The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[BigFatSal]

Hi newbie here, love watching it, but don't cycle myself. I have a couple of questions one of you may be kind enough to answer.

Firstly: if Schleck made an error,as most seem to suppose, how come he gets away with saying he doesn't know what happened and it's just a mechanical? Is it possible for a professional, at this level, not to know what happened?

Secondly: don't the manufacturers of the (is it SRAM?) component deserve a better explanation and an admittance of error, rather than a public perception of possible failed equipment?

It just seems unfair to me that Bertie gets slammed and Andy gets off with '' I don't know what went wrong.''

Sorry if questions a bit naive, don't know much about technical stuff..nowt actually, but willing to learn. thanks.

 

[sagard]

Wishful thinking. AS still would have been required to get 1+ minutes on AC on Tourmalet. That strategy would not have changed.

The mechanical is an afterthought if AC wins by more than 39 seconds, which is what he gained in stage 15.

It isn't an afterthought. AC had the chance to be the ultimate sportsman. I think Schleck deserved around a 20-25 second punishment for throwing his chain, I don't think he should have lost the jersey.

That said, Contador can't control the gaps to perfection.

 

[neineinei]

It isn't an afterthought. AC had the chance to be the ultimate sportsman. I think Schleck deserved around a 20-25 second punishment for throwing his chain, I don't think he should have lost the jersey.

That said, Contador can't control the gaps to perfection.

The appropriate punishment for throwing your chain is the time it takes you to put it back on.

 

[kurtinsc]

ESPN's noontime radio show (Colin Cowherd) actually mentioned the incident. He's got absolutely no clue about cycling... probably less then the average person who started paying attention when Lance won his second or third tour in the US.

I just thought his take might be somewhat representitive of a US sportsfan with no cycling background.

He pretty much made fun of anyone (particularly the french) who thought Contador should have waited. His view was that if a defender in basketball or football loses a shoe during a play, or in a race in track in field... you don't just stop and let them recover... you take advantage of it.

His view was that anyone who thought Contador should have waited was a ***.



Just thought I'd share with you what the "average" sports fan in the US might think about this.

 

[scribe]

ESPN's noontime radio show (Colin Cowherd) actually mentioned the incident. He's got absolutely no clue about cycling... probably less then the average person who started paying attention when Lance won his second or third tour in the US.

I just thought his take might be somewhat representitive of a US sportsfan with no cycling background.

He pretty much made fun of anyone (particularly the french) who thought Contador should have waited. His view was that if a defender in basketball or football loses a shoe during a play, or in a race in track in field... you don't just stop and let them recover... you take advantage of it.

His view was that anyone who thought Contador should have waited was a ***.



Just thought I'd share with you what the "average" sports fan in the US might think about this.

Additionally. The sportscast on Versus (of all places) laughed at footage of Andy and his anger belly comment.

 

[dolophonic]

Didn't they say he looked like a stick insect !

 

[offbyone]

Of course he should have waited. He wouldn't have made a public apology if he didn't know he was wrong. And if he was classy he would have just told the other riders to wait and they would have stopped.
Even if he didn't immediately realize it, he had plenty of time to sit up later or talk it over with the riders in his group, the guy hammered it to the end. I give him credit for apologizing though, however that doesn't return the time. If he wins by < 30 seconds he will have to settle for a win with an asterick.

 

[BroDeal]

Ryder Hesjedal has the final word. "You draw your sword and then drop it, you die."

That is all.

 

[hamperium]

dont wait on schleck, rabo already did it in stage 2
otherwise menshov was not in the yellow

so contador dd nothing wrong

 

[Hugh Januss]

It is called provocation and trolling. It is sometimes best simply not to respond.

Susan

With this particular poster I think it is best called humor.

 

[Love the Scenery]

Fair Play is a license to cheat

There's a reason why "fair play" was banned in soccer--it was being abused in order to cheat. People threw themselves on the ground to prevent the opposing team from attacking. Oh, oh, oh, it hurts, kick the ball out of bounds or you are a bad person! Needless to say, most of the time the person who was "injured" was faking it for tactical advantage.

Cancellara's "neutralization" of a stage was a shameless and cowardly act of pure cheating. It gave an advantage to his team, wrapped up in an aura of resistance against the evil oppressive TDF authorities, who make the Tour "too difficult." Oh, woe is me, this stage is so difficult, my teammate might lose time, what will I do? I know, I've got the yellow jersey, so I'll just tell everyone today's stage is neutralized. Yay! That means my teammates and I can ride like s**t, fall off our bikes, and there will be no consequences. Isn't it great to be wearing yellow?

So, let's follow this to its logical conclusion. Let's say I have the yellow jersey and I'm feeling bad on a climb, maybe I've got a hunger knock. What to do? I know, I'll slip my chain. Then I'll whine and whine and whine, and since I've got the yellow jersey, everyone has to wait for me. Or better yet, I'll fall down and cry, cry, cry. And the peloton will just sit there waiting for me. Yay! No need to race if I'm in yellow. Anything bad happens, I'll just make everyone wait for me.

Folks, get real. "Fair play" is total BS. Cancellara abused it. Schleck tried to abuse it and it didn't work. Back in 2003, Tyler Hamilton slowed down the lead group. What happened? Lance, instead of respecting the slowdown, took advantage that he had greater momentum while everyone else was slowing to wait for him, attacked, blew by the others, and won the tour right there. Fair play? I don't think so.

Saxo Bank, led by a man who cheated to win the Tour, has been repeatedly abusing "fair play" to paper over the fact that Schleck can't win the Tour on the road. He needs neutralized stages, protests, and people to wait for him on climbs, and then maybe he'll come close to winning the tour. That's not road racing, it's called gamesmanship. Contador's mistake wasn't attacking, it was apologizing. The only people who need to apologize are Cancellara and Riis. This idiotic "tradition" needs to be eliminated.

 

[scribe]

Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the saxo bank today....

 

[Love the Scenery]

Asterisks

As far as winning with an asterisk, if Schleck won only because his teammate conveniently neutralized a stage for him and then his main rivals kindly waited for him on a climb, THAT would be winning with an asterisk.

 

[RedFury]

Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the saxo bank today....

Actually, I find him quite awake and right on the money.

But hey! I understand it's your job to rag on AC -- otherwise you wouldn't have anything to post about.

Enjoy.

 

[Polish]

Ryder Hesjedal has the final word. "You draw your sword and then drop it, you die."

That is all.

Especially if when bending over to pick up said sword -
you get stabbed in the back.

 

[RedFury]

Especially if when bending over to pick up said sword -
you get stabbed in the back.

Beg to differ. The so-called "stab" was quite frontal. As in catch me if you can. And he couldn't.

Called racing where I hail from.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Hypothetically let's say Schleck's gears didn't screw up and he went over the top with a 20 sec. advantage over Contador. Let's say on the downhill as Contador is pulling him back Schleck over does a corner and falls, does Contador have to stop and wait where Schleck is lying? Or what if it is Contador who falls off while chasing, does Schleck have to wait untill Contador is up and the original time difference is reinstated?
This whole "unwritten rule" thing I believe is simply being missinterpreted by many people. I think for the most part it only aplies when there is a status quo situation in the group, when it is time to attack then it is game on, no mulligans.

 

[roundabout]

As far as winning with an asterisk, if Schleck won only because his teammate conveniently neutralized a stage for him and then his main rivals kindly waited for him on a climb, THAT would be winning with an asterisk.

so which one of the sockpuppets are you?

 

[BroDeal]

There's a reason why "fair play" was banned in soccer--it was being abused in order to cheat. People threw themselves on the ground to prevent the opposing team from attacking. Oh, oh, oh, it hurts, kick the ball out of bounds or you are a bad person! Needless to say, most of the time the person who was "injured" was faking it for tactical advantage.

Cancellara's "neutralization" of a stage was a shameless and cowardly act of pure cheating. It gave an advantage to his team, wrapped up in an aura of resistance against the evil oppressive TDF authorities, who make the Tour "too difficult." Oh, woe is me, this stage is so difficult, my teammate might lose time, what will I do? I know, I've got the yellow jersey, so I'll just tell everyone today's stage is neutralized. Yay! That means my teammates and I can ride like s**t, fall off our bikes, and there will be no consequences. Isn't it great to be wearing yellow?

So, let's follow this to its logical conclusion. Let's say I have the yellow jersey and I'm feeling bad on a climb, maybe I've got a hunger knock. What to do? I know, I'll slip my chain. Then I'll whine and whine and whine, and since I've got the yellow jersey, everyone has to wait for me. Or better yet, I'll fall down and cry, cry, cry. And the peloton will just sit there waiting for me. Yay! No need to race if I'm in yellow. Anything bad happens, I'll just make everyone wait for me.

Folks, get real. "Fair play" is total BS. Cancellara abused it. Schleck tried to abuse it and it didn't work. Back in 2003, Tyler Hamilton slowed down the lead group. What happened? Lance, instead of respecting the slowdown, took advantage that he had greater momentum while everyone else was slowing to wait for him, attacked, blew by the others, and won the tour right there. Fair play? I don't think so.

Saxo Bank, led by a man who cheated to win the Tour, has been repeatedly abusing "fair play" to paper over the fact that Schleck can't win the Tour on the road. He needs neutralized stages, protests, and people to wait for him on climbs, and then maybe he'll come close to winning the tour. That's not road racing, it's called gamesmanship. Contador's mistake wasn't attacking, it was apologizing. The only people who need to apologize are Cancellara and Riis. This idiotic "tradition" needs to be eliminated.

Cool story, bro.

 

[Rupert]

Sports Line

Didn't they say he looked like a stick insect !

That was a Sports Illustrated "cycling expert" commenting on the new Versus airhead "Sports Line" show. Goes to illustrate the average American sportsfan mentality. A real Sports Fan should be on the couch with chips and beer all weekend, not out on his/her bike...

 

[Hugh Januss]

so which one of the sockpuppets are you?

And you?......

 

[roundabout]

And you?......

Did i hit too close to home?

 

[Anonymous]

 

[AtletiSK]

Hypothetically let's say Schleck's gears didn't screw up and he went over the top with a 20 sec. advantage over Contador. Let's say on the downhill as Contador is pulling him back Schleck over does a corner and falls, does Contador have to stop and wait where Schleck is lying? Or what if it is Contador who falls off while chasing, does Schleck have to wait untill Contador is up and the original time difference is reinstated?
This whole "unwritten rule" thing I believe is simply being missinterpreted by many people. I think for the most part it only aplies when there is a status quo situation in the group, when it is time to attack then it is game on, no mulligans.

completely agree with you

 

[SilentAssassin]

Wishful thinking. AS still would have been required to get 1+ minutes on AC on Tourmalet. That strategy would not have changed.

The mechanical is an afterthought if AC wins by more than 39 seconds, which is what he gained in stage 15.

It factors in even more because it will require a lot more effort on the part of AS to get enough time on AC now before the TT than if he had that 39 seconds due to AC's unsportman-like conduct.

And the greater effort required by AS to get the gap he needs now could translate into a bad TT. It's not just seconds, it's a lot of factors. One can even argue the psychological factors such as the confidence that comes from wearing yellow.

Hopefully these two duke it out and expend a lot of energy so that Menchov can beat them both in the TT.