The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[red_flanders]

Ultimately, who knows, I'll admit that psychology has a huge and unpredictable role. But I think seeing Andy climb faster than Alberto makes for a pretty strong case.

All that means to me is that you have one guy who knew the race was completely at stake, jacked with adrenaline, who had to give EVERYTHING to get back.

The other guy was just attacking, giving it a serious dig, yes, huge effort, yes, but not the "Fark, I'm losing the Tour" kind of effort. It was all out from Andy. Contador was visibly looking back, taking turns, conflicted.

Nothing about who the strongest is was sorted today. Thursday.

 

[nia O'Malley]

I don't think that AC HAD to wait. I expected him too as I thought that was his character.

This could make for a very exciting stage on Thursday. Who knows? We might see a shake up tomorrow.

No, he definitely did not have to wait, and he definitely did not wait. I am sure he did not really see what happened, but he was going full steam ahead and refused to slow down when finally told about it (a twice winner of the tour should have full authority to stop the lower orders if he so wishes, saying he had to follow Menchov and Sanchez is utter naive rubbish, and not even because he was in front of them for a start); he lied about that one ( we were already riding hard when.....so....... heh? )
The only thing that points to is that he is absolutely not on top of things as some would like to think, and he is absolutely not confident he can go and drop Schleck dead before Paris. Today was very telling that way, and if anything, it should give Andy more confidence rather than less.
It wasn't nearly as telling when he went on ahead as when he decided he had to obfuscate the truth about it.

In this video: http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/1111
When the wheel hops at around -0:42, you see the idler go from well-extended, to fully retracted.

And, at around -0:07, you can see him trying to shift with his right hand, exactly when the incident occurs. (And after it happens, you can see him desperately trying to use his left hand to get the front derailer to get the chain to magically remount itself).

So, based on this what can the experts tell us about what happened? Was he trying to shift up or down? Did he accidentally shift down when he wanted up? Did he downshift off of the lowest gear? If so, would that be his fault, or the mechanics? Can you estimate what gear he was in from the idler position before the crash? Was it just an ill-timed shift, with too much pressure in the drive train to expect it to handle that shift?

Discuss.

Entirely moot, as there is no way in hell AC can be expected to see the difference and apply some sort of particular behaviour in response to it.

at the end of the day Contador did his fair share of waiting when schleck crashed on the 2nd stage - if he had overridden Cancellara's patron status (which he could of easily done) Schleck would have been many minutes behind and not even a contender.

And AS has been very quick about pointing out publicly this very fact today. Like I said earlier, half the journalists out there have edited what he said to add fuel to the fire. Cheap shots.

 

[armstrong]

Don't all riders have ear-piece race radios? Wouldn't AC, through his team captain, know what was going on with AS's mechanical problem?

 

[The Crusher]

Andy made the attack and wanted to make shift from the 42-ring to the big ring up on a climb and dropped his chain which locks up his frame.

Nope. This is not correct.

Look at the last 10 or so seconds of this video: http://www.cyclingfans.com/node/1111
It's a slow motion front view replay. You see Andy change gears with his right hand at the moment the event occurs. Only after he dropped the chain does he use his left hand, presumably hoping he can entice the chain to magically remount the chainring.

 

[nowhereman]

And let me also add that if I were AC and I were at the back when my main competitor attacked me, when I went by him struggling with his pedals, I would have thought "Sucks for you." Maybe it is "sporting" to attack when Andy did, but it was a bit of a weasel move, and one good turn deserves another IMO.

Bravo! I agree A+

 

[Gcraenen]

Remember when Eddy Merckx - the ultimate Mailot jaune - got punched in the liver by a bystander? He ended up vomitting blood as he crossed the finish line. Noone cut him any slack after that happened. And he didn't whine about it either. Now I'm not saying Schleck or Contador are whining, but we sure are.

 

[sartoris]

YES!!!! what a hollow and stupid victory for Contador can he really be proud?? I hope he gets switched into a ditch

Welcome to the forum on your first post.

Please keep on enlightening us.

And don't forget to bring your Shrekster friends along!

 

[alberto.legstrong]

And let me also add that if I were AC and I were at the back when my main competitor attacked me, when I went by him struggling with his pedals, I would have thought "Sucks for you." Maybe it is "sporting" to attack when Andy did, but it was a bit of a weasel move, and one good turn deserves another IMO.

I really think in the 10000 posts I have crawled thru so far, this is the point that has been lost. You've just been attacked, you're in full blown catch up mode, "That guy is a jerk!" (or more profane) and suddenly...'ooohhh that jerk has a problem..hahahah.....later sucker"

I really don't think there is a lot of calm cool thinking going on at a moment like that. I like AC and wished that he would have soft pedaled to the top with DM and SS.

I guess if he crushes AS in the time trial, it won't make any difference. The people who were looking for a reason to hate him have just been given an early Xmas present by AC. We'll never hear the end of it. oh well.

 

[karinc]

No respect for the maillot jaune ...
its more than a prize,
regardless of who's wearing it.
Berto sullies it.

Liggett says it was a great race?
Had Berto and Menchov and Sanchez sat up up for a bit,
THEN we'd have seen a great race.

Totally agree, I think Ligget is far too biaised in favour of Contador

 

[Anonymous]

Remember when Eddy Merckx - the ultimate Mailot jaune - got punched in the liver by a bystander? He ended up vomitting blood as he crossed the finish line. Noone cut him any slack after that happened. And he didn't whine about it either. Now I'm not saying Schleck or Contador are whining, but we sure are.

They also didn't whine like a little girl about riding over some stones, unlike Schlecklet. I just have a hard time feeling sorry for the smarmy little weasel. If Andy were really so opposed to cobbles in a GT because of what can happen mechanically or in a crash, he should not have used a crash (of his brother no less) to gain advantage over AC.

His belly is full of anger, but his mouth is full of whine.

 

[BroDeal]

It's a serious stretch to accuse AS of rider error. The replays don't show Andy hitting his shifters prior to this incredibly bad timed mechanical.

It did not just happen magically. He messed up a shift.

 

[sartoris]

Yep.

Contador is lying. These 2 are fighting it out for the TdF, they notice everything in a split second, they have too. He was behind when it happened and had a perfect view. He very quickly decided to put the hammer down and then when Mechov and Samu caught him he let them ride to make it look like he was not attacking, but he came past Schleck saw the chain off and Schleck having a mechanical and took advantage of it.

It will be unlikely of Contador to receive any such favours/respect in the future in this race and he may yet regret today in years to come.

It is quite sad as i was enjoying seeing these 2 able to get on and chat in the peloton with what seemed a healthy respect and friendliness towards each other, which we need in modern sport. Alas it seems the texan way of doing things has spread like a virus.

Melodrama is reaching unheard of frontiers in this forum

 

[saganftw]

whats it like...schlecks fanboys are LA fanboys too?

 

[warmfuzzies]

Fact of the matter is that Andy did not take enough time on Contador in the previous mountain stages to eliminate chance, such as 'mechanicals' (like punctures, jammed derailleurs, rubbing brakes, broken spokes), self inficted damage, such as mis-shifting, ending up in a ditch, bad descending and missing a corner and what not.

He actually conceded approximately 1m to Menchov and Sanchez in important TdF stages.

If this happens in the upcoming TT, no one would complain about the rider's actions, but just call it what it is:

"Bad luck"

Andy is motivated to the bone now... Perhaps that's what he needed to distance himself from his main rivals.

As a moderator of a website dedicated to the love of cycling, you should be ashamed of this comment for its complete lack of acknowledgement of the major tradition that was broken in attacking the yellow jersey during a mechanical. Your comment echoes Albertoe's action in terms of lack of class and respect for fair play in competition. Go get yourself some [edited by mod] gear, you earned it.

 

[Anonymous]

I really think in the 10000 posts I have crawled thru so far, this is the point that has been lost. You've just been attacked, you're in full blown catch up mode, "That guy is a jerk!" (or more profane) and suddenly...'ooohhh that jerk has a problem..hahahah.....later sucker"

I really don't think there is a lot of calm cool thinking going on at a moment like that. I like AC and wished that he would have soft pedaled to the top with DM and SS.

I guess if he crushes AS in the time trial, it won't make any difference. The people who were looking for a reason to hate him have just been given an early Xmas present by AC. We'll never hear the end of it. oh well.

And I think that most people here, having been attacked BECAUSE you were in a bad position and not because you were weakening, would have had little regard for the person who did it if they had a problem later. On an emotional level, it would be hard not to be have a strong reaction to a move like that even if he didn't have a mechanical (of his own making).

 

[armstrong]

Don't all riders have ear-piece race radios? Wouldn't AC, through his team captain, know what was going on with AS's mechanical problem?

Anyone ????

 

[Anonymous]

As a moderator of a website dedicated to the love of cycling, you should be ashamed of this comment for its complete lack of acknowledgement of the major tradition that was broken in attacking the yellow jersey during a mechanical. Your comment echoes Albertoe's action in terms of lack of class and respect for fair play in competition. Go get yourself some pisTOOLero gear, you earned it.

Hey d'bag, why didn't Schlecklet wait for Chavanel? Didn't he break your little rule too?

 

[ericthesportsman6]

Anyone ????

Yup, probably would have heard very quickly

 

[ianclark]

Why didn't Alberto just say, "Hey, I feel sorry for Andy, but those are the breaks." But no, he has to make up some ****-a-mamy story about how "I never saw nothin' and besides I had no choice". He sounds like a 4-year-old.

 

[saganftw]

Anyone ????

yes they have,AC claims he didnt know either...so DS didnt told him/AC didnt hear/DS told him AC decided to work hard on the front

actually AC said he was on the front and it was imposible to stop working at that point

 

[md2020]

I'm not buying Contador's explanation. I have a hard time believing he did not see something was wrong with Andy's bike.

I buy it. From his perspective AS had attacked and was covered by Vino. It most likely looked to AC that AS didn't have the legs and was backing off. AC is looking up the mountain at that point and drops the hammer.

That said, I don't have a problem with that initial attack and time gap. Sanchez and Menchov played a big part in opening that gap up and AC couldn't just let them go. The tricky part is that once he hears on the radio what happened he probably should've tried to slow the group down or at least make it look like he tried to slow it down.

Bottom line for me, though, is that I don't think you need to wait for someone in a moment like that when their problem was their own fault as it appeared to be with Scheck.

 

[karinc]

Didn't stop him yesterday

If he wants to prove he's the strongest then that's exactly what he should have done. Menchov and Sanchez can make their own decisions

If he wants to win the Tour at all costs then that's up to him

He could have waited, if he told the other's to wait they would have. Jan and others in front bunch waited for Lance, not only Jan...

 

[Barrus]

Anyone ????

He said he knew it only after he had passed Schleck, the radios can't give information the moment it happens, as they don't know it then either

 

[Gcraenen]

Have you ever tried to hear anything while the wind is whistling through your helmet at 60 miles an hour? Well, neither have I, to be honest, but I have on occasion eclipsed the 25 mph mark and even then I couldn't hear a thing!

 

[alberto.legstrong]

whats it like...schlecks fanboys are LA fanboys too?

More like Lance's fans have someone else to root for since Lance has decided to mail in this year's tour.

They'll never get over AC beating their boy last year.