The New World Champion! Appreciation

[ultimobici]

My friend Eugenio Cappadocia, who is a cycling reporter for an Italian daily.

A quick google of your "journalist" friend yields one solitary hit. This thread!!!

So I call BS. Methinks you have an imaginary friend or he's lying about his profession.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Come on Dr. Maserati Cancellara isn't a sprinter, at least let us agree on that. Et al.

I've no problem saying he isn't a sprinter, but you said he wasn't "fast", which is ridiculous.

He doesn't have the explosiveness that sprinters have to launch their sprint, but he can certainly go fast and would be difficult to get around once he gets top speed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Define "popular"... which signature session will more people show up to? The one with Mark Cavendish, or the one with Amets Txurruka?

Of course more people will show up to the one with Cavendish (unless it's in the Basque country perhaps). Not only is he far more successful (thus far more crossover potential to the mainstream) but he's memorable because of his victories and soundbites. However, we are not talking about popularity in the mainstream or among people who follow cycling, and what's more we are talking about styles of racing rather than particular riders. Take a more high profile rider who is a dedicated attacker, say, Vino, and it would be much closer (though in most locations Cavendish would still be more popular).

However, we're talking about popularity in terms of a small and pretty much insignificant section of the cycling fan fraternity, that is, regular posters to a particular forum.

 

[Angliru]

Because we don't have any of the type of cyclist that people on here like, Ardennes specialists such as Vinokourov, J Rodriguez, Gilbert etc. But we do produce a lot of top cyclists of a type that people on here don't like, TTers, climbers that can't attack, bunch sprinters etc.

Thomas Geraint is the closest thing the Brits have to a popular type of rider.

I'm not saying you hate Brits because of the above but there is a fairly consistent stream of negativity.

I've seen a whole lotta love for Froome since his Vuelta performance and a new found respect for Wiggins for the same plus his entire season. The Brit's are getting more love now than ever in this forum. Additionally there is a strong contingent of forum members that do like Cavendish and those that don't like him admittedly can't deny his immense talent.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You're spot on with the Tour of Britain analogy. The British Grand Prix used to held at Brands Hatch, a rollercoaster of a track with every type of challenge for the driver. Likewise the old ToB used to challenge the best, thus having little in common with the current event.

Brands Hatch was (is?) a fantastic circuit and it should never have gone back to Silverstone, especially not since the reprofiling in '91. Terrible circuit. Too fast for most of it, then too slow in the final set of corners (until they moved the finish recently) for passing. Very appropriate for the modern ToB I guess - too flat, not challenging in the right places to maximise the racing, but with potential and pretty good support.

 

[LugHugger]

Most of British medals come from track cycling though. A sport mostly done by Anglophone countries. Though track cycling does deliver good talent to road cycling.

WTF are you talking about? 50% of the medals at Beijing were won by non English speaking nationalities. With the one entry per country rule taking effect from next year, an even higher percentage of medal winners will not be native English speaking .

You just may be the biggest bigot on this forum .

 

[Tank Engine]

Brands Hatch was (is?) a fantastic circuit and it should never have gone back to Silverstone, especially not since the reprofiling in '91. Terrible circuit. Too fast for most of it, then too slow in the final set of corners (until they moved the finish recently) for passing. Very appropriate for the modern ToB I guess - too flat, not challenging in the right places to maximise the racing, but with potential and pretty good support.

Ah, the Rosedale Chimney which the old ToB went up. That was fun.

Average: 11.9 %

Length: 1.47 km

Height start: 137 m

Height top: 312 m

Gradient: 175 m

Maximum: 33 %

Source: http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?col=Rosedale-Chimney-Bank&qryMountainID=8699

 

[Richeypen]

WTF are you talking about? 50% of the medals at Beijing were won by non English speaking nationalities. With the one entry per country rule taking effect from next year, an even higher percentage of medal winners will not be native English speaking .

You just may be the biggest bigot on this forum .

What the ignore list was made for

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Brands Hatch was (is?) a fantastic circuit and it should never have gone back to Silverstone, especially not since the reprofiling in '91. Terrible circuit. Too fast for most of it, then too slow in the final set of corners (until they moved the finish recently) for passing. Very appropriate for the modern ToB I guess - too flat, not challenging in the right places to maximise the racing, but with potential and pretty good support.

The cost of upgrading Brands in terms of safety and accomodating the massive F1 caravan wasn't worth it when they could make a fortune from the circuit for racing everything else; bikes, cars, lorries whatever + track days, corporate events.

Nicola Foulston took over the running of the company that owned the track when she was 20. And no, building a monument to the glory of British motorsport was not top of her agaenda. She sold up becoming a multi multi millionaire before she was 30.

She was a student of my mum's while all this was going on. Don't know where she found the time...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Of course more people will show up to the one with Cavendish (unless it's in the Basque country perhaps). Not only is he far more successful (thus far more crossover potential to the mainstream) but he's memorable because of his victories and soundbites. However, we are not talking about popularity in the mainstream or among people who follow cycling, and what's more we are talking about styles of racing rather than particular riders. Take a more high profile rider who is a dedicated attacker, say, Vino, and it would be much closer (though in most locations Cavendish would still be more popular).

However, we're talking about popularity in terms of a small and pretty much insignificant section of the cycling fan fraternity, that is, regular posters to a particular forum.

Don't dismiss the people here on this forum as insignificant - because 'we' obviously have a very large purchasing power that has been noted by the marketeers.

Because 'we' have somehow managed to have Cav as The Worlds 35th Most Marketable Athlete (& only cyclist represented).

 

[The Hitch]

Define "popular"... which signature session will more people show up to? The one with Mark Cavendish, or the one with Amets Txurruka?

The kind of popularity you are talking about is directly linked to media exposure. The more press someone gets, the more popular they are.

So you are saying Cavendish gets more press than Txurruka. Well duh.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

Ah, the Rosedale Chimney which the old ToB went up. That was fun.

Average: 11.9 %

Length: 1.47 km

Height start: 137 m

Height top: 312 m

Gradient: 175 m

Maximum: 33 %

Source: http://www.climbbybike.com/climb.asp?col=Rosedale-Chimney-Bank&qryMountainID=8699

Does anyone know what the climbs were in the stage where the car drove into the riders near Ambleside? It's difficult to avoid 20% climbs around there.

 

[indurain666]

Boring race on a boring course. Kudos to Cav for winning the sprint, arguably and given the circumstances he was the best sprinter in a sprinter;s race

Before you call me a hater, I was a huge Cipollini fan, and still think Zolder was a really boring race. Same deal as this one, 46 kmh, 160 finishers...

Just my opinion: one day races should be designed so that the best guy wins: Gilbert was the guy.

Flat sprinters' courses are really boring.

 

[El Pistolero]

WTF are you talking about? 50% of the medals at Beijing were won by non English speaking nationalities. With the one entry per country rule taking effect from next year, an even higher percentage of medal winners will not be native English speaking .

You just may be the biggest bigot on this forum .

The fact that 50% of the medals are from English speaking countries indicates it's a sport mostly done by Anglophone countries.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

Just my opinion: one day races should be designed so that the best guy wins: Gilbert was the guy.

He was pegged as a favorite and barely featured.

 

[Mambo95]

The kind of popularity you are talking about is directly linked to media exposure. The more press someone gets, the more popular they are.

So you are saying Cavendish gets more press than Txurruka. Well duh.

It's a bit like music.

Cavendish is like Coldplay. Massively popular with general public, very successful, and pretty damn good at what they do. But the 'musos' don't like them because they've got to appear cool and knowing.

So they like the struggling band which has a local following, Txurruka, but can't quite get a record deal. They're apparently better because they have 'soul' and 'feel the music'. But the muso knows that because he appreciates them, who few have heard of, and not Coldplay, it proves that he knows more about music. In time the small band gets a break and a hit. The muso disowns them.

Once Txurruka wins a race, you'll all call him a sell out.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

GB took 8 out of the 18 medals.

Nope.

There were 10 comps, and GBR won 7, with 3 silver and 2 bronze, making 12 out of 30 medallists. Aussies and kiwis picked up 3 medals between them. so 50% were Anglophone.

Your stats should be that of all the cycling disciplines: track, road, bmx and mountain biking, GBR took 8 of the 18 golds on offer.

 

[El Pistolero]

He was pegged as a favorite and barely featured.

He didn't peg him self as a favorite and that is the only opinion that should ever have counted in his case. Gilbert isn't the type of rider who likes to throw sand in the eyes of his rivals.

Everyone who thought Phil was a favorite, me including, didn't know how "easy" the final uphill finish was. We were wrong, but it's not fair to expect something from Phil at a flat Worlds just because he was pegged as a favorite. Phil is a favorite in every single one day race he enters because of the reputation he build up this season. People didn't take the course into account.

 

[El Pistolero]

Nope.

There were 10 comps, and GBR won 7, with 3 silver and 2 bronze, making 12 out of 30 medallists. Aussies and kiwis picked up 3 medals between them. so 50% were Anglophone.

Your stats should be that of all the cycling disciplines: track, road, bmx and mountain biking, GBR took 8 of the 18 golds on offer.

Yup, sorry about that. 7 out of 10 gold medals it is.

Ps: what's the reason for only 2 Olympic track events for women?

 

[hrotha]

It's a bit like music.

Cavendish is like Coldplay. Massively popular with general public, very successful, and pretty damn good at what they do. But the 'musos' don't like them because they've got to appear cool and knowing.

So they like the struggling band which has a local following, Txurruka, but can't quite get a record deal. They're apparently better because they have 'soul' and 'feel the music'. But the muso knows that because he appreciates them, who few have heard of, and not Coldplay, it proves that he knows more about music. In time the small band gets a break and a hit. The muso disowns them.

Once Txurruka wins a race, you'll all call him a sell out.

Cav isn't Coldplay. Cav is U2. More specifically, he's Bono.

 

[The Hitch]

It's a bit like music.

Cavendish is like Coldplay. Massively popular with general public, very successful, and pretty damn good at what they do. But the 'musos' don't like them because they've got to appear cool and knowing.

So they like the struggling band which has a local following, Txurruka, but can't quite get a record deal. They're apparently better because they have 'soul' and 'feel the music'. But the muso knows that because he appreciates them, who few have heard of, and not Coldplay, it proves that he knows more about music. In time the small band gets a break and a hit. The muso disowns them.

Once Txurruka wins a race, you'll all call him a sell out.

A counter example would be Lady Gaga or Britney Spears or Ketchup to Tom Waits.

Not that Cav is as bad as the first or Txurruka as good as the second, but this "people know best" logic is very flawed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's a bit like music.

Cavendish is like Coldplay. Massively popular with general public, very successful, and pretty damn good at what they do. But the 'musos' don't like them because they've got to appear cool and knowing.

So they like the struggling band which has a local following, Txurruka, but can't quite get a record deal. They're apparently better because they have 'soul' and 'feel the music'. But the muso knows that because he appreciates them, who few have heard of, and not Coldplay, it proves that he knows more about music. In time the small band gets a break and a hit. The muso disowns them.

Once Txurruka wins a race, you'll all call him a sell out.

So you're saying that secretly, everybody likes Cav but have to pretend they don't to seem cool? Or everybody likes Coldplay?

Coldplay are pretty damn good at what they do, and so is Cav.

Are we not allowed to actually think that though they're good at what they do, that we don't actually LIKE what they do? I don't like Coldplay, and I don't like U2. But this isn't out of some misplaced lying to myself so that I may appear cooler; there are some bands that sell out stadiums that I do like (REM being one, for example).

The music analogy falls down because of subjectivity. Cavendish is objectively a better rider than Txurruka; Coldplay are not objectively a better band than, say, Belle and Sebastian. For a sportsman, victories, success and accolades can be used to quantify their abilities. For a band, they can't. Beyoncé could retire tomorrow. Leonard Cohen was on tour in his 70s trying to recoup lost money.

 

[theyoungest]

The kind of popularity you are talking about is directly linked to media exposure. The more press someone gets, the more popular they are.

Well, the opposite certainly isn't the case. How else do we measure popularity?

Cavendish is like Coldplay. Massively popular with general public, very successful, and pretty damn good at what they do. But the 'musos' don't like them because they've got to appear cool and knowing.

Coldplay are indeed damn good at playing awful music.

 

[LugHugger]

The fact that 50% of the medals are from English speaking countries indicates it's a sport mostly done by Anglophone countries.

Eh? No, it doesn't. It simply means that for the last Olympics Anglophone countries were equally as successful as non-Anglophones. When fewer Anglophone medals are won next year, what will that mean?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

A counter example would be Lady Gaga or Britney Spears or Ketchup to Tom Waits.

Not that Cav is as bad as the first or Txurruka as good as the second, but this "people know best" logic is very flawed.

Thank you for the edit, much as I am a huge fan of Amets Txurruka, there is no cyclist on earth that comes close to Tom Waits.