Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Sciatic]

Cancellara and Boonen actually avoided each other in the monuments more often than not. Their peaks basically don't really overlap either.

That said, citing Pogacar as MvdPs primary rival makes no sense either, as Pogacar is already back to skipping all of MvdPs targets next spring.

Van Aert is MvdPs closest rival, even if the rivalry is extremely one sided.

That doesn’t sound quite right—wasn’t it their injuries that kept them racing against each other as much as we would have expected? I highly doubt either would have avoided riding RvV or Roubaix if they were healthy, since those were the two most important races in their season? But you’re right in that their peak years didn’t fully overlap.

 

[Netserk]

The second guy?

Hoste? Harsh.

 

[tobydawq]

Cancellara and Boonen actually avoided each other in the monuments more often than not. Their peaks basically don't really overlap either.

That said, citing Pogacar as MvdPs primary rival makes no sense either, as Pogacar is already back to skipping all of MvdPs targets next spring.

Van Aert is MvdPs closest rival, even if the rivalry is extremely one sided.

Pogacar has been top 4 in 4 of the 7 major one-day races where Van der Poel has been top 2...

 

[Netserk]

Very natural way to slice it. I wonder what would happen if you change those numbers.

 

[tobydawq]

Very natural way to slice it. I wonder what would happen if you change those numbers.

I don't really know how you can have watched MSR, RVV and Worlds in 2023 and come to a conclusion that Pogacar and Van der Poel are not rivals in the biggest one-day races...

 

[Netserk]

Oh, I see the only times they shared a podium in one of the biggest races have been last year. Curious.

 

[Berniece]

I don't really know how you can have watched MSR, RVV and Worlds in 2023 and come to a conclusion that Pogacar and Van der Poel are not rivals in the biggest one-day races...

Strade Bianchi in 2021 too, MSR and RVV 2022

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

I don't really know how you can have watched MSR, RVV and Worlds in 2023 and come to a conclusion that Pogacar and Van der Poel are not rivals in the biggest one-day races...

Just trying to fit an agenda, clearly these two are a great rivalry in the one day races to 90% of the race-watching audience.

 

[tobydawq]

Oh, I see the only times they shared a podium in one of the biggest races have been last year. Curious.

Yeah, it wasn't at all close to happening in RVV 22

 

[kingjr]

Rivalries are overrated.

 

[Netserk]

Yeah, it wasn't at all close to happening in RVV 22

If you want to make your point with what happened on the road (a far better argument), don't use overfitted results pattern to do so. You can be frank.

 

[tobydawq]

If you want to make your point with what happened on the road (a far better argument), don't use overfitted results pattern to do so. You can be frank.

It would be nice if you at some point stopped trying to decide how I am to write my posts.

 

[Netserk]

It would be nice if you at some point stopped trying to decide how I am to write my posts.

Telling you why a stat is ill-suited for a specific argument is not deciding how you are to write your posts. Telling you that you can be frank (advance the point you want to make with the reasons why you believe it to begin with) also isn't.

Rather, your post right there is closer to the action it speaks of.

 

[jono]

Oh, I see the only times they shared a podium in one of the biggest races have been last year. Curious.

Pogacar and MVDP were also together the two strongest riders at RVV in 2022, even if Pogacar missed the podium.

 

[senna6541]

I don't understand how pretty basic data should be dismissed as overfitting results? Maybe you can argue that rivalries don't matter that much, but Cancellara vs Boonen was talked about so much for these big races when the reality is they very, very rarely actually clashed in these races. The number of MSR, RVVs and PRs they both got top 5 is actually bafflingly low considering they both raced these races their entire career.

Although they shared a lot of peak years, it seemed like one was often hurt or perhaps had a mech/crash or something to kill the H2H several years. For example, where was Cancellara in 2012 when Boonen smashed everyone - can't recall why he wasn't in the picture that year.

 

[senna6541]

How may Monuments would MVDP have by now if he started full bore in the Spring Classics in say 2017 at 22? Nowadays there is no way they would have let him stay strictly CX. I still say one of his trademark wins is the 2018 Dutch NC when he was in the break all day, got caught, and then basically steamrolled everyone to win the sprint. The killer instinct and "it's my right to win" on full display.

 

[Unchained]

Rivalries are overrated.

The teams and race promoters strongly disagree and race fans are drawn to parity rather than dominance in my opinion. Often when I am watching a race sure I enjoy seeing a rider go deep and win in a solo breakaway effort, really respect it. But for my most enjoyable experience, I love seeing a small group come in together and try to jump each other as they near the finish, groups of 5-8 riders and a few favorites, rivals is always more fun for me to watch.. Would love to see Wout, Pog, MVP together as they reach 4,5 k to go!!

 

[kingjr]

The teams and race promoters strongly disagree and race fans are drawn to parity rather than dominance in my opinion. Often when I am watching a race sure I enjoy seeing a rider go deep and win in a solo breakaway effort, really respect it. But for my most enjoyable experience, I love seeing a small group come in together and try to jump each other as they near the finish, groups of 5-8 riders and a few favorites, rivals is always more fun for me to watch.. Would love to see Wout, Pog, MVP together as they reach 4,5 k to go!!

Yeah, that's fun to watch, sure. What I mean, though, is these discussions about whether rider X is better than Y, I think people sometimes get too worked up about that.

 

[Unchained]

Yeah, that's fun to watch, sure. What I mean, though, is these discussions about whether rider X is better than Y, I think people sometimes get too worked up about that.

For sure, as anyone who has ever raced and trained knows, that everyone has good days and bad days. I am sure some beer and an opportunity, Remco can express exactly what a bad day feels like.!!! There are 7-8 riders I follow and the main criteria are style and sportsmanship. I am always a fan of a racer who is quick to say, that guy was better than me today.. It costs nothing to compliment fellow racers, and at the highest level a bad day is all relative!

 

[Bolder]

How may Monuments would MVDP have by now if he started full bore in the Spring Classics in say 2017 at 22? Nowadays there is no way they would have let him stay strictly CX. I still say one of his trademark wins is the 2018 Dutch NC when he was in the break all day, got caught, and then basically steamrolled everyone to win the sprint. The killer instinct and "it's my right to win" on full display.

Looking back, it's crazy that by 2016 QS or Lotto hadn't offered him and Wout a WT contract they couldn't refuse. Was CX really that lucrative?

 

[tobydawq]

Looking back, it's crazy that by 2016 QS or Lotto hadn't offered him and Wout a WT contract they couldn't refuse. Was CX really that lucrative?

Maybe people for some reason didn't think the skills in cross were in any way transferrable to road?

 

[Ricco']

Looking back, it's crazy that by 2016 QS or Lotto hadn't offered him and Wout a WT contract they couldn't refuse. Was CX really that lucrative?

There were rumours back in 2016 that Team Sky were already making contacts with him (that is said back in the first posts of this topic).

The truth is back than he considered road racing "boring" and prefered a dual career CX/MTB to CX/Road. Only in 2019 this started to somewhat change.

 

[scribers]

There were rumours back in 2016 that Team Sky were already making contacts with him (that is said back in the first posts of this topic).

The truth is back than he considered road racing "boring" and prefered a dual career CX/MTB to CX/Road. Only in 2019 this started to somewhat change.

The first few pages ARE a good review. Even Wout casting shade on road racing. The fact is those two have imposed themselves on the peloton since then

 

[scribers]

Do him and Wout ever crash in road races? I can’t recollect any?

 

[AmRacer]

Do him and Wout ever crash in road races? I can’t recollect any?

TT tour de france barrier Wout