Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Netserk]

Okay, I meant the part of the season which comes after today.

I don't expect Mathieu to ride the Slovakian Nats, either.

He hasn't had any season where the period from February 12 to the start of the Tour of Cali matched that.

 

[Netserk]

So apart from Tour of Cali, G-W, all pre-season stage races, and either the Belgian opening weekend or Amstel or Scheldeprijs, Sagan has had 3 seasons like that (until the Slovakian Championships).

 

[tobydawq]

So apart from Tour of Cali, G-W, all pre-season stage races, and either the Belgian opening weekend or Amstel or Scheldeprijs, Sagan has had 3 seasons like that (until the Slovakian Championships).

Lol.

Forgive me for Mathieu not reestablishing the Three Days of De Panne race

I said it was Sagan-esque, not that it was 100% identical to all of Sagan's 13 seasons as a pro...

 

[senna6541]

For MVDP it will be all about finding that level he has in him that allows him to absolutely and singlehandedly train wreck the whole peloton - like only he can do. Perhaps a wet weather PR this year that he can blow to pieces. Only Wout would have the pure power necessary to stay in the wheel, but my guess is that MVDP's superior handle would be too much for Wout to overcome if both come in on equal form.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

For MVDP it will be all about finding that level he has in him that allows him to absolutely and singlehandedly train wreck the whole peloton - like only he can do. Perhaps a wet weather PR this year that he can blow to pieces. Only Wout would have the pure power necessary to stay in the wheel, but my guess is that MVDP's superior handle would be too much for Wout to overcome if both come in on equal form.

Wreck the peloton like only he can do. Which is wrecking the peloton slightly less than Evenepoel or Pogacar, you mean?

Seriously though, you should know that PR should suit Van Aert more, and Flanders should suit Van der Poel more, in theory. Flanders is much more technical with narrow climbs on cobbles, more twisting and turning, more recovery but more peak efforts. That's completely Van der Poel (and Pogacar) territory. On the other hand Roubaix is more about positioning, longer efforts, less stop/go efforts. That's more Van Aert's cup of tea. You just have to know how to ride on the cobbles, it's not that technical beyond that compared to Flanders. I doubt Mathieu's superior bikehandling skills would be decisive in Roubaix.

The issue i have with Van Aert is that, to be honest, during the classics, i have never seen him as good as during the Tour. Maybe it's not possible to have him peak twice like that. But every spring, i get the impression that he's not at his very best. And then the Tour comes around and he looks like he's a demigod toying with the competition.

 

[Nick2413]

For MVDP it will be all about finding that level he has in him that allows him to absolutely and singlehandedly train wreck the whole peloton - like only he can do. Perhaps a wet weather PR this year that he can blow to pieces. Only Wout would have the pure power necessary to stay in the wheel, but my guess is that MVDP's superior handle would be too much for Wout to overcome if both come in on equal form.

What about 2021 with those exact conditions?

 

[Nick2413]

Wreck the peloton like only he can do. Which is wrecking the peloton slightly less than Evenepoel or Pogacar, you mean?

Seriously though, you should know that PR should suit Van Aert more, and Flanders should suit Van der Poel more, in theory. Flanders is much more technical with narrow climbs on cobbles, more twisting and turning, more recovery but more peak efforts. That's completely Van der Poel (and Pogacar) territory. On the other hand Roubaix is more about positioning, longer efforts, less stop/go efforts. That's more Van Aert's cup of tea. You just have to know how to ride on the cobbles, it's not that technical beyond that compared to Flanders. I doubt Mathieu's superior bikehandling skills would be decisive in Roubaix.

The issue i have with Van Aert is that, to be honest, during the classics, i have never seen him as good as during the Tour. Maybe it's not possible to have him peak twice like that. But every spring, i get the impression that he's not at his very best. And then the Tour comes around and he looks like he's a demigod toying with the competition.

I think he thrives in races where everybody has a built up layer of fatigue that doesn’t exist in single day races

 

[Oldermanish]

He's a part cyborg created by the Poulidor family with the sole purpose of vengeance on the entire sport of cycling

....ah yesssssss. We will at last win LeTour! Bahahaah!!!!

 

[tobydawq]

The issue i have with Van Aert is that, to be honest, during the classics, i have never seen him as good as during the Tour. Maybe it's not possible to have him peak twice like that. But every spring, i get the impression that he's not at his very best. And then the Tour comes around and he looks like he's a demigod toying with the competition.

I think he had that aura last year before he contracted Covid.

 

[Boes]

The issue i have with Van Aert is that, to be honest, during the classics, i have never seen him as good as during the Tour. Maybe it's not possible to have him peak twice like that. But every spring, i get the impression that he's not at his very best. And then the Tour comes around and he looks like he's a demigod toying with the competition.

This. I agree 100%.
There are probably several reasons why this is. One of them I'd like to point out that might not be to obvious is the heat.

He's always super strong when it's warm. Every year in the tour, the Strade and MSR he won was also in Covid summer 40 degrees if I'm not mistaking.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

The issue i have with Van Aert is that, to be honest, during the classics, i have never seen him as good as during the Tour. Maybe it's not possible to have him peak twice like that. But every spring, i get the impression that he's not at his very best.

He is at his best in the spring , he is just tactically clueless a lot of the time. If it was a watts contest he would win

 

[Barkintheeye]

He is at his best in the spring , he is just tactically clueless a lot of the time. If it was a watts contest he would win

That could be but do you have any examples?

I completely agree that many of the spring classics take a lot more than just superior power. The overall intensity and the chaos in the peloton in advance of technical segments like Arenberg, Koppenberg etc can make or brake your day.

Yet Wout has done really well in many of the spring classics (MSR etc) so I don't quite see him lacking tactical ability...

 

[Nick2413]

That could be but do you have any examples?

I completely agree that many of the spring classics take a lot more than just superior power. The overall intensity and the chaos in the peloton in advance of technical segments like Arenberg, Koppenberg etc can make or brake your day.

Yet Wout has done really well in many of the spring classics (MSR etc) so I don't quite see him lacking tactical ability...

I don’t have many specifics but I recall him missing the decisive move quite a few times in big races. Always being up there then not being around when a few riders break clear. Following/betting on the wrong person kind of thing. For how huge of a TT engine he has it’s surprising how rarely he rides away from the field or makes moves himself.

 

[Blanco]

The issue i have with Van Aert is that, to be honest, during the classics, i have never seen him as good as during the Tour. Maybe it's not possible to have him peak twice like that. But every spring, i get the impression that he's not at his very best. And then the Tour comes around and he looks like he's a demigod toying with the competition.

Bingo!
He's trying to be on top of his game basically a whole year, and he generally even succeeds in that. But the price is the biggest classics, or the lack of it, if you know what I mean.
Now, we had some riders in the past who could do this thing regularly, year in - year out. We had one rider who was doing this for the last 20 years, but even he needed to calculate, and time his peak twice a year, in April and September.
Back to Van Aert, he really needs to forget about peaking for the Tour. I mean he should come good, but not absolutely the best. Cause the Tour is not the race that will define his career. Look at other classics big names: Boonen, Cancellara, Bettini, Gilbert, they were not obsessed with the Tour at all, some were not riding, some were riding good, some were very good, but their absolute best was reserved for one day monuments and the worlds. Heck even Valverde being also a GC rider, didn't considered the Tour as important as some other races, in which he had better chances.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

There was an update to his schedule that now also includes E3. They are clearly going for a quality over quantity approach this season.

04-03 Strade Bianche

06-03 - 12-03 Tirreno-Adriatico

18-03 Milano-Sanremo

24-03 E3 Saxo Classic

02-04 Ronde van Vlaanderen

09-04 Paris-Roubaix

11-06 - 18-06 Tour de Suisse

01-07 - 23-07 Tour de France

06-08 UCI World Championships - Road Race

In Tirreno MvdP will face WVA, Girmay and Alaphilippe. Long, hard stages. I hope the big names will not again peak a little bit too early, and be better in Tirreno than in the actual Classics.

 

[frisenfruitig]

Bingo!
He's trying to be on top of his game basically a whole year, and he generally even succeeds in that. But the price is the biggest classics, or the lack of it, if you know what I mean.
Now, we had some riders in the past who could do this thing regularly, year in - year out. We had one rider who was doing this for the last 20 years, but even he needed to calculate, and time his peak twice a year, in April and September.
Back to Van Aert, he really needs to forget about peaking for the Tour. I mean he should come good, but not absolutely the best. Cause the Tour is not the race that will define his career. Look at other classics big names: Boonen, Cancellara, Bettini, Gilbert, they were not obsessed with the Tour at all, some were not riding, some were riding good, some were very good, but their absolute best was reserved for one day monuments and the worlds. Heck even Valverde being also a GC rider, didn't considered the Tour as important as some other races, in which he had better chances.

I agree with this but the problem is that the TDF is the biggest and most popular cycling event in the world. Personally I prefer watching the big monuments but the question is what the team management and sponsors consider the most important.

And I'm pretty sure the answer is the TDF, sadly. Considering he has proven to be a sure bet on multiple stage wins and is also capable of supporting the GC guys I don't think they will allow him to change that.

 

[Berniece]

In Tirreno MvdP will face WVA, Girmay and Alaphilippe. Long, hard stages. I hope the big names will not again peak a little bit too early, and be better in Tirreno than in the actual Classics.

I would hope they learned their lessons after last time

 

[Netserk]

Bingo!
He's trying to be on top of his game basically a whole year, and he generally even succeeds in that. But the price is the biggest classics, or the lack of it, if you know what I mean.
Now, we had some riders in the past who could do this thing regularly, year in - year out. We had one rider who was doing this for the last 20 years, but even he needed to calculate, and time his peak twice a year, in April and September.
Back to Van Aert, he really needs to forget about peaking for the Tour. I mean he should come good, but not absolutely the best. Cause the Tour is not the race that will define his career. Look at other classics big names: Boonen, Cancellara, Bettini, Gilbert, they were not obsessed with the Tour at all, some were not riding, some were riding good, some were very good, but their absolute best was reserved for one day monuments and the worlds. Heck even Valverde being also a GC rider, didn't considered the Tour as important as some other races, in which he had better chances.

With regard to the focus on the Tour, I think Sagan makes for a better comparison. A similarly great part of his market value was based on his Tour performances. It was a bit easier for Cancellara, who only really needed to be good for the first day.

 

[Nick2413]

Bingo!
He's trying to be on top of his game basically a whole year, and he generally even succeeds in that. But the price is the biggest classics, or the lack of it, if you know what I mean.
Now, we had some riders in the past who could do this thing regularly, year in - year out. We had one rider who was doing this for the last 20 years, but even he needed to calculate, and time his peak twice a year, in April and September.
Back to Van Aert, he really needs to forget about peaking for the Tour. I mean he should come good, but not absolutely the best. Cause the Tour is not the race that will define his career. Look at other classics big names: Boonen, Cancellara, Bettini, Gilbert, they were not obsessed with the Tour at all, some were not riding, some were riding good, some were very good, but their absolute best was reserved for one day monuments and the worlds. Heck even Valverde being also a GC rider, didn't considered the Tour as important as some other races, in which he had better chances.

The allure of being king of the peloton at the Tour seems too hard to break away from. His form in the classics is good enough that he probably doesn’t see the value in it, but that extra half step up he’d get by peaking more for the classics might be what is necessary to finally win the big races.

 

[senna6541]

What about 2021 with those exact conditions?

Exactly. He had horrible prep and still managed to come into the velodrome with a shot for the win. He was nowhere near is best in that race, but his handle gave him a huge advantage. If he comes in to that race on form those gaps he opens on every nasty corner don't get covered and he is long gone.

 

[senna6541]

Bingo!
He's trying to be on top of his game basically a whole year, and he generally even succeeds in that. But the price is the biggest classics, or the lack of it, if you know what I mean.
Now, we had some riders in the past who could do this thing regularly, year in - year out. We had one rider who was doing this for the last 20 years, but even he needed to calculate, and time his peak twice a year, in April and September.
Back to Van Aert, he really needs to forget about peaking for the Tour. I mean he should come good, but not absolutely the best. Cause the Tour is not the race that will define his career. Look at other classics big names: Boonen, Cancellara, Bettini, Gilbert, they were not obsessed with the Tour at all, some were not riding, some were riding good, some were very good, but their absolute best was reserved for one day monuments and the worlds. Heck even Valverde being also a GC rider, didn't considered the Tour as important as some other races, in which he had better chances.

Exactly. As much as JV has helped Wout, it has hurt him too. No way a guy with his freakish God given talent should be doing any sort of grunt work for less talented, scrawny, power to weight beholden GC guys. Honestly, a GC guy like VG isn't in the same class an athlete as someone like MVDP (or Wout). Cycling is only a team sport for the guys who aren't good enough to win races on their own. TDF stage wins and green jerseys won't count for much in the end for Wout. For all MVDP's issues, he's got two RVV's in the bag. If Wout doesn't win RVV or PR this year he should seriously reconsider the path he his on with JV.

 

[senna6541]

Everyone talks about '21 TA, but recall watching this one back in '20. Showed MVDP was back after being off form in the weird covid year. In the break and then chased everyone down late.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU5s0XACZRU
.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Exactly. As much as JV has helped Wout, it has hurt him too. No way a guy with his freakish God given talent should be doing any sort of grunt work for less talented, scrawny, power to weight beholden GC guys.

Correct. I would very much like to see the absolute peak form best version of Wout at this year's spring classics - up against a Van der Poel without back problems and a Pog focused to win RVV and MSR and a Evenepoel without any excuses racing Strade, RVV, MSR and PR. That would be the ultimate showdown(s) of 2023. TDF and Giro, I care but very much less so than the spring classics.

 

[senna6541]

MVDP probably chomping hard on the bit watching Pogi this week. Another nice scenario for him (similar to CX Worlds) to come into SB as the "underdog". Meanwhile, in his own mind thinking, "I'm going to destroy this guy." Not sure what his strategy will be, but I see him winning SB. Doubt he will come out guns blazing like he did at the CX Worlds. Probably best to follow Pogi and then blow him up in the finale.

 

[DaLong]

Any word on his training? All is silent, is he chilling in Belgium or enjoying that Italian scenery?

Saw this article: GvA says Omloop would have extra "cachet" with WvA/MvdP there. Greg's becoming quite the commentator lately.