Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[QueenStagiaire]

What does your boss say about taking a big risk and potentially losing out on a great return, and instead losing money for the firm? By playing around too much.

If 2nd is a great return for a three-time champion, then he has a losing mindset.

 

[Salvarani]

If 2nd is a great return for a three-time champion, then he has a losing mindset.

It is not a bad result. He fought until the end, like a champion, and got close.

Lets not act that like finishing 2nd at Ronde means nothing here. Even for MVDP.

A losing mindset would actually be what some want him to do.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

In a real rivalry one guy would rather rather lose to anyone else than to their rival. Especially in a situation where the rival was to equal their victory record. Van der Poel should have encouraged Remco and others to attack early by saying he wouldn't help pull them back.

But could Van der Poel actually have done anything to change the final outcome? I doubt it, but like others I don't think he gave himself the best possible odds of winning. However, no one races perfectly every single time.

 

[jotafap]

"I didn't try to do better because it wouldn't have mattered" is a crap argument.

We’re talking about a race where people go to their physical and psychological limits and beyond, yet somehow we interpret his strategy as “not trying to do better.”

 

[Peyresourde]

Van der Poel also seems far more willing to loose to Pogacar than to anyone else (especially van Aert).

This might be a similar situation to de Vlaeminck/Merckx. Roger talks *** about every rider, except for Merckx who he touts as best ever because it is undeniable that he was a better overall rider as they rode at the same time.

By praising and loosing/sometimes winning against the best of all time (Merckx for de Vlaeminck and Pogacar for MvdP), he increases his own legend and has an argument to be the second best overall rider. (And this works, I see many people that believe him to be better than Evenepoel or Vingegaard which I disagree with)

 

[Red Rick]

Van der Poel also seems far more willing to loose to Pogacar than to anyone else (especially van Aert).

This might be a similar situation to de Vlaeminck/Merckx. Roger talks *** about every rider, except for Merckx who he touts as best ever because it is undeniable that he was a better overall rider as they rode at the same time.

By praising and loosing to the best of all time (Merckx for de Vlaeminck and Pogacar for MvdP), he increases his own legend and has an argument to be the second best overall rider.

A despicable mentality indeed.

 

[Salvarani]

Van der Poel also seems far more willing to loose to Pogacar than to anyone else (especially van Aert).

This might be a similar situation to de Vlaeminck/Merckx. Roger talks *** about every rider, except for Merckx who he touts as best ever because it is undeniable that he was a better overall rider as they rode at the same time.

By praising and loosing to the best of all time (Merckx for de Vlaeminck and Pogacar for MvdP), he increases his own legend and has an argument to be the second best overall rider. (And this works, I see many people that believe him to be better than Evenepoel or Vingegaard which I disagree with)

MVDP backs himself and why wouldnt he? It has worked for him plenty of times before. These battles will go down in history.

He was close to make it back on Kwaremont here. It wasnt a huge margin.

Him being berated for that mentality is quite interesting to me... because his mentality matches up with one of a champion, more than anything else.

 

[Lequack]

MVDP promo video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OTs-NDpLTQ

 

[Berniece]

It's not a matter of dropping him on a single climb, it's about attacking MVDP every single climb. He simply can't repeat those efforts as often as Pogacar.

Even if he can hang on until Kwaremont in this scenario, he is just as cooked, if not moreso, by the time he arrives there.

Pogacar was completely cooked himself when he arrived this year. If he wanted to go earlier, he would cook himself with Evenepoel/MVDP taking turns. An AGR scenario.

 

[jono]

Pogacar was completely cooked himself when he arrived this year. If he wanted to go earlier, he would cook himself with Evenepoel/MVDP taking turns. An AGR scenario.

I didn't see much evidence of that, especially based on how easily he pulled out the gap after Kwaremont/Paterberg.

 

[jotafap]

MVDP promo video

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OTs-NDpLTQ

Liked it very much, nice to see more of his personal life and also how he grew into the cycling world.
He seems a simple and nice guy, as his family.

He deserves it and will end up as the best cobbled classics cyclist of all time, imo.

 

[Berniece]

I didn't see much evidence of that, especially based on how easily he pulled out the gap after Kwaremont/Paterberg.

Yeah because first it was 2 v 1 for 40km’s, with only 20s between them max. What do you think happens if it’s 1 v 2 for 40km’s? I see no reason to believe Pogacar would’ve been able to hold that.

 

[KoopaCycling]

MVDP argument for helping Pogacar out, we will be seeing each other quite often in the future....
madness

 

[AmRacer]

Yeah because first it was 2 v 1 for 40km’s, with only 20s between them max. What do you think happens if it’s 1 v 2 for 40km’s? I see no reason to believe Pogacar would’ve been able to hold that.

Pogi would have killed their legs on every berg, and power away to the sunset.

 

[Berniece]

Pogi would have killed their legs on every berg, and power away to the sunset.

That’s why even with motor support Evenepoel came to 20m

 

[AmRacer]

That’s why even with motor support Evenepoel came to 20m

Everytime Mathieu did fake pulls.

 

[SHAD0W93]

That’s why even with motor support Evenepoel came to 20m

Pogacar was the one doing the majority of the work and accelerations. It’s not like the work was shared 50/50. Evenepoel got hung out to dry like a prize fish. His only hope was hanging on the climbs or attacking first.

 

[AmRacer]

Pogacar was the one doing the majority of the work and accelerations. It’s not like the work was shared 50/50. Evenepoel got hung out to dry like a prize fish. His only hope was hanging on the climbs or attacking first.

And Remco shed time when the road went up, also last climb

 

[KoopaCycling]

I firmly believe that if MVDP races smarter remco comes back and we get a slightly different race. He gave Pogacar moments of respite, thus allowing Pogacar to hold off remco his comeback. In a similar vein that Skjelmose moments of respite helped remco chase down Pogacar last year. Also lets not pretend MVDP was freewheeling when he went to the front. I remember Pogacar taking a bite and MVDP keeping the pace.

I still believe that in such a scenario (where remco comes back) Pogacar still holds the best cards. But MVDP chances depending on how it unfolds increase. Maybe Remco attacks forcing Pogacar to waste energy whilst MVDP saves his. Perhaps MVDP as a result holds Pogacar wheel instead of losing 6 seconds. Perhaps they go to finish as duo. remco chances remain the smallest. But there remains the smallest of chances. Stranger things have happened.

Lots of maybe and obviously that did not happen. We do know MVDP helped Pogacar, and a result ended up short. And we also know he seemingly fails to see where he went wrong. Despite also making the same mistake in San Remo.
Pride/ego can be a terrible thing.

 

[Berniece]

Pogacar was the one doing the majority of the work and accelerations. It’s not like the work was shared 50/50. Evenepoel got hung out to dry like a prize fish. His only hope was hanging on the climbs or attacking first.

Doesn't matter if the work was shared 50/50. Pogacar had the possibility to catch his breath for a while, and then go again. Completely different if you are at it alone