The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[peacefultribe]

I've finally had the chance to watch most of the videos of chaingate. In all honesty, when AC got to Andy, it just looked like AS had a cramp or something, not a mechanical. AC would not have attacked if he knew that AS had a mechanical. AC was more than willing to wait until the TT, so no need to attack on a mechanical.

What people are emotional about is how sad it was to see AS trying to get back in the race. If he had just got back on, it wouldn't have looked so bad. Instead, there was great footage of him scrambling around, clock ticking. Very sad, but no need to take it out on AC. It's clear that AC most likely didn't know that there was a mechanical.

Anybody interview Vino?

 

[boris&co]

I'm not sure I understand all this. The implication seems to be that AS is some sort of weakling that needs special treatment to keep up with the bigger boys. This is clearly not the case. He's one of the strongest riders in the world. He's already proved on that he can dis the yellow jersey with the best of them, and Chapeau! to him for doing it.

As far as I can see the only mistake AC made was not attacking harder. I can't imagine Merckx or Hinault would have considered waiting for a millionth of a second.

For the love of God, it's a bike race. Should they all wait up because the Lanterne Rouge needs to blow his nose or something?

 

[Love the Scenery]

so which one of the sockpuppets are you?

You will please forgive my obtuseness, but I don't understand the reference, and hence am unable to compose a suitable witticism in reply.

 

[Love the Scenery]

AC's unsportman-like conduct.

I'm starting to get this sport called cycling. Let's see if I have it right. If you actually ride your bike as fast as possible, you are "unsportman-like." I assume this means that riding your bike fast is not good On the other hand, if you sit around and wait for your opponent to catch up with you, you are "sportman-like." So the goal of the sport is to sit around and wait for people. So, the ideal stage was that one where Cancellara said no one should race, and the race organizers said, you know what, you're right, it's better if nobody rides faster than the others.

Please explain to this rank newbie, then, why not ride all the stages neutralized? Surely this would be much more "sportman-like." Better yet, nobody should ride at all, they should just stand still by their bikes, waiting. I mean, I'm just saying, if that's "sportman-like," then that must be what the "sport" is about ... I think it could be cool, you know, lots of bike riders just kind of standing around waiting. Sort of a postmodern performance art sort of thing, very avant-garde, it might get a write-up in ArtNews.

 

[scribe]

I'm starting to get this sport called cycling. Let's see if I have it right. If you actually ride your bike as fast as possible, you are "unsportman-like." I assume this means that riding your bike fast is not good On the other hand, if you sit around and wait for your opponent to catch up with you, you are "sportman-like." So the goal of the sport is to sit around and wait for people. So, the ideal stage was that one where Cancellara said no one should race, and the race organizers said, you know what, you're right, it's better if nobody rides faster than the others.

Please explain to this rank newbie, then, why not ride all the stages neutralized? Surely this would be much more "sportman-like." Better yet, nobody should ride at all, they should just stand still by their bikes, waiting. I mean, I'm just saying, if that's "sportman-like," then that must be what the "sport" is about ... I think it could be cool, you know, lots of bike riders just kind of standing around waiting. Sort of a postmodern performance art sort of thing, very avant-garde, it might get a write-up in ArtNews.

250 years ago the French and English used to stand 50 paces from one another, in perfect rows and shoot each other in broad daylight. Then the Americans hid in trees and kicked their asses.

I'm hoping history repeats itself real soon....

 

[BroDeal]

250 years ago the French and English used to stand 50 paces from one another, in perfect rows and shoot each other in broad daylight. Then the Americans hid in trees and kicked their asses.

I'm hoping history repeats itself real soon....

Sorry. Today refusing to come out in the open and "fight fair" with the big countries is called terrorism.

 

[Red Lobster]

Sorry. Today refusing to come out in the open and "fight fair" with the big countries is called terrorism.

Really? Really? You don't think that whole bit about intentionally targeting civilian targets makes your analogy completely inapposite (not to mention inappropriate)?

 

[BroDeal]

Really? Really? You don't think that whole bit about intentionally targeting civilian targets makes your analogy completely inapposite (not to mention inappropriate)?

Uh-oh, It looks like the neocon crazies have come out to moan about civilians even as they ignore their responsibility for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis in an unprovoked war based on lies.

 

[Red Lobster]

Uh-oh, It looks like the neocon crazies have come out to moan about civilians even as they ignore their responsibility for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis in an unprovoked war based on lies.

Bizarre reply.

 

[Big GMaC]

Bizarre reply. [\QUOTE] Nice dodge.

 

[step23]

When I find myself in times of trouble, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree,
there will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is still a chance that they will see,
there will be an answer. let it be.

Let it be, let it be, .....

And when the night is cloudy, there is still a light, that shines on me,
shine until tomorrow, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of music, mother Mary comes to me,
speaking words of wisdom, let it be.

Let it be, let it be, .....
@ The Beatles
What a song! They wrote it scripting all that happened on that stage.
Wisdom? eh

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

of course Alberto Contador shouldn't have waited. The only mistake he did was apologize for doing his duty.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

wow. y'all are still on about this?

it's not that difficult to figure out. andy attacked and slipped his chain. he either shifted poorly, had an incorrectly tuned bike, had faulty factory equipment from the sponsor, or a combination of any of those three factors. whatever happened it was inside of andy/saxo/sram's control, not alberto/astana's.

alberto could have waited. he chose not to. whatever. the simple fact is that andy initiated the momentum that was in motion at the time he failed. then the race passed him by when he broke down by user/mechanical/equipment error.

the end result is that conta gained back the time (not quite) that he lost on the cobbles due to a similar mechanical and a crash. so if we were to neutralize all of the on-road episodes, alberto would be ahead by even more.

just let it go.

 

[sartoris]

It seems that most of the posters (particularly those posting for the 1st time in this thread) are giving the reason to AC over AS.

In a few ours we won't need to discuss about this anymore. Or won't we?

 

[The Hitch]

Having just seen a good repaly i have to conclude that contador knew that schleck had stopped, as when he passed schleck, he moved violently to the left in order not to hit a stuck to the ground schleck.

 

[Hawkwood]

I'm starting to get this sport called cycling. Let's see if I have it right. If you actually ride your bike as fast as possible, you are "unsportman-like." I assume this means that riding your bike fast is not good On the other hand, if you sit around and wait for your opponent to catch up with you, you are "sportman-like." So the goal of the sport is to sit around and wait for people. So, the ideal stage was that one where Cancellara said no one should race, and the race organizers said, you know what, you're right, it's better if nobody rides faster than the others.

Please explain to this rank newbie, then, why not ride all the stages neutralized? Surely this would be much more "sportman-like." Better yet, nobody should ride at all, they should just stand still by their bikes, waiting. I mean, I'm just saying, if that's "sportman-like," then that must be what the "sport" is about ... I think it could be cool, you know, lots of bike riders just kind of standing around waiting. Sort of a postmodern performance art sort of thing, very avant-garde, it might get a write-up in ArtNews.

+1
It's like the 19th century idea that it was unsporting to practise, hence some riders being less fit than others is not fair.

 

[fatsprintking]

Changing gears is a skill - just like decending, sprinting etc. If you are not able to do it properly then you deserve to be exposed.

Back in the day cyclists attacked all the time when their opponent was changing gears as it was understood that their lack of skill would potentially provide an advantage. STI shifters have taken away the emphasis on this skill.

If people make stupid equipment choices and compoents fail (ie carbo wheels on the pave), should we be allowing them to get away with it by waitig and calling it a mechanical?

Changing gear is a basic skill of cycling - AS should be able to work it out. We don't wait for people because they cant ride in an echelon - why should we wait for a person who cant change his gears? its not a mechanical, its a lack of skill.

 

[step23]

Ouch, this thread is still alive! I will offer some new thought about whose fault was this all situation. It was Vino's fault! He shouted at AC and screamed: ATTACK! ATTACK!!!! So Bertie had no other option as to attack! That's why AC apologized to Andy makes sense

 

[colnago1978]

Andy did't miss the gear,his bike jumped over the hole and chain fell off.

Contador is such a nice spanish guy,maybe Neil Young shoud do a song about him;you know; like "Cortez the killer"!

 

[sienna]

Cant just discuss this on a race thread. Espcially since i expect some words to come out of Andy at the end of the stage.

THis is likely the major debating point of the tour.


Discuss.

In a word – no.

 

[guncha]

Just re-watched the crucial stages:

Stage 2 to Spa: the was an oil spill and majority of GC favorites were involved in crashes. After these crashes peleton decided to stop racing and a victory was given to Chavanel. But it wasn't the decision of Contador to stop racing, it was the decision of major teams. Don't forget that Saxo had MJ during this stage and therefore Contador wasn't in unilateral decision making position.

Stage 3 full of cobbles: it has been well known that it will be one of major GC days of the Tour. Stages with cobbles are rare in TDF and we should ask the organizers why there were put in a route. Contador gained some time on a few GC rivals and lost some time to GC rivals as well. Andy was the major surprise of the day.

Stage to Luchon: everyone knows riders have race radios and Contador knew very well what has happened. Andy almost catched Contador on the hill but lost the stage on downhill because front group were working together while Andy was isolated. Contador could slow the tempo but he didn't.

 

[henryg]

Andy did't miss the gear,his bike jumped over the hole and chain fell off.

Contador is such a nice spanish guy,maybe Neil Young shoud do a song about him;you know; like "Cortez the killer"!

http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cycling/velocenter-tdf-stage-19-extra/

SRAM rep describing what happened. Schleck attacked in 38/12, severely cross chained.

Rider error or poor gear selection for what he was doing. He took a chance and blew it. A rider induced mechanical. Not a mech failure or act of God. Any properly functioning gruppo could do the same in that situation.

 

[MKirilenko]

Did any1 notice that Schleck, during the pose-attack together with Contador, said at one time (to AC) "I dropped my chain"? Im pretty sure, that's what he said. Lol, was it for real, or that supposed to be sarcasm?

 

[shouldawouldacoulda]

Ouch, this thread is still alive! I will offer some new thought about whose fault was this all situation. It was Vino's fault! He shouted at AC and screamed: ATTACK! ATTACK!!!! So Bertie had no other option as to attack! That's why AC apologized to Andy makes sense

I don't know if you were joking or not... but you are likely not far from the truth.

I don't think Contador knew for sure what was happening as he passed Schleck - imho. He was going full gas and he likely saw something, but probably wasn't sure, and dismissed it as a blown shift - something that all riders have done, and know are usually easily recovered from.

But Vino saw everything clearly. Because Vino stopped his acceleration when he caught Schleck. I don't know if the cars were actually with the group at the time of the incident. If not, then Sanquer or Martinelli wouldn't have been in position to be giving info to the riders on the radio. But Vinokourov would have been telling Contador what was going on using the radio, and very likely telling him what to do.

In this whole brouhaha the blame on Contador maybe misplaced.

Anyhow, in my opinion it was never an issue. I like Hesjedal's comment: "Schleck drew his sword and dropped it." The race was on, you don't stop. This said, I don't think Contador truly took advantage until the descent. For the entire tour he had been dropping Sanchez and Menchov at will. He didn't that day. I think he soft cocked it until Vino told him Schleck was back up front. Then Contador drilled it on the descent. I think that is fair enough. And I think Vino pretty much called the shots that day.

 

[jazzcyclist]

http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cycling/velocenter-tdf-stage-19-extra/

SRAM rep describing what happened. Schleck attacked in 38/12, severely cross chained.

Rider error or poor gear selection for what he was doing. He took a chance and blew it. A rider induced mechanical. Not a mech failure or act of God. Any properly functioning gruppo could do the same in that situation.

You know it's bad when your equipment manufacturer throws you under the bus.