The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[Big GMaC]

i seen it... Sram's road UI is atrocious... it's like they tried to combine campy and DA and failed miserably

I quite like it. Never owned campy but prefer it to shimano measurably.

But I not a muppet so I don't upshift crosschain whilst climbing...

 

[Bicicleta]

I wonder if the fans in France will continue booing Contador at the jersey presentations. He looked like he was affected by it today.

 

[nicholaaaas]

I quite like it. Never owned campy but prefer it to shimano measurably.

But I not a muppet so I don't upshift crosschain whilst climbing...

i've only played with it for a few seconds... no way i would ever want to ride it

 

[Big GMaC]

i've only played with it for a few seconds... no way i would ever want to ride it

What don't you like? I mean I guess if you are a long term DA person it could be confusing, but I mainly rode track before so haven't built up a preference for one type or the other

 

[benpounder]

No, His hand is outside the shifter. That is circled as his finger pushes the shifting lever behind the brake lever
Except you know, the whole shifting whilst out of the saddle and attacking.

Maybe I should label the photo?

I'm not questioning where Andy's finger may be, only that the angle of the break lever looks like it has been pulled away from the head tube. As I dont think that is possible with any groupo, I have to question the perspective, and as such, I dont think claims made regarding what Andy's fingers were doing at that instant are credible. Please note, I'm not saying that he did not do what you are suggesting, only that the visual evidence offered is unpersuasive.

And unless i really cant see the photo, it looks like his arse is firmly planted in the saddle.

 

[nicholaaaas]

What don't you like? I mean I guess if you are a long term DA person it could be confusing, but I mainly rode track before so haven't built up a preference for one type or the other

i used to be a courier on a fixie with no brakes... i dont need none of that. but what i mainly dis-like it the dual function lever.

i used to have some broke a** ultegra that when i hit the upshift lever the downdhift part would go along with it. i modified my shifting motion after replacing it twice. i had to hold the big part of the lever still to up shift. pain in the **** but i could still win a field sprint.

 

[RupinTojelis]

Who waited for Chavanel when he had 2 puntures in stage 3 while wearing yellow? No-one. It is hypocritical to raise these points now.

As others have said:

Bruyneel:
“In the heat of the race and the finale, you cannot say to Contador, ‘wait for Andy.’ Andy didn’t wait for Contador on the cobblestones, either. You can’t say to Sammy Sánchez, I’ll let you go because I’ll wait for the yellow jersey. No, there are no gifts in this race.”

Riis:
“Sánchez and Menchov were going full gas. It won’t help to criticize. For us, it would have been better if they had waited, but we cannot expect any help in these circumstances. I think Contador waited at the beginning, but it took awhile before Andy was on his bike again. How long can Contador wait? I don’t know. Of course we’d have hoped he waited more. I don’t want to create a polemic, but how many guys crashed today? Nobody helps them, nobody waited. That’s how it is.”

 

[ulrichw]

Just wanted to post some clearer pictures - Schleck was definitely shifting:

Here he initiates the shift with his index finger:

A second or so later in the middle of the shift:

Oh - and as you can see, he's also out of the saddle...

 

[Bicicleta]

This is hysterical
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2010/7/19/1577508/stage-16-the-dudes-view

 

[Speedzero]

So then, I assume you are good with an attack on the ride into Paris? After all, that is still a stage in the race, yet tradition says whoever is in yellow at the end of 19 is "given" 20.

What if AS is 1:00 or less behind after the TT? Would he be justified in winning in stage 20?

Abso-freakin-lutely. It's a race.

Remember Vino taking time bonuses for the intermediate sprints to get ahead of Levi a few years back?

 

[ExRower]

Not sure if this has been posted already. Regardless of whether it was human error or a mechanical, Alberto says it was wrong to press on after Andy stopped and pins the blame solely on himself (no excuses).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdOJLuePexs

 

[benpounder]

Just wanted to post some clearer pictures - Schleck was definitely shifting

It certainly looks that way, but that is an entirely different screencap.

Listen folks, I am not faulting Contador for the time gaps - I think he was entirely in the right, I'm just saying blaming Andy's riding skills does not help your case.

 

[Big GMaC]

Just wanted to post some clearer pictures - Schleck was definitely shifting:

Here he initiates the shift with his index finger:

A second or so later in the middle of the shift:

Oh - and as you can see, he's also out of the saddle...

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I have been saying!!!!

Very Clear now.

And with the whole bent brake lever thing, that is just the angle of the Sram levers, I did a double take on my new bike a few times too

 

[nfwatso]

Yeah, too bad for Andy that Bert didn't wait. Too bad for Bert, too--it would have made people love him. I mean.. he's gonna win anyway so if he had waited he could have had both the win AND the love.

 

[benpounder]

Just wanted to post some clearer pictures - Schleck was definitely shifting

One final point. IF Schleck's shifting caused the problems, as you suggest, based upon those photos provided, why are you focusing on the shift levers for his rear derailuer when it is fairly obvious that the dropped chain was off the chain-ring?

 

[ozymandias]

Yeah I've been a fan for "only" 11 years.

Not all of us are 40+ ok?

We used to watch this race on the television, before this internet was even invented, if you can imagine that, son.

 

[nicholaaaas]

One final point. IF Schleck's shifting caused the problems, as you suggest, based upon those photos provided, why are you focusing on the shift levers for his rear derailuer when it is fairly obvious that the dropped chain was off the chain-ring?

poor shifting on the rear never caused a hiccup in the rear that dropped the chain off the front?

 

[anarchy]

true, sanchez and menchov were pulling but 1) they did not see what contador saw and so are not vulnerable to reproach 2) the time difference is significant here. Contador clearly chose ambition over honor -until he heard the boos. now the youtube confessional...what will jens voigt do?

 

[ozymandias]

Please post the unwritten rules and the number of occasions on which they were broken and by whom? If Contador didn't go and then lost the TDF, he would be remembered for the jerk he would have been if he didn't go. Posts like this that attack Contador as if he was a bad man, when it was Schleck that made the bad shift change, miss the mark completely. Please!

One of the unwritten rules is that they remain unwritten. Sorry.

 

[redbone4me]

Contador Needs To Be Checked Into a Ditch

Shame on Contador! He is blatantly lying about not knowing. Schleck had started his attack and had put some space between himself and Contador. Contador passes him as if he were standing still and does not think there might be a mechanical? You've got to be kidding me! It just shows what a cheap competitor he is. And you look back at some of the other times when he attacks his teammates when it wasn't necessary. It just goes to show this guy his no class. I hope the fans boo him to the point he breaks down and cries. I only hope that Andy uses this to climb like no other and just crushes Contador.

 

[benpounder]

poor shifting on the rear never caused a hiccup in the rear that dropped the chain off the front?

Of course it can, but it is rare. My point is, it is silly to try and build a case that Schleck made a rookie mistake.

Andy Schleck had a mechanical issue due to no fault of his own. Contador, so close and chasing so hard likely would not have recognized it for what it was. Van Den Broeck, Sanchez, and Menchov saw Schleck dismounting, but also saw Contador blasting up the road. I have no problem with any of these riders - they were, after all, doing just what their fans and sponsors would expect, and did what any other competitive pro-peloton athlete would have done given similar circumstances.

 

[JTPato]

Contador attack

Maybe we should remember that Andy Schleck only had the Yellow Jersey due to the actions of Cancellara slowing the bunch and allowing both Schlecks to get back to the bunch after the infamous crash in the rain.

 

[pedaling squares]

Not sure if this has been posted already. Regardless of whether it was human error or a mechanical, Alberto says it was wrong to press on after Andy stopped and pins the blame solely on himself (no excuses).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdOJLuePexs

Sure, Contador admits that it was not the right move, but what does he know? Only the CN forum can decide if his actions were appropriate, not some multiple GT-winning, yellow-jersey wearing, professional cyclist.

Question - why is this cycling related thread now in the non-cycling related cafe?

 

[ozymandias]

Also note this: In the first frame of that clip you can see AS in the first few moments of his attack, already gapping the group. A few frames later, still at 0:00, you can see Vino reacting while AC is behind Vino and others messing with something in his jersey back pockets since he's riding hands free. At :02 Vino is making progress, while AC is still "no hands".

Clip: www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP9OR-Pz2Yk

I stepped through the linked video frame by frame, and no frame shows AC riding hands free, messing with something in his jersey pocket. If you can post a still that shows that, then I'll believe it, otherwise I will assume you made a mistake.

 

[lagartija]

Very dissapionting. I thought Contador was a better ambassador than this. He claims not to have known, but he rode right past him and looked at him. He is not only a bad-sport but a lier. Watch out for karma Alberto...

rode past and looked at him , you obviously didnt watch the stage............for the record contador didny even turn his head foe 13 seconds after passing shleck, yes 13 sorry im anal, put it on a timer.......and he was full gas allready from behind, never looked at shleck at all, watch it again i did