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Teams & Riders The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

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Can't we say the same thing about Pog first Tour victory?

Bernal winning his 2nd GT comfirmed he is a legit GT rider. (Just like Pogacar did)

Not really for Pog.
Pog has shown he was a legit GT rider already at the Vuelta 19. Winning 3 mountain stages (and not in a break), and finishing 3rd overall.

With that said, I think people underestimate Bernal too much, he already shown so many times his strength when he's in form.

At the 2019 TdF, even before doing his solo attack, I could see he was already a level above Geraint Thomas and others.
It was really giving me 2012 TdF vibes, where Froome was a level above Wiggins but he still worked for him.

I don't see him winning a GT over Pog, Vingo, or Roglic, but anyone else yes.
 
Ok, to be clear, I am not “knocking” Bernal. I think Bernal is fantastic, big fan, but he did benefit from some unique situations. It is highly unusual for all of these things to impact one Tour:
  • The returning champion on the same team lost a lot of time because the stage was shortened after Bernal attack and an unusual decision was taken to take times at the top of the climb; the team was ostensibly still riding primarily for G, which he had earned as returning champ
  • The multi-Tour winner (Froome) still seemingly close to top form to have a devastating crash
  • The guy who was neck in neck and as close as anyone in 20 years to the Giro-Tour double (Dumoulin) to have a bad knee injury that
  • The guy who was fourth in the previous Tour and on an upward trajectory, who has proven to be a better ITTer and with better climbing numbers (Roglic) to be unable to secure leader status at the Tour
That doesn’t mean Bernal isn’t great. There is often context for a win. The previous year, 2018, had a lot of context that led to G winning, for example. Sastre’s win, Nibali’s win, etc.
 
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This guy doesn't have any quit in him

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Prior to the arrival of Pogacar, Bernal was seen as the biggest climbing talent in years. What he did at such a young age was truly remarkable. He was expected to win several TdFs at the time and not without a reason. I don't quite agree he is lucky to have just won one. He seemed out of this world for a couple of years, until Pogacar arrived with even more ridiculous displays of talent and Bernal himself suffered health issues.

Out of all the guys who were not fully fit for the 2019 TdF, nobody looked like a long term threat to Bernal. Froome was already pretty old and seemed to be fading compared to his 2012-2017 peak. Thomas, Dumoulin, let alone Pinot, were all going to be overshadowed by Bernal pretty soon. There were Roglic, Pogacar and Vingegaard coming up but we just didn't know yet. Bernal was so much better at his age than anyone several years before him that it seemed unlikely that he would have been succeeded by a few even bigger talents so soon.
 
Prior to the arrival of Pogacar, Bernal was seen as the biggest climbing talent in years. What he did at such a young age was truly remarkable. He was expected to win several TdFs at the time and not without a reason. I don't quite agree he is lucky to have just won one. He seemed out of this world for a couple of years, until Pogacar arrived with even more ridiculous displays of talent and Bernal himself suffered health issues.

Out of all the guys who were not fully fit for the 2019 TdF, nobody looked like a long term threat to Bernal. Froome was already pretty old and seemed to be fading compared to his 2012-2017 peak. Thomas, Dumoulin, let alone Pinot, were all going to be overshadowed by Bernal pretty soon. There were Roglic, Pogacar and Vingegaard coming up but we just didn't know yet. Bernal was so much better at his age than anyone several years before him that it seemed unlikely that he would have been succeeded by a few even bigger talents so soon.
I mean if you're looking through the lens of 2019 you're right, though Pogacar had a huge Vuelta.
 
Ok, to be clear, I am not “knocking” Bernal. I think Bernal is fantastic, big fan, but he did benefit from some unique situations. It is highly unusual for all of these things to impact one Tour:
  • The returning champion on the same team lost a lot of time because the stage was shortened after Bernal attack and an unusual decision was taken to take times at the top of the climb; the team was ostensibly still riding primarily for G, which he had earned as returning champ
  • The multi-Tour winner (Froome) still seemingly close to top form to have a devastating crash
  • The guy who was neck in neck and as close as anyone in 20 years to the Giro-Tour double (Dumoulin) to have a bad knee injury that
  • The guy who was fourth in the previous Tour and on an upward trajectory, who has proven to be a better ITTer and with better climbing numbers (Roglic) to be unable to secure leader status at the Tour
That doesn’t mean Bernal isn’t great. There is often context for a win. The previous year, 2018, had a lot of context that led to G winning, for example. Easter’s win, Nibali’s win, etc.
Nobody can win a grand tour without luck, but this is just, once again, looking at things from one perspective, from one side of the coin. Cognitive dissonance optima forma.

Bernal, too, suffered bad luck, as he was never meant to start in the Tour de France. He was working towards the Giro, until he broke his collarbone in early May. Meaning he had about 6 to 7 weeks to prepare for a TDF participation. By the time his form hit in week three, on his terrain, they scraped two of the biggest, highest climbs in the race. His numbers weren't on the level of Vingegaard, but they were still really good. Somehow this is viewed as a knock on his victory, which is bogus.
 
I agree it is fantastic he is coming back and we should all applaud his determination. But it was a fortuitous GT, relatively speaking, certainly compared to the last 3 Tour wins IMO. Roglic wanted to ride the Tour but was turned down so rode the Giro, where he crashed, got sick, and lost the Giro. Dumoulin looked like the next world beater in 2018 but his career basically ended, at least as a Gt rider, in a crash in 2019, so that certainly had an impact IMO. Same with Froome’s crash.

I could be wrong, but what I remember is Bernal going on a long range attack and everyone assuming it was part of a coordinated plan with G, but then G didn’t get to ride across because the stage was shortened.
The only reason I responded was you claimed the shortened stage 19 helped Bernal win the 2019 Tour - actually it only helped everyone else. As I replied to Red Rick, the longer the roads climbed that day the greater the advantage Bernal had. Anyone watching the stage saw this. It was a demonstration of how some riders, if on form, are simply better at altitude. Google the stage and watch.

On the Col d l'Iseran Bernal broke away from the GC group, caught and simply rode away from the defending champ Geraint Thomas and cracked Simon Yates who tried to go with him. As all this was happening the yellow jersey Julian Allaphillipe was destroyed. The most likely outcome had the full stage proceeded to Tignes (2,113 metres).is Bernal would have extended his lead further.

As for him winning that Tour, we could make claims riders were lucky because of who wasn't there for almost anyone except a handful of the greatest. But it is a stretch to assume Roglic might have beaten Bernal in 2019.

The other thing remarkable when he won was his age. When Bernal won in 2019 he was the youngest winner since 1909. Maybe we forget as Pog redefined young rider.
 
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Prior to the arrival of Pogacar, Bernal was seen as the biggest climbing talent in years. What he did at such a young age was truly remarkable. He was expected to win several TdFs at the time and not without a reason. I don't quite agree he is lucky to have just won one. He seemed out of this world for a couple of years, until Pogacar arrived with even more ridiculous displays of talent and Bernal himself suffered health issues.

Out of all the guys who were not fully fit for the 2019 TdF, nobody looked like a long term threat to Bernal. Froome was already pretty old and seemed to be fading compared to his 2012-2017 peak. Thomas, Dumoulin, let alone Pinot, were all going to be overshadowed by Bernal pretty soon. There were Roglic, Pogacar and Vingegaard coming up but we just didn't know yet. Bernal was so much better at his age than anyone several years before him that it seemed unlikely that he would have been succeeded by a few even bigger talents so soon.
No he wasn't the biggest climber prospect in years. A reasonable guy could see by far he never demonstrated the climbing level of Froome. A funny thing is he won a Tour but Quintana reached a higher level in his career than Bernal despite not winning the Tour (he was unlucky to live in the era of prime Froome).
Pogacar was different, we could see how strong he would be because he always showed a strong engine (very important to dominate gt's for years. If we look to modern cycling, we never had a pure climber who dominated an era.)
 
Bernal shipped another 8 minutes today. Does Ineos let him try and get a stage win from the break, or is he stuck with domestic duties for the remainder of the race?
He is on domestique duties. I saw him carrying a lot of bottles for his teammates towards the end. I don't know whose decision is this one. He was still close when he pulled the plug (Cauterets). And at the front. How are you going to find out if you will come back to the top if you don't make an effort day after day. That was the original plan. If he had plans to be in the podium and was demotivated for the results from the first stages then it was very stupid. It is just my opinion. Does INEOS believe that he will be key player for Carlos later in the race? we'll see . If he is not a player then he is wasting an opportunity to test himself. We'll see how the race unfolds but it would be very disappointing if he continues to do a Froome!
 
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Just what I thought, Bernal to Vuelta. He did say something during the Tour that hinted going to he Vuelta.

 
Just what I thought, Bernal to Vuelta. He did say something during the Tour that hinted going to he Vuelta.

Nice. it’s not like INEOS lack riders so I suspect it’s because they believe it’s good for his further recovery.

Exciting to see how high he can get his level to after his big crash and all the smaller ones afterwards.
Probably needs a big leap to compete with Pogi and Vingegaard, even compared to his 2019 level, but podium in TdF or a Giro/Vuelta would be massive for him after what he has been through.
 
Exciting to see how high he can get his level to after his big crash and all the smaller ones afterwards.
Probably needs a big leap to compete with Pogi and Vingegaard, even compared to his 2019 level, but podium in TdF or a Giro/Vuelta would be massive for him after what he has been through.

Yes, in his favor is his age. At 26, Bernal's physiological ceiling (for grand tours) should be higher than when he was 22 - particularly as his crash means he hasn't been racing much. Obviously we don't know what effect his injuries have had, but this is good news.

I also wonder about his back problems, were these resolved or is it still a possibility that might reveal itself late in a grand tour as we saw in 2020 TdF?
 
No he wasn't the biggest climber prospect in years. A reasonable guy could see by far he never demonstrated the climbing level of Froome. A funny thing is he won a Tour but Quintana reached a higher level in his career than Bernal despite not winning the Tour (he was unlucky to live in the era of prime Froome).
Bernal hasn't been around long enough to compare with Quintana. I doubt 2019 would be peak Bernal without the crash - the question remains on his back issue.
 
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Doesn't anyone know if he is going for back up for GC? If so what would he a win for him, 10th ish?
I don't know, but what I know is Bernal desperately needs to show that his level has improved since Tour de France going into 2024. That can be through a nice top-10 (or even better), solid domestique work and/or breaks. If it hasn't, I might fear that he's a lost cause and will never get back close to what he was. Now, its still relatively early, so showing signs of improvements here will be a good marker for next year.

I assume its just Gerant 1, while Bernal, Sivakov and maybe even De Plus gets to stay up there as long as they can Ineos-style. So he will get his opportunities, and it's not in the cards he has to bury himself for anyone given how the field looks. He might even be better than Thomas, but thats only speculation and hope.

But Ineos should really prioritize Bernal and his progression and development, especially given all their GC-guys are leaving outside of him and Thomas, and Thomas is old, so its incredibly important that he gets some nice confidence and belief that it's possible to get back. Tour de France was always going to be super hard given the incredibly high level, now, with a Tour in the legs and some good preparation in a weaker field, he should be able to ride at least a top-10 in my opinion. Otherwise its looking bad.
 
His comments sounded very uplifting. Maybe he needed a lot of racing this year? Valverde's level wasn't great at all in 2012, he did a pretty underwhelming Tour, but that was what he needed to get ready for the Vuelta. Now I don't expect a peak Valverde performance here by Bernal, but if he doesn't show some form now, its very bad IMO.

I think Valverde had an early crash in the Tour that year.
 
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