Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

There’s a difference between ringing a doorbell once or twice and repeatedly doing it.

Yeah, these teenagers harassed MVDP and his girlfriend for hours on end. That's not normal behavior for kids with a halfway decent upbringing.

 

[AlfaLum]

There’s a difference between ringing a doorbell once or twice and repeatedly doing it.

Clearly, as I stated, three hours is way too long. Still van der Poel had a lot of solutions at hand that where way better than what he did here (Where it would never have come to it being repeatedly done for three hours). Chasing girls into their hotel room is just a big mistake. Which he has agreed with by now.

And I just don't like being called an idiot. Especially not over something I deem completely acceptable behavior.

 

[Extinction]

What about all the kids - many of whom have lost classmates and friends - who are fighting to decrease the risk of that happening?

Of course, every generation will have bad people. And every generation will have good people.

Mass murder by kids at school is a recent development that speaks of a sickening of the mental heath of youth, despite all the psychological pedagogy that's supposed to rear them well.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

FFS is this still being discussed? Let it go.......It happened, he's back home, life goes on. It's like dogs with a bone....

 

[SHAD0W93]

Clearly, as I stated, three hours is way too long. Still van der Poel had a lot of solutions at hand that where way better than what he did here (Where it would never have come to it being repeatedly done for three hours). Chasing girls into their hotel room is just a big mistake. Which he has agreed with by now.

And I just don't like being called an idiot. Especially not over something I deem completely acceptable behavior.

Oh I didn’t see that part, my bad. And yes I agree with the rest.

 

[hrotha]

Columbine??? Et al! I don't share your optimism.

What the hell are you on about, Columbine? Columbine was 23 years ago, what do you mean "kids these days"? Do I need to dig up quotes from ancient Rome and even Sumer about how spoilt them youngsters are?

 

[RedheadDane]

Mass murder by kids at school is a recent development that speaks of a sickening of the mental heath of youth, despite all the psychological pedagogy that's supposed to rear them well.

The vast majority of kids do not commit mass murder. And, as hrotha just pointed out; Columbine was 23 years ago! Or do you think everything since the 80es is "recent"? Do you think not just cycling, but life in general, was "the best" in the 80es?
I stand by what I said; the kids will mostly be okay. Even those two girls could turn out just fine.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Lol, be a bit more respectful mate. With your saint like standards.
Children ringing doorbells once in a while, makes them idiots..
Really hope you don't have any children yourself, cause it must be horrible growing up with a father like you.
Probably they will end up behind screens at the age of 6 the entire day, telling the whole world how to behave better instead of playing outside once in a while.

The children were repeatedly harassing Van Der Poel, playing outside does not mean harass someone. It means kick the soccer ball, play catch, or ride your bike. Harassing someone does not fall under those categories.

 

[Extinction]

Basically the level of mental health issues among today's youth, and going back some decades, seems to have grown considerably. Almost everyone has, or claims to have, some learning disability. The level of expectation and hence anxiety among today's youth has consequences from chronic depression to mass murder. It's not about those in the majority not shooting down their classmates after having been locked in their rooms on social media for months (with the parents not giving a damn), but the unsettling frequency with which such heinous crimes are committed, an unprecedented phenomenon, dispite the fact that, yes, even ancient Romans complained about the lack of discipline and virtue of the day's youth.

 

[AlfaLum]

The children were repeatedly harassing Van Der Poel, playing outside does not mean harass someone. It means kick the soccer ball, play catch, or ride your bike. Harassing someone does not fall under those categories.

If you want to react then please do so based on the entire discussion and not just be reading one comment. As I have stated before, three hours of knocking a door is way too long. And obviously is not the same as playing outside. However, I was called an idiot because I still remember that as a child I also annoyed some people a couple of times with friends by ringing their door bell. (A couple of times, Not for three hours at a time)

Of course the children took it a step too far. But what van der Poel did, being an adult is just worse. He could have stopped the behavior after way less than three hours probably by calling anyone from an entire list of people, but he did not think of that solution apparently. And because he did not think of that solution the situation led to so much frustration that he chased children in their own hotel room and pushed one to the ground.

Now, people how are very young often learn what is right and what is wrong by walking the boundaries until others make clear what is acceptable. But you do not draw those boundaries by chasing them into their hotel room and pushing them to the ground. You draw those boundaries by talking to their parents, the hotel reception, asking your national team staff to solve it or asking Alpecin-Fenix staff to solve it.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

By setting the example that harassing people is not okay, especially when they tell you to stop. What if they do it to the wrong person and they get killed, raped, kidnapped, or beat up. My parents would have grounded me and made me stand in the corner with my hands up. My fiancés would have gave her a spanking. There’s things the parents can do to show that the behavior isn’t okay or acceptable.

And you have some knowledge that the parents of these kids have not tried to instil values into them? At my school, there was corporal punishment, and do you know who the kids receiving it were? The same ones that received it the week before.
Kids, to widely varying degrees, lack self-restraint; they also vary greatly in how much they lack fear (on the whole, we as cycling fans admire those who lack fear when they can channel that into their sporting performance) and therefore in how quickly and consistently they learn from adult advice, instruction or sanction. But none of us are qualified to say that these parents have not made every effort to teach their kids right from wrong: the lesson has simply not yet be learned.

It might be that they have been thoroughly delinquent as parents, and have made no effort to instill their children with any sense of responsibility at all: I can't say that is not so. But none of us know that to be the case, and all the judgemental comments here are made from a position of ignorance. And while total parental dereliction of duty is very rare, kids finding the combination of peer pressure, the excitement of being in a different environment, the beginning of the school holidays, and the opportunity to wind up someone who has already shown that they will rise to the bait an irresistible combination, even when they know they will be in trouble if caught, does not surprise me in the least.

She should have apologized for her daughter's behavior and deperived her of something for a while. In other words, teach the creature a lesson.

And you absolutely know that she didn't do that? How?
The father has already said that of the girls 'But they did get in trouble. They are in trouble,'

Because it was going on for 3 hours... There is being childish, and then harassing someone. That line was definitely passed, and just because you are 14 years old you don't get a free pass.

And nobody has suggested that they should, least of all their father.

 

[tobydawq]

Lol, be a bit more respectful mate. With your saint like standards.
Children ringing doorbells once in a while, makes them idiots..
Really hope you don't have any children yourself, cause it must be horrible growing up with a father like you.
Probably they will end up behind screens at the age of 6 the entire day, telling the whole world how to behave better instead of playing outside once in a while.

I don't.

And I wouldn't be strict, I would just be inwardly embarrassed.

 

[SHAD0W93]

And you have some knowledge that the parents of these kids have not tried to instil values into them? At my school, there was corporal punishment, and do you know who the kids receiving it were? The same ones that received it the week before.
Kids, to widely varying degrees, lack self-restraint; they also vary greatly in how much they lack fear (on the whole, we as cycling fans admire those who lack fear when they can channel that into their sporting performance) and therefore in how quickly and consistently they learn from adult advice, instruction or sanction. But none of us are qualified to say that these parents have not made every effort to teach their kids right from wrong: the lesson has simply not yet be learned.

It might be that they have been thoroughly delinquent as parents, and have made no effort to instill their children with any sense of responsibility at all: I can't say that is not so. But none of us know that to be the case, and all the judgemental comments here are made from a position of ignorance. And while total parental dereliction of duty is very rare, kids finding the combination of peer pressure, the excitement of being in a different environment, and the opportunity to wind up someone who has already shown that they will rise to the bait an irresistible combination, even when they know they will be in trouble if caught, does not surprise me in the least.

It was already established that the parents knew the kids would do this and we’re complacent in it. What value is that? They could have very well instilled other values but they failed on this one as of now.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Should I start a parenting thread?

 

[tobydawq]

Should I start a parenting thread?

Ask your mom.

 

[AlfaLum]

Should I start a parenting thread?

Please do! And let me know how good Masnada is at raising children and if Pozzato and van Aert will use similar parenting styles.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Should I start a parenting thread?

Leave Adrie out of this.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

It was already established that the parents knew the kids would do this

Patent nonsense. How could they have known it? They might not have been totally surprised at it, but that doesn't mean that they didn't hope, or have good reason to hope, that the children had learned/matured.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Patent nonsense. How could they have known it? They might not have been totally surprised at it, but that doesn't mean that they didn't hope, or have good reason to hope, that the children had learned/matured.

When left to their own devices teenagers can be really stupid.

 

[dazaau]

Patent nonsense. How could they have known it? They might not have been totally surprised at it, but that doesn't mean that they didn't hope, or have good reason to hope, that the children had learned/matured.

Apparently, Dutch journalists have been in contact with the older sister of the girls who played knock-and-run and she sent them the videos with consent of the parents. (https://www.hln.be/wk-wielrennen/ti...u-van-der-poel-je-hebt-ons-bedreigd~adc33b17/)

Interesting parts in the story:

• They didn't know there was a WC cycling, they were on vacation and had no idea who VDP was.
• The girls were in one room with the parents in the other room. The parents thought the girls were watching a horror movie but the older sister was in the bathroom while the younger sisters were playing knock-and-run. According to the older sister, the younger sisters frequently play knock-and-run in hotels and the parents know about that.
• Before the knock-and-run which is on video and shows VDP chasing the girls into their room, they already played knock-and-run on his door multiple times that evening and even in the afternoon (according to VDP).
• According to the older sister, the parents don't care much about what the girls did but they are mad at VDP and think he got off too easily with a fine.
• The oldest sister feels somewhat bad that VDP had to miss a night's sleep for such an important race over this but her younger sister apparently doesn't care.

But as has been pointed out none of us know the truth / full story. Let's just hope everyone learns from this and be thankful it hasn't been worse.

I look forward to some cycling again soon.

 

[Berniece]

And nobody has suggested that they should, least of all their father.

Oh please that father... It's obvious the crazy wife wears the pants in that relation.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Is there still any doubt that both parties are very much at fault here? The kids were repeat offenders, and as such, the parents are to blame. They knew it happened before, they failed at disciplining, educating and/or supervising their kids to make sure it would not happen again. There is no need to get into parenting discussions about how to educate children, that's completely besides the matter. The thing is, whatever they did, however they chose to address the issue, they failed. Let's not pretend knocking someone's door at night for hours on end is anything else than harassment.
Van der Poel on the other hand has, to me at least, crossed a line by entering the room of the girls. This is what i find the most inexcusable. He claims he only grabbed one kid by the arm, if that had happened as he caught her red handed trying to knock his door in the hallway, i could somewhat understand that, but chasing them into and entering their room is a totally different matter. It was their room, their safe place. The equivalent of their home away from home. You don't barge into someone's home like that, regardless of what happened prior.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Oh please that father... It's obvious the crazy wife wears the pants in that relation.

I find it extraordinary that people consider themselves entitled to make such crass judgements on the grounds of absolutely zero evidence. Have you ever even heard the two parents communicate with each other? Do you know the first thing about their family circumstances or arrangements?

I find it equally extraordinary that peole feel any need to leap to conclusions about people they will almost certainly never meet or have any interaction with. Why are you in any way bothered about how decisions are reached in that household?

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Britain's Daily Mail digging deeper. Now they have the other girl's dad saying it should have been a jail sentence.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...n-der-Poel-locked-assault-Novotel-Sydney.html

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

When left to their own devices teenagers can be really stupid.

I'm a teacher: I don't need to be told that. The inhibitors on their behaviour (wisdom, consideration, fear, conscience) are undeveloped. And wishing that not to be the case, and many attempts to move that situation forward, will not be successful. I have known parents absolutely at the end of their tethers, having tried every form of sanction or cajoling that they, or professionals around them, can propose and still that development of empathy and order in their young people's lives has lagged behind that of their peers. I have seen families in which there are siblings who have developed mature reasoning (under the influence of the same parents and circumstances) at extraordinarily different rates.

But like RhD says, in the vast majority of cases, the kids are alright in the end, it is just an uncomfortable journey to get there.

So can we please have the humility to admit that we know nothing of the family in question, and have no confidence beyond presumption in passing comment on them.

And equally that we have no knowledge beyond this one situation, under stress, of how van der Poel conducts himself usually, and so we don't really have any grounds to extrapolate from opinions of how he behaved last Saturday night to anything in future races.