Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[DNP-Old]

So he shouldn't try then..?

How the hell is this the message you got from my post, can I genuinely ask?

 

[Blanco]

How the hell is this the message you got from my post, can I genuinely ask?

We're talking about future goals for him, and I mentioned that Olympics could be a realistic goal, then you post that you fail to see how anything related to Olympics RR could be a realistic goal...
Is that enough?

 

[jaylew]

I fail to see how anything Olympics RR related is realistic to anyone. As of next year there's hardly 90 riders starting, with the biggest teams consisting of no less than 4 riders. That thing could legit be over from the very first meter.

I'm not understanding your meaning here. You're saying that the Olympics will have a smaller field and that the biggest teams will have at least 4 riders. Why does that make it hard to target?

 

[DaLong]

I do think that's why Mathieu alluded to his career being nearly complete, no one can realistically bank on an Olympic victory but it sure would be a nice cherry on top.

 

[Sciatic]

This is one of those funny forum discussions where folks think they’re all talking about the same thing but they’re apparently not. First of all, if the quote is correctly translated, his statement “my palmares is almost complete” on face value suggests he has (perhaps has long had) an idea of what his his ideal palmares would look like—what were the races most important to him he wanted to win. He’s not saying he has almost completed someone else’s idea of what his palmares should be or some mythical notion of what a rider of his caliber should have won in his career. He had a set of boxes he wanted to check off and he’s almost finished. He doesn’t seem to be saying (just from that one phrase) that his career is nearly complete.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I'm not understanding your meaning here. You're saying that the Olympics will have a smaller field and that the biggest teams will have at least 4 riders. Why does that make it hard to target?

Because there’s less teammates to control the race meaning a breakaway can stay away, and as they’re all going to be strong riders for the most part harder to pull back. Thus the leaders are going to have to respond more and if MVDP is in this shape, I doubt the others will close the gaps for him.

Or if he decides to drop off the back again to save energy and have others pull him back, isn’t a viable strategy here.

 

[jaylew]

Because there’s less teammates to control the race meaning a breakaway can stay away, and as they’re all going to be strong riders for the most part harder to pull back. Thus the leaders are going to have to respond more and if MVDP is in this shape, I doubt the others will close the gaps for him.

Or if he decides to drop off the back again to save energy and have others pull him back, isn’t a viable strategy here.

Can't say I completely agree with this logic but ok. Is that 4 riders mentioned supposed to be the max # per team? It was written as if the biggest teams would have at least 4 riders.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Can't say I completely agree with this logic but ok. Is that 4 riders mentioned supposed to be the max # per team? It was written as if the biggest teams would have at least 4 riders.

Yes, 4 riders max per team for the best nations. Down from the previous 5 and we saw have it went for GB trying to control the Olympics with four riders to set up their sprinter.

 

[jaylew]

Ahh. DNP wrote "no less than 4" and it confused me.

 

[Black Betsy]

Lost the bet, besting Piti's palmares in 2023, but I was close! I will have to put a shimano sticker on the top tube till the end of the year.

 

[proffate]

I fail to see how anything Olympics RR related is realistic to anyone. As of next year there's hardly 90 riders starting, with the biggest teams consisting of no less than 4 riders. That thing could legit be over from the very first meter.

Sounds utterly chaotic. He'll be the favorite.

 

[DNP-Old]

Sounds utterly chaotic. He'll be the favorite.

Everybody is a favorite, therefore nobody is. It is such an anomaly that logic, realism, course design and every other word in the book doesn’t matter. Even more than it already was. A big engine like Remco could attack in the first hour and never be seen again.

Some countries will have to make crazy, insane team selections. Philipsen and De Lie could win ten stages combined in next years Tour and not even be up for consideration. Slovenia might have to cut one of Roglic, Mohoric or Pogacar.

There is little to no help for anyone, there are no ear pieces so you don’t even know if you’re controlling it right. It’ll be carnage.

 

[meat puppet]

The real question is if there will be a designated break for the big poopoo.

No but seriously, a fully chaotic Olympic road race with small teams sounds great.

 

[Peter von]

Those Canadian races should be perfect for him.

You know you are in the middle of a stellar season when winning those two doesn’t really move the needle that much.

but yes a Canadian race are good and sprinkle in the odd Paris-Tours or something

 

[Salvarani]

More of a lottery than the Worlds RR!

Sure, but probably something he would like to win or something he may have been refering to with "palmares almost complete". The question is road or MTB. He got unfinished business with the latter.

 

[meat puppet]

Should aim for road, of course. XCO is interesting in its own right but still the little cousin.

 

[gavia88]

After the race he said his palmares was almost complete. What is he missing that is realistically within his capabilities? Lombardia and Liege are possible in the perfect conditions and with a bit of luck I would think

Well, I think there are still quite a few races and goals on which he can focus I think:

- an olympic gold medal (whatever discipline)

-World titel MTB

-add World title gravel and some track event to have a world title in 2 extra disciplines

-a stage and wearing the red jersey in the Vuelta (like he did already both in Tour and Giro)

-European title on the road

-completing the 5 monuments (but this is really stretching his fysical possibilities probably)

-green jersey in the Tour

-collecting some more stages in the Tour

-showing his versatility by winning a (medium) mountain stage and/or prologue in Tour (or Giro or Vuelta), like riders like van Aert and Sagan did in the past

-collecting a win in all big cobbled classic (surprisingly many gaps on his palmares regarding those races), so Omloop het Nieuwsblad, Kuurne, GW, E-3, Nokere, le Samyn, Scheldeprijs and Paris-Brussels

-getting the RVV record (4 wins)

-getting on the same number of Cyclocross world titles like Erik de Vlaeminck (so 7)

-winning the world cup classification in MTB

-winning a stage in all big stage races below the grand tours (so, ha already has 3 in Tireno and 2 in Swiss, so that means still a stage in PN, Bask Country, Catalonia, Romandie and Dauphine)

-winning some races in own country, like Veenendaal - Veenendaal and Volta Limburg classic or better if one of the grand tours will begin again in the Netherlands

-winning some other semi-classics, like
-Paris - Tours, Fleche Wallon, Plouay, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Quebec,
Montreal, Italian semi-classics

-Dutch national title in ITT

 

[Red Rick]

The next goal should simply be to win more of the same. Plus have a crack at the Olymics. Right now he's not the greatest Dutch rider ever, he's just another Dutch Jan Raas.

I can live without Strive for Five. Just as I can live without the lesser classics such as Plouay, Hamburg, etc

Vuelta stage I can see but that's simply because he really experienced the benefit of finishing a GT in good form now so maybe he'll do the Vuelta for Worlds prep some day.

 

[gavia88]

The next goal should simply be to win more of the same. Plus have a crack at the Olymics. Right now he's not the greatest Dutch rider ever, he's just another Dutch Jan Raas.

I can live without Strive for Five. Just as I can live without the lesser classics such as Plouay, Hamburg, etc

Vuelta stage I can see but that's simply because he really experienced the benefit of finishing a GT in good form now so maybe he'll do the Vuelta for Worlds prep some day.

oh, I agree, a race like Plouay or Hamburg never should be a goal on itself. And I don't think MvdP really wil get animated with such a race as an objective. As I think MvdP can live himself without a stage in Romandie. But well, just made a comprehensive list of possible interesting races on his palmares. I mean there clearly is a difference in importancy of the races mentioned in the list.

 

[Red Rick]

oh, I agree, a race like Plouay or Hamburg never should be a goal on itself. And I don't think MvdP really wil get animated with such a race as an objective. As I think MvdP can live himself without a stage in Romandie. But well, just made a comprehensive list of possible interesting races on his palmares. I mean there clearly is a difference in importancy of the races mentioned in the list.

I think the simple priority should be to strike while the iron is hot and rack up the big ones while he can. Liege I think may be worth trying if you're still feeling good but he shouldn't try to lose weight for it. Lombardia is out of question on current routes and that's okay.

I think he has the talent to be the greatest cobbled racer of all time, but the question is also how motivated he'll be by records. Somehow I don't think MvdP is the sort of guy that will live like a monk until he's in his mid to late 30s.

 

[Aimar16]

Should aim for road, of course. XCO is interesting in its own right but still the little cousin.

Road or XCO, I don't think there is a difference. You're winning an Olympic gold medal anyway.

 

[magliaroz]

Road or XCO, I don't think there is a difference. You're winning an Olympic gold medal anyway.

Fans of cycling in all its forms may not like it, but Road Race achievements are what really matters and really makes history.
This one RR World Title is already bigger than the 5 times he won it in Cyclocross.
Pidcock's stage win in TdF is more relevant than his Olympic Gold in MTB for sure too.
It sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[meat puppet]

Road or XCO, I don't think there is a difference. You're winning an Olympic gold medal anyway.

Well I do. The road peloton consists of a deeper field of ultimately better athletes. So, as the French know, it is "la rue" that determines what counts

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Sorry to disagree, but the XCO Olympic gold is the premier title in MTB racing. That's not the case for the Road Olympic title.....
There's some classic roadie ignorance on display.....

 

[Netserk]

Liège makes sense as a "free" bonus target in 2025-2027, but not next year, where he'll have plenty on his plate later.