The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[Bala Verde]

As a moderator of a website dedicated to the love of cycling, you should be ashamed of this comment for its complete lack of acknowledgement of the major tradition that was broken in attacking the yellow jersey during a mechanical. Your comment echoes Albertoe's action in terms of lack of class and respect for fair play in competition. Go get yourself some pisTOOLero gear, you earned it.

The TdF is a 3 week race and luck/bad luck/misfortune is part of it. This is not a cycling experiment whereby individuals are subjected to laboratory settings in which they complete x kilometers under identical conditions on an indoor trainer after a thorough physiological and genetic screening whereby it is established that both individuals possess the exact same qualifications.

Secondly, the TdF was originally intended to sell newspapers. They sold newspapers reporting on interesting stories, some embellished, some real, some nasty and some heroic. This is another story that will be added to the long history of TdFs.

-The badger would support Lemond, boy did that pan out well.
- Lemond beat Fignon by 8 seconds, perhaps because Fignon underestimated aerodynamic considerations
- Perhaps Andy mis shifted because he was tired from 2 weeks of TdF, or perhaps his drivetrain jammed because he didn't check it before the race because he slept in 15m more than he should have.
-Perhaps Andy is lucky he didn't get injured when he fell in stage 2 (?), perhaps he is lucky because he had Cancelara on the team in the cobbled stage.

TdFs are won and lost because of the little things as well and that's part of the game and the beauty of the sport. The TdF has been stifled enough by overly calculated riding, the 'no one wants to lose' mentality, the high stakes involved and (over)specialisation. Some drama is good news, it's a good story.

Thirdly, unwritten rules do not count. Only official rules count. Sportsmanship is demonstrated not because of a rule, but in spite of rules. A athlete makes an individual decision and 'beyond the call of duty', not because he follows a rule that prescribes 'what he needs to do in such a situation. Just like a soldier who is sent to war is not automatically a hero, he becomes one when he makes the decision to go beyond what is required of him. Contador could have shown great sportsmanship (if he knew what had actually happened, a fact we haven't established yet), and he didn't. That's hardly something to slam him for.

Fourthly, given that 90+ pages have been dedicated to establish what exactly happened, and we still haven't come to a conclusion yet, I doubt Contador had the time to figure that out in a split second when he passed Schleck.

Fiftly, factually, Andy did not have enough time to account for misfortune and factually, Contador is in yellow. Contador has only 8s and he could face the same faith. If he wants to avoid those unfortunate incidents to affect his position, he better start putting some time in on Andy.

Oh, and please do not insult forum members.

 

[sartoris]

AGAIN.

Winning a 3 week race on a single mechanical by your only real legitimate threat is an awful way to win the race.

AGAIN.

Did you see the opening Time Trial for one??

 

[Tangled Tango]

Doesn't everyone in the peloton know what will happen if you try shifting under full power?

Everyone except Andy.

 

[frizzlefry]

Great contribution to the discussion today.

1. AS was wrong to attack in the first place.

2. AS is a pussy.

3. Contador is a MAN.

Thanks, mate. Good job.

Get used to it, that is par for the course around here.

 

[hectordeleon1]

I still belive that lance has the power to be with them, but now he is relax and enjoy his last tour, but if he wants he can help andy!

 

[sartoris]

the tdf is a 3 week race and luck/bad luck/misfortune is part of it. This is not a cycling experiment whereby individuals are subjected to laboratory settings in which they complete x kilometers under identical conditions on an indoor trainer after a thorough physiological and genetic screening whereby it is established that both individuals possess the exact same qualifications.

Secondly, the tdf was originally intended to sell newspapers. They sold newspapers reporting on interesting stories, some embellished, some real, some nasty and some heroic. This is another story that will be added to the long history of tdfs.

-the badger would support lemond, boy did that pan out well.
- lemond beat fignon by 8 seconds, perhaps because fignon underestimated aerodynamic considerations
- perhaps andy mis shifted because he was tired from 2 weeks of tdf, or perhaps his drivetrain jammed because he didn't check it before the race because he slept in 15m more than he should have.
-perhaps andy is lucky he didn't get injured when he fell in stage 2 (?), perhaps he is lucky because he had cancelara on the team in the cobbled stage.

Tdfs are won and lost because of the little things as well and that's part of the game and the beauty of the sport. The tdf has been stifled enough by overly calculated riding, the 'no one wants to lose' mentality, the high stakes involved and (over)specialisation. Some drama is good news, it's a good story.

Thirdly, unwritten rules do not count. Only official rules count. Sportsmanship is demonstrated not because of a rule, but in spite of rules. A athlete makes an individual decision and 'beyond the call of duty', not because he follows a rule that prescribes 'what he needs to do in such a situation. Just like a soldier who is sent to war is not automatically a hero, he becomes one when he makes the decision to go beyond what is required of him. Contador could have shown great sportsmanship (if he knew what had actually happened, a fact we haven't established yet), and he didn't. That's hardly something to slam him for.

Fourthly, given that 90+ pages have been dedicated to establish what exactly happened, and we still haven't come to a conclusion yet, i doubt contador had the time to figure that out in a split second when he passed schleck.

Fiftly, factually, andy did not have enough time to account for misfortune and factually, contador is in yellow. Contador has only 8s and he could face the same faith. If he wants to avoid those unfortunate incidents to affect his position, he better start putting some time in on andy.

Oh, and please do not insult forum members.

master piece

 

[Biological Entity]

He was caught up in the aftermath of Frank's crash and ultimately lost 1'13" to Andy Schleck. It was a race situation that Andy exploited to the detriment of the other GC contenders.

Similarly, they exploited what happened to Armstrong on Stage 9. He crashed in the run up, got back, but was exhausted from the effort and subsequently popped.

When AC attacked Andy on the climb to Mende, Andy wasn't paying attention and got gapped.

When Andy attacked AC today, AC was sitting in the back of the GC group and got gapped.

Andy was trying to press his advantage after attacking and in the process dropped his chain.

Now, I don't think any of the above points are in contention (it is what happened). What I'm struggling with is how AC is in the wrong here.

AC is in the wrong because he continued to attack the yellow jersy and his evenly matched rival when he had a mechanical at an utterly critical stage of the tour, against tour convention. AC has ADMITTED that this was a mistake.

Now, why do you disagree with AC that it was a mistake?

We also have the little fact that the tour is now over - you only had to look at how relaxed AC was in his video to know that one - which has ruined it for the fans.

 

[Night Rider]

Doesn't everyone in the peloton know what will happen if you try shifting under full power?

Post of the thread. Most people called it a mechanical, really it was a rider error.

Would the other sprinters sit up and wait if Cav dropped his chain a km or two out from the line? Don't be ridiculous.

 

[jmspinto]

.

Hard to have a clear opinion. One thing I know: all of this would be different if Franck was there too. Contador didn´t have to wait but didn´t have the need to say that didn´t understood whatever happened to Schleck (that was pretty stupid of him)!..
Contador already had the TT advantage on his side, now all has fallen in his arms. I sincerely hope that something similar happens to him on the next stages (specially on the last stage)!

 

[nia O'Malley]

I still belive that lance has the power to be with them, but now he is relax and enjoy his last tour, but if he wants he can help andy!

*facepalm*


And AC admitted nothing, where did he admit he made a mistake? All I've read pretty much says "tough sh*t"

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

Again, put yourself in Alberto's shoes. Lets say you went back to talk to the DS or whatever reason you drifted back a little. The only guy in the race that can beat you attacks you BECAUSE you will not be able to respond quickly. Your reaction would be "that crafty Andy, why, that was brilliant!" or like me, would you think something like "You little FU*KER! Okay, if that is the way you want to play, then lets play that way."

Maybe I am just a sick, sick person. My guess is however, that the great majority of men, if honestly assessing the situation, would tend towards my response, but your results may vary.

I'll have to look at it again when I get home because YT is blocked now. But if I were AC and I were back at the cars when AS attacked I would of course think it was lame. But, I would've also been ****ed at myself for being out of position. AC had Vino in the group, so why would he be at the back for any other reason than being out of position? He(I) should've been glued to AS's wheel. AS shouldn't have to wait until AC is on his wheel to attack.

I never called you sick, and I don't hate AC for attacking. I just wish he waited a little for AS as I think the time gap/jersey is cheapened a little. As I said before, an earned win is better than a gifted.

P.S. The little insult (bold) did not go unnoticed. I didn't say anything to provoke that, so why include it?

 

[Obeeone]

For those of you who didn't see this..... this reposted from a cycling news article...

Contador is sure to face a bigger test from the enraged Schleck on the road to Pau tomorrow, but will perhaps take consolation from the thoughts of some respected Tour veterans. Asked for their opinion on the incident, Laurent Jalabert, Bernard Thévenet and Bernard Hinault all described Schleck's incident as an inescapable part of racing and said they were looking ahead to see how Contador and Schleck will respond.

 

[nowhereman]

AC fans. Please admit this atleast.

When AC wins the Tour in a week's time, everyone will say it was because of Schleck's mechanical.

That's a fact. Admit it.

His win is now tainted.

AC has alienated millions of potential fans and supporters. All the support is behind AS now. Ac will probably win anyway but from now, forever, AC is a marked man.

What drugs are you on? There is no reason whatsoever to admit to the garbage you want people to admit to. In fact it is almost guaranteed that even if Contador would not have made up any time by Saturday. The Maillot Jaune would have been his by Sat. evening, just in time for the ride into Paris!
Andy's inability to ITT well has even got Menchov salivating about second place. So, I hope the Anger in Andy's stomach, and your imaginary "Collective" can power him into retaining 2nd place.
Before today, I could have gone either way, but the shrill howling by all the proponents of "fairness" has made up my mind, and given me a good laugh too!
No time to cry over spilt milk. Get up, dust yourself off, and put a trot on it, all the way to Paris. No room for whiners.

 

[santacruz]

He was going to win the tour anyways, he may as well have looked good doing it... I hope JV or Fabu sacrifice their toes into his spokes.

Hopefully Andy will at least serve up SS and DM some whoop-a$$ on the tourmalet, to say "you wanted to attack me for 2nd place??? suck my dust!!!"

 

[roundabout]

The most important thing for me is to have a clear conscience and I have that tonight. I didn't tell him to wait, that's for sure...

Nice reminder why i hate that pr!ck Martinelli.

 

[Anonymous]

What Contador did today made him 'grow on you', did it?

Methinks someone has spotted the regulars taking a certain position and has seen the writting on the wall.

You don't have to agree with these guys just because they might call you a pussy or something. Be brave and think for yourself. They're all bark and no bite anyway.

Erm no contador started growing on me over the last few months, with his dignified reactions to armstrongs bullcrap, and for his general attitude. I still have issues with the guy's preparation, but as a person he is growing on me. It helps that vino likes him. any freind of vinos is a freind of mine

But erm. I have my own brain thanks. And jumping on the bandwagon with these guys is not my style. I frequently am on my own with my opinions. I like it that way. If anything I normally disagree with everyone just for the sake of it.

I dont even know what other peoples opinions are to be honest, i came online and this thread was already 90 pages or something, i havnt bothered reading it. Ive had a quick look through to read any replies to me and thats it.

 

[Biffins]

...seriously? Bet you never saw a Tour before 1999....

Yeah I've been a fan for "only" 11 years.

Not all of us are 40+ ok?

 

[scribe]

AGAIN.

Did you see the opening Time Trial for one??

Let's break down this 3 week tour on the merits of advantages.....

ITT advantage: Contador
Cobbles advantage: Shrek/Saxo
Mountains advantage: Toss up, leaning Shrek based on the acceleration I saw today.
Opportunist based on mechanicals: Contador

Winner by a hair: Contador as decidedly advantage today's stage.

 

[checked]

AS is the aggressor, the other guys reacted to his attack. Do you expect AC to sit on his wheel and see if the attack will succeed before making his move? Of course not, he is expected to counter attack. AS's chain dropped while he's attacking, AC is focused on making his move.

 

[Steel4Ever]

Who cares?
People still argue about "The Hand of God".
What's done is done.
On with the show.

 

[Anonymous]

To be honest, i Blame cancellara. If he was any sort of teammate he would have gone to the front and made everyone slow down and wait for andy.

 

[scribe]

Yeah I've been a fan for "only" 11 years.

Not all of us are 40+ ok?

LOL! As a 40 something myself, if cracks me up to think I might try to use that same argument.

 

[Fairclough51]

Where does it end!?....

I can understand not attacking during a feed station, a crash that's not their fault or a 'nature break', but where does it end? Are they supposed to wait for EVERYTHING that might possibly go wrong? Perhaps if someone starts getting a bit tired, the others should sit and wait for them to get their breath back!? This is racing folks, things go wrong, mechanicals are one of the variables that make racing real....
I don't remember Valverde waiting for Cadel during the Vuelta last year when he got a flat..... what was the final time gap again and how long did he wait for a new wheel?....

 

[scribe]

Who cares?
People still argue about "The Hand of God".
What's done is done.
On with the show.

Oh, it's done.

 

[TheEnoculator]

My feeling on the issue is, this incident cannot be compared with tire punctures or crashing because of bad road conditions or fan interference (including dogs). Those are truly "bad luck" and absolutely nothing you could have done to prevent that from happening. In those cases, I agree with waiting for those riders. But Schleck's chain coming off has absolutely NOTHING to do with bad luck. He's supposed to know when to shift to not have the chain come off and he made a mistake. He was the race leader of 170 something highest-level riders, and virtually the best in the world, and he made a plain stupid and unnecessary mistake. You can't fault Contador for capitalizing the MJ making a stupid mistake. To me, Contador did nothing wrong. It's BS that he said he didn't know Schleck's chain came off at the moment though.

Schleck did not for a moment blame himself for making a mistake on the bike, but blame others for not waiting for him. Chavanel lost the yellow jersey because of TRUE bad luck and nobody waited for him. I think Schleck is angry now because he lost it to Contador at this late in the game. He wouldn't have felt this way if he lost it to some domestique of another team at Stage 2.