The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[BroDeal]

+ 100

Great to see Voeckler take this stage, but I thought, you know,... Lance was gonna win this one in honor of Casartelli

These days Armstrong could not beat a Frenchman in a cheese eating contest, let alone a TdF stage.

 

[nicholaaaas]

Wow, this is sad. I honestly thought AC had more class. He had to have known pretty quickly that Andy had a problem, yet he attacked hard through the rest of the climb. It seems very clear that he chose to capitalize on Andy's mechanical. Classless.

And yes, there's a huge difference between this situation and the stage 3 situation when AS gained a little time. Riders were falling and having mechanicals all over the place in that stage. It would be completely impractical to wait for certain opponents who got into difficulty. Plus the top riders had yet to emerge so early in the race, so how would a rider even know who he should wait for? No, the only thing that would have any chance of working would be what they did in stage 2 where the whole peloton agreed not race at the end.

Well Fabian knew very well the day before who the favourites were and waited for EVERYONE so how is the next day any different except for the fact Andy managed to get thru and was on his wheel. Had stage 3 not going down like that then I would agree he should have waited. I'm sure as he was looking over his shoulder thinking about waiting while Giuseppe Martinelli was screaming in his ear they didnt wait on the cobbles you dont wait in the mountains.

Alberto seems to be a humble man off the bike. And anyone who criticises how he rode the 09 tour. He was and is the team leader. a geriatric Lance comes back and his bs could easily have cost Alberto the tour. Johan and all the rest of the RS boys were not riding for him. He did it pretty much on his own. He couldn't trust them and did what he had to. It was like the day Lemond gave back his first tour... but Alberto refued to play second fiddle to lance's mid life crisis.

he has won every Grand Tour he's contested since 2007 and will win this one. And after Saxo Bank's TACTIC on stage 3 this one is fair too

 

[Gcraenen]

I think its a mistake for people to call it a mechanical.

A mechanical is when something is actually *wrong* with the bike, eg a flat or some kind of breakage.

Watching Schleck after he remounted, it was clear there was nothing wrong with his bike at all.

I think in his haste to attack he made a duff shift under full power.

I think he deserves some sympathy for making a mistake like that at an inopportune time but I wouldn't see it as justification for nullifying the racing.

Looking back at stages 2 and 3 I saw Saxo taking major advantage from other riders misfortunes. And while those were separate incidents and in the past, there seems to be some hypocrisy at work which isn't helping people look at this relatively minor situation in an objective way.

You said it buddy

 

[jeza64]

Agree that he couldn't let sanchez or menchov go.also shleck attacked first,why should contador stop while counterattacking?it's a race first and formost.

 

[Barrus]

+ 100

Great to see Voeckler take this stage, but I thought, you know,... Lance was gonna win this one in honor of Casartelli

But still seeing those last kilometres of the climb and the last few kilometres of the stage, the way the crowd went wild when they saw that French national jersey, it was really beautiful actually

 

[Anonymous]

This is right up there with your other fail posts. Just because Wiggo has crashed and burned, do you have to be so bitter?

Schleck rode his heart out today trying to bridge the gap. I think on here most real aficionado's of the Tour would say that Contador should not have attacked. He is about as classy as your post

Im not bitter. It is well known i have no love at all for contador, although he is growing on me. Most people having not heard my opinion, if pushed to guess what it would be, would probably expect me to side with schleck. So actually its quite the opposite.

I also think its completely ridiculous. Andy messed up, spent 40 seconds changing his chain, finished 40 seconds behind AC. if andy wants to win this tour he needs to go into the TT probably five minutes ahead of contador. At the moment there is no sign of that happening.

But no need to say I lack class just because you dont agree with my opinion. And this has nowt to do with wiggins, i couldnt give a rats **** where wiggins finishes, and never could, my tour was made when G held white, a stage win for Ebh, or Nicholas Roche would be nice and im rather enjoying how well the french riders are doing, but my cycling life does not start and end with Bradley Wiggins. In fact, given a choice between brad getting top ten and lance being dropped on the champs i know which id pick

Thanks for your input though.

 

[karinc]

+1. Says it all. Argue it any way you like, but everything about Contador's body language betrayed eagerness to capitalize on Schleck's misfortune. Same with Sanchez on the descent; he knew Menchov was right with him so there was no point in bombing it-- except to kick Schleck while he was down. No class.

Sanchez is spanish I think he was helping Contador, he certainly wasn't gaining on Menchov

 

[nia O'Malley]

Here are Schleck's words after he cooled down, for those who are getting carried away:

I'm not going to cry because I lost the MJ. My legs are itching, the Tour isn't over. Things like that are motivating me more.

I was feeling really well today, mechanicals do happen

They waited for me in Spa, it was just. Today was different though.

I am in the same situation as last year except I am much stronger this year.


http://www.lavoixdessports.com/Spor...ndy-schleck-une-scene-pareille-ca-me-mo.shtml

 

[hrotha]

Sanchez is spanish I think he was helping Contador, he certainly wasn't gaining on Menchov

Errr, Samu is a pretty decent time trialer. If he had gained more time today it wouldn't have been impossible for him to overtake Andy.

 

[Biological Entity]

Im not bitter. It is well known i have no love at all for contador, although he is growing on me. Most people having not heard my opinion, if pushed to guess what it would be, would probably expect me to side with schleck. So actually its quite the opposite.

I also think its completely ridiculous. Andy messed up, spent 40 seconds changing his chain, finished 40 seconds behind AC. if andy wants to win this tour he needs to go into the TT probably five minutes ahead of contador. At the moment there is no sign of that happening.

But no need to say I lack class just because you dont agree with my opinion. And this has nowt to do with wiggins, i couldnt give a rats **** where wiggins finishes, and never could, my tour was made when G held white, a stage win for Ebh, or Nicholas Roche would be nice, but my cycling life does not start and end with Bradley Wiggins.

What Contador did today made him 'grow on you', did it?

Methinks someone has spotted the regulars taking a certain position and has seen the writting on the wall.

You don't have to agree with these guys just because they might call you a pussy or something. Be brave and think for yourself. They're all bark and no bite anyway.

 

[TahoeNL]

- I don't like what Contador did but to suggest that he lacks class after this move only ignores the numerous classy acts he has shown throughout his career. This guy has put up with a lot of crap and has always taken the high road. He genuinely seems to be a decent guy with the respect of his peers. One minor incident doesn't change that.

Yea class! Like dropping your teammate (Kloden) last year from a podium spot and having a great chance at a stage win for either he (or more likely Kloden) last year! He really earned the respect of his peers last year on his team too. Look how many of them stayed on the team to support the classy guy!

 

[Big Doopie]

wow. i see i'm a few pages late in replying to the initial query.

no. he shouldn't have waited.

i mean for #$%-sakes, how many times is everyone going to have to wait for schlecklet? this is a bike race. stuff happens.

after all schlecklet gained a minute plus because his brother fell over splitting the field and holding up most of all the other contenders who were just behind him at the time. when saxo realized this had happened they put cancellera's motor at the front at full (battery-aided ) speed...

i mean, c'mooooooooooooooon.....

 

[Christian Schneider]

If you really want to understand cycling fans, you need to understand that today, on the descent, when Vino caught up to Andy, a large number of fans were hoping that Vino would get greedy and tow Andy back up to Alberto. Just so that we could all go online and talk about that too.

Nah, I was hoping Alex would wait until the end and sprint around Andy, placing him further down on today's stage. Maybe Andy will get one of those Rotor chain watchers installed, he missed a shift. In any sport, you drop the ball, miss a block, catch a punch, miss the shift it is your competitor's duty to continue and use it to their advantage.

Andy has been a little bit too cocky and teasing. To me, it shows that he is a little immature and perhaps not ready to assume tour leadership. If he really has it in his legs, he would should show Contador respect and crush him if he can.

 

[AtletiSK]

Racing on cobbles is hazard and part of the race. That is exactly why everyone was piling onto the front of the race. The hazards force the selection and become part of the race.

The whole TdF is a hazard, saying the gentlemen rules don´t apply on the cobbles during TdF is ridiculous...

Chavanel was not a race favorite and never will be. To continue the race without him does not cheapen the win in Paris.

again you do the same.... the gentleman rule is: DON´T ATTACK MAILLOT JAUNE when he is in trouble... Chavanel was Maillot Jaune so it is again ridiculous to claim he was not worthy of certain protection...

The entire race was neutralized by the majority of teams because half the peloton was on the ground with significant injury. This is very rare and called for on that day.

of course and it was very right decision....I agree here with you, but what was Saxo/Andy reaction the very next day?

They could have waited at the top when it was clear the real group of racers was not gaining advantage on one another. But they continued to attack a mechanical for advantage. The race was decided here as AC took Schleck's mountain advantage away from him.

SCLECK´S MOUNTAIN ADVANTAGE OVER AC? are you joking here?
I have to repeat again: look how hard Sánchez worked on the descent because now he and Menchov can even overtake AS in GC after ITT... yes, ok Contador/Sánchez/Menchov might have waited... what I say is that Andy should not complain because he had lacked sportsmanship before (you can call today´s incident a justice or whatever...)

 

[jimaras-kos]

Cervélo team owner Gerard Vroomen had this to say on Twitter: “Contador just gained a great chance to win, but he lost the chance to win greatly.”

Well said.

yep well said

 

[armstrong]

I've watched the incident on replay over and over again.

My gut reaction all morning was AC was wrong.

The truth is - in the moment of the chain incident and AC passing him, there wouldn't be enough time for AC to know what had happened to AS. That said, I think he probably would've had a sense that something bad happened to AS, but he wouldn't have known the details, since it wasn't until AC had passed AS, did AS look down at his chain! So, AC might have sensed something wasn't right with AS, but given the moment, he would've counted on nothing being unusual (and simply his strength allowed him to pass AS).

Everything that occurred later was in bad sportsmanship (accelerating with the other two), but at the moment of passing, I don't believe AC knew what had happened cause AS didn't either.

 

[schnebit]

Isn't the most important thing to do when laying down an attack in the mountains to shift properly? If I understand this situation correctly, this was a mistake by Andy. Just like it was a mistake by AC to allow himself to be caught out at the back of the pack.

Shift properly? SRAM is indexed shifting, not friction shifting.... isn't it? How do you improperly shift an indexed shifter?

 

[Gcraenen]

Some people here should really start reading "Il principe" from Machiavelli.

Who cares about "class"? When was the last time a Tour was won with class?

1999-2005? Doped
2006? Doped
2007? Doped by Rasmussen. "Lucky" victory for Conti
2008? Lol
2009? Conti and Lance insulting each other all the time like little kids. Mostly just Lance though.

Yeah, class and Tour de France don't go well together. Who needs doping when you can just break all the unwritten rules in the Tour and gain a lot of seconds by doing so? I'd rather risk breaking these unwritten rules then risk getting caught with doping.

Last time the tour was won with class? 1989 i think. Before that, 1976, but i may be biased there.

 

[phlatties]

nice post O'malley. he's moved on. l have as well. anybody else? there will always be drama when you wear lycra and you're not gettin paid for it.

 

[Anonymous]

All 3 of the 4 race leaders together with a reasonable cadence waiting for the 4th to latch back on. That's all they had to do and could have done when they were together, and I think the right thing to do.

I don't completely disagree, but I also that to temper my annoyance at a move like that would not have been as easy as many are making it out to be. I am simply saying that taking into account being attacked while at the back, I can imagine me having little to no sympathy for Schlecklet at that point.

 

[Throbbobank]

watched it live and have watched it again - Andy attacked and was chased down by Vino - Andy slowed but still pedalling (chain dropped) and contador goes around the inside under 2 seconds after chasing vino's wheel - within fourteen seconds Contador is looking back and round (back and round, back and round cough) and slowing....

It's no Zapruder moment but my take is:

1. I've ridden some major climbs in the Alps but not at the speed where I'm "sprinting" past other riders - the "contador knew at the time" brigade really should be honest with themselves and consider if they've really ever been in that position even as amateurs
2. Once Sanchez and Menchov go - Contador really has no choice

Love the fact that some Americans are very much in to telling us Europeans about the protocols and traditions associated with our sporting events - if only you'd been prepared to honour such traditions by returning our tea in 1773 we would be so much more likely to take notice

 

[Biological Entity]

wow. i see i'm a few pages late in replying to the initial query.

no. he shouldn't have waited.

i mean for #$%-sakes, how many times is everyone going to have to wait for schlecklet? this is a bike race. stuff happens.

after all schlecklet gained a minute plus because his brother fell over splitting the field and holding most of all the other contenders. when they realized this had happened they put cancellera's motor at the front at full (battery-aided ) speed...

i mean, c'mooooooooooooooon.....

The cobbles are totally random and the convention is not to wait in the classics, which is why no one *****ed when AC sailed past Armstrong at the side of the road. That's why so many people are against the cobbles inclusion in the tour. But AC wasn't actually held up, he just made a mess of chasing back on.

But it shows you what a class guy AS is because even though he gained out of the situation he still spoke out against the cobbles being in the tour.

 

[Gcraenen]

Sanchez is spanish I think he was helping Contador, he certainly wasn't gaining on Menchov

Karin schatje, Contador is spanish, but Sanchez is Basque. There is a huge difference!!

 

[El Pistolero]

Yea class! Like dropping your teammate (Kloden) last year from a podium spot and having a great chance at a stage win for either he (or more likely Kloden) last year! He really earned the respect of his peers last year on his team too. Look how many of them stayed on the team to support the classy guy!

Yeah, they left the team cause Conti had no class. You're so right!

Oh wait, why did they go to Armstrong then? =/

How many of Armstrong's teammates do you think won a stage during his 7 year reign? Ill tell you, only 2.

 

[Biological Entity]

I don't completely disagree, but I also that to temper my annoyance at a move like that would not have been as easy as many are making it out to be. I am simply saying that taking into account being attacked while at the back, I can imagine me having little to no sympathy for Schlecklet at that point.

Now imagine how you would feel if you are attacked while your chain was off, and not because you weren't positioning yourself properly.