Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Volderke]

Oh noes, they said mean things to him?

That was not the point. The point was that I was reacting to someone bringing up stupid virtual reality “for the sake of argument”. It’s clear that someone wants to argue, no matter how stupid the argument is. But as someone smart once said, you can’t argue with stupid. I won’t spit though, I have a handy ignore button 😀

 

[Sciatic]

Isn't booing a normal part of sports? Booing doesn't deserve to be spit at???

In my experience it is, but maybe it depends on the society/ culture you’re in. Lustily booing the opponent seems to be part of the civil code for at US stadiums

 

[RedheadDane]

and the fans can’t boo (mvdp) and cheer (for Wva) at the same time when they’re both passing at the same moment 😀

I suppose they could try... though, I dunno if they'd be chooing, or beering...
Though, someone cheering doesn't actually yell "cheer".

 

[jono]

Why would mvdp spit (or react in any way) at innocent fans? When innocent fans aren’t booing, nothing will happen. He spat because he heard them booing.

He is booed nearly every minute of every cross in Belgium. Whether it was urine or some verbal gymnastics, I can only assume today's treatment was much beyond the usual. It does not excuse his actions, of course.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

We actually agree 100% here; I would welcome the riders having that kind of recourse and support. One problem is of course the riders would have to be very unified; most of these guys are pack filler with zero to no clout on their own. Easier said than done.
I disagree Mathieu is sinking to their level though; the idiot 'fans' go to the race with their actions planned, MVDPs response is heat of the moment. There is a difference.

Except that he cycled a 7 1/2 minute lap between the last time he saw them and his response.
I also very much doubt that drunken loutish behaviour is planned before they left the house.

 

[DaLong]

He retweeted that post about urine and beer and he said in the interview that he won't repeat what they were saying. It sounds like an extreme situation.

 

[scribers]

He is booed nearly every minute of every cross in Belgium. Whether it was urine or some verbal gymnastics, I can only assume today's treatment was much beyond the usual. It does not excuse his actions, of course.

You see, this is where the problem rests with race organizers and local jurisdictions. Just remove people and prosecute them. Such behavior cannot be permitted anywhere in society.

 

[Volderke]

He is booed nearly every minute of every cross in Belgium. Whether it was urine or some verbal gymnastics, I can only assume today's treatment was much beyond the usual. It does not excuse his actions, of course.

You have booing, and that’s unavoidable, but you also have those who wish diseases upon your mom, shout that your girlfriend is a prostitute, that you are using doping, etcetera. It normally is confined to booing, but I can imagine when ugly things are said (especially during Xmas holidays with hooligans / fans having time to go and watch a cross while getting drunk), it can get under your skin.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I would defend e.g. the jewelry shop owner who shoots a burglar after he has been robbed for the 3rd time in 3 years (real life example), and I would defend police all the same when they face life-threatening situations. At the same time I won’t defend all those people all the time. If it turns out mvdp spat at those people because of all frustrations of the past week with other fans booing and he‘s partly reacting on this group of fans that didn’t do all that much, it wasn’t proportional. But as said, I give him the benefit of doubt. I don’t give him any credit for what he did (the spitting), but whatever he would do, he is always losing. If he doesn’t do anything, those “fans” feel they can get away with it. If he does something, he gets the forum mob.

I'm not talking about life threatening situations. I'm talking about people who face obscene unjustifiable insult everyday in the course of their work, and are expected to show professional restraint in their response.
Do you not think that the same should be asked of sportsmen?

And if not, why not?

 

[Hugh Januss]

You see, this is where the problem rests with race organizers and local jurisdictions. Just remove people and prosecute them. Such behavior cannot be permitted anywhere in society.

Can't remove paying customers for booing and heckling, throwing things is another issue altogether. If it was only booing then VdP might need to toughen up, if it was throwing beer or anything else then the race organizers need to boot the offenders out. Any exchanging of bodily fluids from either side needs to be treated as assault.

 

[Hugh Januss]

That was not the point. The point was that I was reacting to someone bringing up stupid virtual reality “for the sake of argument”. It’s clear that someone wants to argue, no matter how stupid the argument is. But as someone smart once said, you can’t argue with stupid. I won’t spit though, I have a handy ignore button 😀

Just say that my point went over your head then.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Errr. The difference is that those fans provoked. Mvdp reacted. Are you arguing that a reaction by mvdp is, all of a sudden, to be seen as a provocation? How much more can you twist reality?

Way to not read the question, as you did with Hugh when he proposed a situation of mistaken identity a couple of posts above. I said "or someone else who got collateral spittle" and I was writing in response to someone who said "i don't blame his reaction, he is human, he have emotions. If someone spits in you, or punches you, you will not do nothing?", who did not restrict his comments to exclude retaliation.

 

[Unchained]

No way, lol.

Ratings will only go up from this.

MVDP vs drunk Belgian fans… I know who I want to win.

Who you want to win and who will win is maybe different. I really don't understand what fun it could be to spit on each other as offense or defense. Pitching piss on a passing rider is really bizarre, trying to visualize the logistics for a male or female offender.. You pee in a cup or bottle and carry it around until you come to your delivery point and toss it on Van derPoel as he pedals by? Not bike racing I enjoy. And I know for a fact that throwing urine on people is not a common greeting in Belgium!! If I was guzzling beer watching a race and saw someone spit or toss liquid on a rider we would have words, sure it's exactly the same for every Belgian I know.
Very different in American sports if somehow, seemingly impossible.. If you spit on an NBA,NFL, or NHL player.. Tossing your discharge on them!! Never seen it.. but if it were to happen and you were caught yikes..but for sure hospital and the police would be involved, maybe a funeral service!!
I have been to many races and I got there drunk and left more drunk, ate my body weight in frites, kebab and curry ketchup, and I produced urine while I was there, beer brings out something in me..but throwing my pee and spitting on people isn't it.. I have been told I am an excellent dancer.. Only by people drinking

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[Froome]

He retweeted that post about urine and beer and he said in the interview that he won't repeat what they were saying. It sounds like an extreme situation.

They did something really bad. He wouldn't spit, just because of some "boooos".

 

[Volderke]

I'm not talking about life threatening situations. I'm talking about people who face obscene unjustifiable insult everyday in the course of their work, and are expected to show professional restraint in their response.
Do you not think that the same should be asked of sportsmen?

And if not, why not?

A policeman chooses for a job that he knows involves these situations where you have to deal with idiots, and a policeman’s job is confronting these idiots and correcting their behavior. Even if so, there are a lot of cases where police abuses their powers, in many cases because they have build up frustration.

As a cx rider, you don’t chose (nor expect) dealing with idiots: a cx rider isn’t provoking anyone by riding a race and his relation to the idiots is totally different than eg a policeman who has to deal with idiots… and as nobody is correcting their behavior, it’s easy to understand when a rider takes matters in his own hands. That no defense for the actions by mvdp, but I just want to point out there is a difference.

 

[jono]

One solution to being singled out for abuse on his solo rampages and responding inappropriately: stop dropping Wout. A rival and shield.

 

[kingjr]

I'm not talking about life threatening situations. I'm talking about people who face obscene unjustifiable insult everyday in the course of their work, and are expected to show professional restraint in their response.
Do you not think that the same should be asked of sportsmen?

And if not, why not?

Let's say a guest at a restaurant verbally abuses a waiter and gets punched in the face, I'd give the waiter a massive tip for his troubles.

 

[Volderke]

Way to not read the question, as you did with Hugh when he proposed a situation of mistaken identity a couple of posts above. I said "or someone else who got collateral spittle" and I was writing in response to someone who said "i don't blame his reaction, he is human, he have emotions. If someone spits in you, or punches you, you will not do nothing?", who did not restrict his comments to exclude retaliation.

Are you still discussing the virtual reality of mvdp spitting in the wrong face? You know, the guy who kicked a stone off the road in Nokere koerse?

View: https://youtu.be/eV30AIJDJKY?si=OpgfRc3msg2K2Jb5

Mvdp knows what he’s doing, even if it’s something wrong (spitting), he won’t spit at the wrong person.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

A policeman chooses for a job that he knows involves these situations where you have to deal with idiots, and a policeman’s job is confronting these idiots and correcting their behavior. Even if so, there are a lot of cases where police abuses their powers, in many cases because they have build up frustration.

As a cx rider, you don’t chose (nor expect) dealing with idiots: a cx rider isn’t provoking anyone by riding a race and his relation to the idiots is totally different than eg a policeman who has to deal with idiots… and as nobody is correcting their behavior, it’s easy to understand when a rider takes matters in his own hands. That no defense for the actions by mvdp, but I just want to point out there is a difference.

It seems extraordinarily naive to go into a professional sporting career without thinking that the fans of opponents might not like you if you do well against them consistently. If only he had had a family connection in the sport to warn him that these things might happen.

Let's say a guest at a restaurant verbally abuses a waiter and gets punched in the face, I'd give the waiter a massive tip for his troubles.

You and I obviously have very different ideas on what constitutes a civil society.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Are you still discussing the virtual reality of mvdp spitting in the wrong face?

Still waiting for an answer, if that's what you mean.

So what do you believe should happen as a consequence of van der Poel's actions? Should the UCI (and this was at a World Cup event, so they are at one level the promoters as well as the governing body) turn a blind eye, impose a fine, or issue a suspension?

 

[jono]

Still waiting for an answer, if that's what you mean.

So what do you believe should happen as a consequence of van der Poel's actions? Should the UCI (and this was at a World Cup event, so they are at one level the promoters as well as the governing body) turn a blind eye, impose a fine, or issue a suspension?

A fine has already been issued.

 

[kingjr]

It seems extraordinarily naive to go into a professional sporting career without thinking that the fans of opponents might not like you if you do well against them consistently. If only he had had a family connection in the sport to warn him that these things might happen.

You and I obviously have very different ideas on what constitutes a civil society.

I would not have an issue with any criminal charges being filed in the above example, mind you.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

A fine has already been issued.

I hadn't seen that: thank you.

I see now: 250 Swiss Francs, just over 1.3 % of his reported appearance fee. Not perhaps enough to make him think twice, but the fact of having been penalised might. Although thinking through the consequences of his actions doesn't seem to be a strong point.

@Volderke : do you support the issuing of a fine?

 

[Hugh Januss]

I don’t give him any credit for what he did (the spitting), but whatever he would do, he is always losing. If he doesn’t do anything, those “fans” feel they can get away with it. If he does something, he gets the forum mob.

So he spit at them in your opinion to deter them from booing him next lap? Hmm, wonder if that worked.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I hadn't seen that: thank you.

I see now: 250 Swiss Francs, just over 1.3 % of his reported appearance fee. Not perhaps enough to make him think twice, but the fact of having been penalised might. Although thinking through the consequences of his actions doesn't seem to be a strong point.

@Volderke : do you support the issuing of a fine?

No start money for World Cups, hope he doesn't have to trade in the Maserati.