alike in the ridiculous excuses they dig up for when they lose.

Yup. But this is van der Poel's thread.

 

[Ripper]

This year, when he lost Ronde, 1st stage of TdF, WC and P-R (his biggest losses of the season), I haven't heard any of these excuses.
Ok, maybe after the Worlds, coming back after the back injury/OG crash was kind of an excuse. But even in this one, I feel it was an actual and justified explanation of his mediocre performance in this race.

Every single rider uses the excuses mentioned by you once in a while (some of them maybe more often, but I don't think MvdP belongs to them).

Rider threads tend to be more heavily influenced by people who are fans of said rider (totally makes sense!), including the quintessential 'fan-person', so there is that.

However, I have seen more general excuse making regarding van der Poel that might be easier to describe in its reverse - e.g. if he is on, not injured or sick or overly fatigued, and it's a race he is in any way suited for, he will win (and if he does not, then something notable was holding him back). Whereas in reality, sometimes other riders are just better on the day. And yes, we see it to varying extents with other racers. Perhaps it is based on an attempt to analyze/rationalize what went wrong.

 

[Spine Concept]

Rider threads tend to be more heavily influenced by people who are fans of said rider (totally makes sense!), including the quintessential 'fan-person', so there is that.

However, I have seen more general excuse making regarding van der Poel that might be easier to describe in its reverse - e.g. if he is on, not injured or sick or overly fatigued, and it's a race he is in any way suited for, he will win (and if he does not, then something notable was holding him back). Whereas in reality, sometimes other riders are just better on the day. And yes, we see it to varying extents with other racers. Perhaps it is based on an attempt to analyze/rationalize what went wrong.

I think this is a subjective thing, cause I haven’t seen what you are saying about van der poel more than say about van Aert or Evenepoel. Often times the reasons given are genuine though as it can be easily deduced from a disruption of any kind leading up to a race.

I think that people who either dislike these riders or support one or more of their rivals can much easier see these reasons as excuses.

Anyway, point is, we all have our personal reasons for seeing things they way we do. If it’s rational or not often times simply boils down to who you support (fervently) or who you dislike (fervently).

 

[Spine Concept]

Yup. But this is van der Poel's thread.

No kidding. Didn’t know that meant that we couldn’t mention any other rider’s name in comparison. Especially one who’s been a direct rival since forever and whose career is similar to his in many ways. My bad.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Same goes for Wout van Aert though. Even their fans are alike in the ridiculous excuses they dig up for when they lose.

Whether or not their fans are alike i don't know, but the sort of excuses that are used are most certainly not the same. Basically Mathieu doesn't lose, he only wins. Whenever he doesn't win, it was either a physical issue or because he wasn't interested and didn't care. Van Aert loses because his team was too weak and he had to do too much work on his own. Possibly because his schedule is overloaded.

 

[Salvarani]

Sometimes it is just hard to win a bike race. Which it is for anyone, no matter who you are. You dont/cant win races at will. It goes for anyone.

The best riders just win more than the "average" and they are certainly both among the best riders in the peloton right now. I rather celebrate when they win in great fashion, than scrutinize every time they lose. For whatever reason.

 

[Spine Concept]

Whether or not their fans are alike i don't know, but the sort of excuses that are used are most certainly not the same. Basically Mathieu doesn't lose, he only wins. Whenever he doesn't win, it was either a physical issue or because he wasn't interested and didn't care. Van Aert loses because his team was too weak and he had to do too much work on his own. Possibly because his schedule is overloaded.

I’ve seem similar excuses for van Aert. Had “x” happened a certain way than he would have surely won, had “x” didn’t happen than he would have surely won etc. Same thing at the end of the day. Excuses are excuses. There isn’t some ranking for excuses. It’s the same in one way or another for every rider you support or dislike.

 

[Spine Concept]

Sometimes it is just hard to win a bike race. Which it is for anyone, no matter who you are. You dont/cant win races at will. It goes for anyone.

The best riders just win more than the "average" and they are certainly both among the best riders in the peloton right now. I rather celebrate when they win in great fashion, than scrutinize every time they lose. For whatever reason.

Agreed.

 

[Ripper]

No kidding. Didn’t know that meant that we couldn’t mention any other rider’s name in comparison. Especially one who’s been a direct rival since forever and whose career is similar to his in many ways. My bad.

I was simply stating a fact as to why my comment was about van der Poel and not going down the van Aert path.

Perhaps it was the nature of excuses that caught my eye in this thread? Indeed, van Aert also sometimes just doesn't have the legs but there can be various 'reasons' noted.

 

[Ripper]

Sometimes it is just hard to win a bike race. Which it is for anyone, no matter who you are. You dont/cant win races at will. It goes for anyone.

The best riders just win more than the "average" and they are certainly both among the best riders in the peloton right now. I rather celebrate when they win in great fashion, than scrutinize every time they lose. For whatever reason.

This should get 100 "likes"

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I’ve seem similar excuses for van Aert. Had “x” happened a certain way than he would have surely won, had “x” didn’t happen than he would have surely won etc. Same thing at the end of the day. Excuses are excuses. There isn’t some ranking for excuses. It’s the same in one way or another for every rider you support or dislike.

The difference is that the excuses that are made for Van der Poel often paint him as some sort of demi-god who will win when and where he feels like it. So the excuses are certainly not similar. Some can actually hold merit, some do not, some are simply preposterous.

 

[Spine Concept]

The difference is that the excuses that are made for Van der Poel often paint him as some sort of demi-god who will win when and where he feels like it. So the excuses are certainly not similar. Some can actually hold merit, some do not, some are simply preposterous.

Exactly, and Wout's fans have made every type of excuse you just listed as well at some point in some race whether you'd like to admit it or not. There's no difference as far as I have seen it.

It's not only the case for these two though, as I've said before, it has been this way since forever, for every rider that one fervently supports or dislikes. Nothing novel about this.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Exactly, and Wout's fans have made every type of excuse you just listed as well at some point in some race whether you'd like to admit it or not. There's no difference as far as I have seen it.

I'm sure certain fans at one point have made preposterous claims or excuses for about any and every rider. This isn't what i was talking about though. I was talking about a recurring alibi that basically makes him the most superior rider in the peloton. Either he wins, or he didn't care. This has been the ongoing discourse among a large portion of his fanbase for the past two or three seasons.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm sure certain fans at one point have made preposterous claims or excuses for about any and every rider. This isn't what i was talking about though. I was talking about a recurring alibi that basically makes him the most superior rider in the peloton. Either he wins, or he didn't care. This has been the ongoing discourse among a large portion of his fanbase for the past two or three seasons.

People said he didn't care about winning De Ronde? Really?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

People said he didn't care about winning De Ronde? Really?

Sure Toby, sure. I said "basically". In a previous post, to which this one was a follow up, i also said "often". I also stated "large portion of his fanbase", not everyboy, not all his fans. Do we really need to discuss that nothing is absolute? Really?

I think it's clear i was talking about whenever he underperforms or is a no-show. Not when he finishes on the podium but doesn't win.

 

[tobydawq]

Sure Toby, sure. I said "basically". In a previous post, to which this one was a follow up, i also said "often". I also stated "large portion of his fanbase", not everyboy, not all his fans. Do we really need to discuss that nothing is absolute? Really?

I think it's clear i was talking about whenever he underperforms or is a no-show. Not when he finishes on the podium but doesn't win.

But is it really hysterical fan-boyism to say it in case of him being a no-show? Considering how rarely it happens? I don't even know which races that would be. Dwars? Kuurne (hardly)? Strade last year?

 

[senna6541]

But is it really hysterical fan-boyism to say it in case of him being a no-show? Considering how rarely it happens? I don't even know which races that would be. Dwars? Kuurne (hardly)? Strade last year?

Good point. Bottom line is MVDP almost rarely "no shows". First stage TDF this year, yes. The weird opening phase right after racing picked up in 2020, yes. But it's few and very far between. His hit rate in every discipine is sick. Guessing he's probably won 90 of his last 100 CX races or something like that? Pidcock's take on the difference between him and WVA says a lot - only happy when he wins.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But is it really hysterical fan-boyism to say it in case of him being a no-show? Considering how rarely it happens? I don't even know which races that would be. Dwars? Kuurne (hardly)? Strade last year?

Strade last year was a good example, yes. There have been plenty of fans that kept claiming he is a great climber. Yet he never showed anything close to being a great climber since turning pro. This was because he never actually tried, obviously. Algarve also. Where he dropped quite early on the climb, while Greg Van Avermaet and Geschke followed Lopez, Evenepoel and Schachmann into the final 1k. On Malhao he was going to test himself to see how he 'd cope with short steep climbs, he finished way behind Van Avermaet etc again. Same story. The climbing myth finally died in the stage he lost his yellow jersey in the TDF. He was in shape, and he had an incentive, yet he finished 15 minutes behind Van Aert (who was also trying to take yellow).

 

[senna6541]

Yeah, van der Poel is the most badass guy ever, the only one who can be compared to him is Senna, Mathieu doesn't know fear or weakness, he just roles over everyone whenever and wherever he likes, he's got the biggest balls you've ever seen, he's a force like a rhino-drawn panzer... and so on and so on...

Agree for the most part BR, but you might be stretching it a bit comparing MVDP to Senna. Definitely the same freakish God given talent and uncompromising will to win and defy the limits, but Senna basically took 177M of his countrymen on his back, and his foundation is still doing incredible things for children in Brazil to this day.

 

[senna6541]

Strade last year was a good example, yes. There have been plenty of fans that kept claiming he is a great climber. Yet he never showed anything close to being a great climber since turning pro. This was because he never actually tried, obviously. Algarve also. Where he dropped quite early on the climb, while Greg Van Avermaet and Geschke followed Lopez, Evenepoel and Schachmann into the final 1k. On Malhao he was going to test himself to see how he 'd cope with short steep climbs, he finished way behind Van Avermaet etc again. Same story. The climbing myth finally died in the stage he lost his yellow jersey in the TDF. He was in shape, and he had an incentive, yet he finished 15 minutes behind Van Aert (who was also trying to take yellow).

No real MVDP fanboy thinks he can be, or should try to be a climber - or a GC guy. How the hell WVA manages to climb like he does I'll never know, but I hope MVDP never even tries to do whatever it would take for him to hang with 130lb skeletons up mountains. Not a big fan of TT's either, but I will say, on on a technical course MVDP would have a huge advantage if he ever decided to get at least semi-serious about TT. He obviously has the engine to match anyone in the world.