The New World Champion! Appreciation

[hfer07]

I think some folks here are getting carried away with Cavendish-he doesn't deserves the amount of BS he's getting-and I don't even like him-the reality here is that Cavendish did his job-the parcours was announced a year ago & the entire peloton was aware of the flattish layout for sprinters- If someone is to blame for the overall results-then aim it at the UCI & the WC organizers in Denmark

 

[ScottyMuser]

Precisely. That "only" is the key operative word here, one that's sometimes overlooked.

Geelong was an example of how to do a flat worlds course well. Just enough obstacles to make other types of rider think they could do it, but not enough to prevent the sprinters from having their day - but they really had to work for it.

Cavendish, on his 2009 form, could easily have competed for the win in Geelong. The form that saw him to victory in Sanremo and Aubenas could have taken him over those obstacles. Cavendish, for all the derision he inspires, is not a complete fool when it comes to climbing, and has got over some decent sized lumps when in half decent form in the past.

A course like this year's, however, simply is not challenging enough to allow riders other than sprinters to feel like they had a chance. Half of the non-sprinter big names didn't even bother showing up. Last year, the puncheurs and classics hardmen felt like they had a chance to win, and made it hard for the sprinters. They took every opportunity, but ultimately the sprint was not to be denied. But it was exciting watching them try, because they believed that if things went right they could do it. Today, nobody other than a handful of sprinters and their domestiques really believed they had a chance.

Agreed - especially with your point about Cav being able to get over the hills when he wants to - he soloed over a cat 2 (IIRC) to prove exactly that during the stage, so possibly this also points towards him looking at diversifying as he grows older

 

[danjo007]

although i was wanting someone else to win, cav deserved it. GREAT RACE. any d!psh!t who say otherwise is just that.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

It's funny see so many people p*ssing about Cav (and sprinters in general) being a wheelsuck. They still have to make it to the finish, fight for and hold position, etc etc.

I don't like Cav, but appreciate his talent. And there is no way anyone could talk sh*t about the GB team performance today. That team took control of the race, dictated the kind of race that played to their strengths, and walked away with the jersey.

Beautiful team performance, and everyone used their abilities to ensure they won. It may be Cav wearing the jersey, but the team deserves a lot of credit...

 

[El Pistolero]

Oops! My bad - 6 Greens & 4 MSR starting at age 26 & 27 respectively. Zabel's palmares is very rich but if you look at his top victories you'll see that they didn't start to flow until his later 20's. Cavendish is only just 26 and has already won 1 MSR, 1 Green Jersey and more stages than Zabel did in his entire career. So I think that, as Cav has the potential to develop, he may eclipse Zabel by the close of his career.

People who hit the scene on an early age fizzle out a lot sooner. You can't compare Zabel with Cavendish I'm afraid.

 

[Ragerod]

Precisely. That "only" is the key operative word here, one that's sometimes overlooked.

Geelong was an example of how to do a flat worlds course well. Just enough obstacles to make other types of rider think they could do it, but not enough to prevent the sprinters from having their day - but they really had to work for it.

Cavendish, on his 2009 form, could easily have competed for the win in Geelong. The form that saw him to victory in Sanremo and Aubenas could have taken him over those obstacles. Cavendish, for all the derision he inspires, is not a complete fool when it comes to climbing, and has got over some decent sized lumps when in half decent form in the past.

A course like this year's, however, simply is not challenging enough to allow riders other than sprinters to feel like they had a chance. Half of the non-sprinter big names didn't even bother showing up. Last year, the puncheurs and classics hardmen felt like they had a chance to win, and made it hard for the sprinters. They took every opportunity, but ultimately the sprint was not to be denied. But it was exciting watching them try, because they believed that if things went right they could do it. Today, nobody other than a handful of sprinters and their domestiques really believed they had a chance.

Geelong was far from flat. Ideally a sprinter friendly course would aim for a group around 50 riders, not 20.

In fact these two courses highlight the limitations of circuits. It's simply not possible to have a circuit that gives pure sprinters and others equal opportunities. Having obstacles that make it worthwhile for non-sprinters on a circuit makes it too difficult for sprinters when doing 15+ laps.

A flattish course ending with two or three laps of the Geelong circuit would be ideal.

 

[daveinzambia]

Cannot be bothered to read the previous arguments, cannot believe this thread has got so long so quickly.

Massive GB fan boy so totally biased and loved watching GB put themselves on the front, own the race, chase everything down and win it. From a GB perspective that is massive. Can you imagine a GB team taking command of the race throughout a few years ago. As a British cycling fan it was their willingness to take responsibility and ride on the front for the whole race that was the biggest thing. still smiling this morning.

having said all of that, yes have to agree that this course was not worthy of a world championship. world criterium championship maybe. I think Geelong last year showed how a world championship sprinters course should look and when riders like Canc and Gilbert do not even bother trying to attack then there is something wrong.

still smiling though.

 

[rides like a girl]

Erm, Cavendish has already won a monument, Stannard came close in KBK (and will quite probably win a semi classic in the future), Geraint Thomas coming very close in Flanders and possibly would have won had he not been riding for Flecha (and will almost certainly win Flanders or Roubaix in the future), and would have made a real threat in Roubaix had he not crashed (and remember he podiumed on the Roubaix stage of the Tour)

and its very convenient to say they havent had a run at winning the Tour or the Giro when they have just put two riders on the podium in Spain (and one of those was riding the Tour in arguably better condition before he crashed).

You need to open you eyes..

You are letting your hate cloud your judgement

My post said I wasn't hating on Cav. I like him. Not sure where you got that bolded part from.

My original post was responding to a bolded comment about GB riders having a chance to win any race. Your response, minus Cav in MSR, details almost wins. Maybe we just disagree in what a chance to win is. I say a chance to win means you are in the mix at the line, so for a one day I think it means you are in the same time as the winner or within a couple seconds. In a GT I think it means you are within striking distance to make up time and win. I don't think just lining up in shape is a chance to win.

BTW, I knew that Cav won MSR that is why I left that classic off my list. I actually remember cheering for him that race and taking heat for it. You can go back and see I didn't list MSR on my list of classics. GB riders obviously can win that race so the poster I was quoting is right on that race.

I quoted two GT's GB riders didn't win, didn't podium, and didn't even come top 10. So those two GT's in my eyes correctly point out two more races that GB riders didn't have a chance to win.

You and I will have to disagree over Wiggans in the Tour this year, he crashed out before I saw if he really had a chance to win. I know he had good shape, but wasn't able to see how he well he would do in the last mountain stages to really gauge his chances. Since I don't know how he would have finished this past Tour, I used his 2009 Tour where he couldn't beat LA to get third and finished 6 minutes down to AC.

In today's racing I don't think any nation can categorically say that their riders can win every race regardless the type of race.

I still think the statement was a bit of a reach by a fan that was excited by a win. I stand by my response.

I guess we just have a difference of opinion of what a chance to win a race is.

 

[AngusW]

I was disappointed that Cavendish won but not surprised. The worlds has ended in a bunch sprint before (Zolder in 2002 for example) and no doubt will do again in the future. Although I'd prefer to see the worlds always have a challenging (ie hilly) course I accept that riders of all types deserve a shot at the title. This one was Cavendish's and he took full advantage. So kudos and congratulations to you, Cavendish, from a non-fan.

I'll be interested to see how Cavendish copes with the curse of the rainbow jersey.

 

[daveinzambia]

No one is complaining about Cav winning this

We're bad mouthing the course, not the rider who won. And Cav IS a one trick pony. That's not an insult to him, it is what it is.

To be fair the vast majority of riders are 'one trick ponies' just some of them have more exciting tricks than others.

There are a few that can mix it with Sprints and up hills or across cobbles, but only a very select few

 

[El Pistolero]

To be fair the vast majority of riders are 'one trick ponies' just some of them have more exciting tricks than others.

There are a few that can mix it with Sprints and up hills or across cobbles, but only a very select few

There are a fair amount of cyclists who are good in a lot of things, but not super in anything.

 

[The Hitch]

There are a fair amount of cyclists who are good in a lot of things, but not super in anything.

Valverde is good on tts and sprints and super at hills climbing and descending.

 

[42x16ss]

Whinge, Whinge, Whinge - "Cav can't do this, Cav can’t do that. Everybody finished fresh as a daisy. Everybody let Cav win. It was so boring."

The team did a massive job today. Everybody knew the GB game plan well ahead of the race. No one came up with any sort of plan to derail it. GB rode a textbook race and Cav won.
If you must sound off, have a go at your own national team for not having a plan to stop Cav winning it.

GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV, GB, CAV.

Yeah Baby!!!!

You Brits are hilarious!!!

Apart from Hitch you guys are so blinded by Cav winning you just can't grasp the point

If Cav wasn't British you would all be saying the same thing as eveyone else. Wake up! The parcours was SOOOOOOOO boring and unworthy of a WC it was ridiculous.

Cav unleashed an awesome sprint, was a worthy winner and GB controlled the race perfectly but be honest here, was it as good a race as Stuttgart, Mendrisio or Geelong?

NO! And don't try and tell us it was

 

[daveinzambia]

There are a fair amount of cyclists who are good in a lot of things, but not super in anything.

Yeah not certain what point I was making there. Getting over excited and posting all over place.

Guess i thought that the one trick pony thing seemed weak. Most riders that are really talented at what they do, and right now Cav is the best at what he does, are slightly one trick ponies.

but the more i think about it can see that there are a few riders that, if they really wanted to, could be in the top ten on cobbles, up a steep finish, on a MTF and in a time trial.

and I guess hand on heart i would have to say that yes those guys probably are more deserving of being world champion.

But i loved watching yesterdays race, purely from a GB fanboy perspective but can understand why neutrals would be disappointed.

 

[daveinzambia]

You Brits are hilarious!!!

Apart from Hitch you guys are so blinded by Cav winning you just can't grasp the point

If Cav wasn't British you would all be saying the same thing as eveyone else. Wake up! The parcours was SOOOOOOOO boring and unworthy of a WC it was ridiculous.

Cav unleashed an awesome sprint, was a worthy winner and GB controlled the race perfectly but be honest here, was it as good a race as Stuttgart, Mendrisio or Geelong?

NO! And don't try and tell us it was

But see the other side. We have had so little presence in World Championship Road races in the past and now suddenly GB is controlling the race, the team are on the front throughout, on form British riders putting on a real show of control and pace riding then a Brit rider finishing it off. We have never had anything like that before.

a massive high point for British riding. Of course we are going to react when everyone insists on saying that it was not a deserving win on a course that was too weak.

It also find it amusing when people expect some sort of logical thought to apply when it comes to sports and its fans.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The level of Australian moaning on here is unbelievable.

Much worse than when Cadel won the Tour. And at least in this race the best rider won.

Really? Are you serious????????? I can't believe your ignorance.

Interesting to see that even those with a dislike of Evans such as myself were happy to congratulate him, say it was deserved etc.

Yet when Cavendish wins everyone is whining about how bad the course was, how it was just a sprint etc etc etc.

The only thing worse than a bad winner, is a bad loser.

Really?? Lets have a look at some of your posts during the Mendrisio WC.

good god.. he just smiled.. is it me or does cadel have a very large head..

only cadels fourth road race win.. says it all really..

im still in shock... good ride though..

great ride by cadel....

im going to be sick...

the wife is not going to beleive this when she watches it later... how far to go.. they are giving us no distances

was that the most laid back understated victory celebration ever...

great ride but the miserable sod STILL doesnt look happy..

is this really happening..?

oh god this is like my worst nightmare

i think this is the first time, ever, that i have seen cadel attack... hes confused everyone.. who would have expected that...

completely out of character the naughty little trickster

oh god.. this place will be hell... please please dont let an aussie win, especially not evans... Nooooooh...

id almost rather valverde

A lot of snide remarks and back handed compliments in those posts. Nice work hypocrite.

 

[daveinzambia]

A lot of snide remarks and back handed compliments in those posts. Nice work hypocrite.

very nicely done . Did you have those comments stored up or just quick on the search.

 

[42x16ss]

I think some folks here are getting carried away with Cavendish-he doesn't deserves the amount of BS he's getting-and I don't even like him-the reality here is that Cavendish did his job-the parcours was announced a year ago & the entire peloton was aware of the flattish layout for sprinters- If someone is to blame for the overall results-then aim it at the UCI & the WC organizers in Denmark

That's what everybody has been doing. But because the GB fans got a win they assumed their guy was being victimised and got on the defensive.

The course was panned in several threads as soon as it was announced. Why? Because we didn't even need to watch the race!

 

[rhubroma]

You Brits are hilarious!!!

Apart from Hitch you guys are so blinded by Cav winning you just can't grasp the point

If Cav wasn't British you would all be saying the same thing as eveyone else. Wake up! The parcours was SOOOOOOOO boring and unworthy of a WC it was ridiculous.

Cav unleashed an awesome sprint, was a worthy winner and GB controlled the race perfectly but be honest here, was it as good a race as Stuttgart, Mendrisio or Geelong?

NO! And don't try and tell us it was

I obviously couldn't agree with you more here.

Any Worlds course that permits a pure sprinter to win, is simply undignified. This course was done as a promo for the sport in the Anglo-Baltic world, which is understandable I suppose from a marketing standpoint, although I really could never approve of such a course for how it dishonors the sport.

A Worlds course should, in my opinion, cater to at least a rider who can win a hilly classic, or an intermediary, up and down grand tour stage. Better yet if its a real war of attrition that brings out the most tenacious, gutsy and classiest of rider a là Hinault, Lemond, Roche, Bugno and the likes.

Otherwise, what world champion is he?

 

[42x16ss]

I obviously couldn't agree with you more here.

Any Worlds course that permits a pure sprinter to win, is simply undignified. This course was done as a promo for the sport in the Anglo-Baltic world, which is understandable I suppose from a marketing standpoint, although I really could never approve of such a course for how it dishonors the sport.

A Worlds course should, in my opinion, cater to at least a rider who can win a hilly classic, or an intermediary, up and down grand tour stage. Better yet if its a real war of attrition that brings out the most tenacious, gutsy and classiest of rider a là Hinault, Lemond, Roche, Bugno and the likes.

Otherwise, what world champion is he?

I have no problem at all with a pure sprinter winning, just feel that a course flat enough to allow full leadout trains shouldn't be used. At least the best sprinter getting around won - if it had been someone like Feillu or Rojas

 

[danjo007]

if you wanted a boring race. you should have been watching the singaporeGP... NOW THAT WAS BORING.

 

[hrotha]

Valverde is good on tts and sprints and super at hills climbing and descending.

Valverde is not super on the high mountains, he's merely very good.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

blah blah blah......

but again, the guy and more particular his team deserve the rewards for owning on such a course.

terrific. then we are all in agreement that cav's/britain's win was totally awesome!

so we can all get back to discussing how awesome cav is. and what a great show britain put on today.

 

[PCutter]

Valverde is good on tts and sprints and super at hills climbing and descending.

We should probably wait to see how good he is now that his dog has died (Di Luca has hardly looked like The Killer of 2009 this year), but your point is still correct.....as I prepare for a barrage from Valverde lovers.

fwiw, Team GB deserved the win (on a boring course).....and personally I'd like to thank the silly bookie who gave 10-1 on Cav earlier this week, easiest $1000 I've ever earned, cheers.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

I obviously couldn't agree with you more here.

Any Worlds course that permits a pure sprinter to win, is simply undignified. This course was done as a promo for the sport in the Anglo-Baltic world, which is understandable I suppose from a marketing standpoint, although I really could never approve of such a course for how it dishonors the sport.

A Worlds course should, in my opinion, cater to at least a rider who can win a hilly classic, or an intermediary, up and down grand tour stage. Better yet if its a real war of attrition that brings out the most tenacious, gutsy and classiest of rider a là Hinault, Lemond, Roche, Bugno and the likes.

Otherwise, what world champion is he?

wow! just ....wow! you guys are something else. this is a joke, right?