The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

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If we read the actual quote about his withdrawal we see:

"Egan is a true champion who loves to race, but he is also a young rider, with many Tours ahead of him, and at this point, on balance, we feel it is wiser for him to stop racing," Brailsford said

Translation: he would be fit to continue and this isn't a medically enforced withdrawal.

Egan seems a very decent fellow and I wish him well, but he has used the media to try and force Ineos' hand on this (as Pinot has also been trying). Within 24hrs it went from "I have to accept the others have better legs" with no mention of injury to "that injury I had a few weeks back is now really troubling me and making it almost impossible to ride". I am not going to rag on a rider for youthful naivety or emotion, but he could have handled this better.

Ineos are a complete mess though, they are destroying relationships with their main GC riders, and this latest episode doesn't scream of harmony. Plus if I'm a domestique who has to suffer and service others every day this withdrawal does nothing for my motivation. Ineos will leave the tour completely empty handed after this. I genuinely think this step reduces Bernal's future potential (assuming I interpret Brailsfords quote above accurately).

We hear increasing speculation of lead riders "struggling to gain motivation when things don't go their way" (I have heard that on TV specifically about Buchmann and Carapaz at this tour, but I think applicable to Pinot and Bernal). If that speculation has any grounding then these are not team players who extract the most support and effort from their teammates. If Bernal had gone back each day to collect supplies from the team car and hand them out to his colleagues, then gone straight to the grupetto then his team mates would likely ride through any difficulty for him in future tours. But instead we appear to have one rule for the poster child and one rule for the rest of the team when times get tough.

Give me a Dumoulin (destroying his own GC position for the team) or a even a Sagan (incredibly determined in a futile effort) any day. I'm not comparing apples with apples with that, but I do think we can draw some conclusions about the mental makeup of some riders by how they conduct themselves when their personal ambitions for the year are in ruins.
 
First good decision in a while. Just hope they don't plan to heal Bernal by sending him to another GT this year. Heal physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually first and after sort out the mess that has build up in the team.

Only then he should race again at this level.
 
If we read the actual quote about his withdrawal we see:

"Egan is a true champion who loves to race, but he is also a young rider, with many Tours ahead of him, and at this point, on balance, we feel it is wiser for him to stop racing," Brailsford said

Translation: he would be fit to continue and this isn't a medically enforced withdrawal.
What a ridiculous pile of total speculation this whole post is...

If he in pain and can't ride at anywhere close to 100% then what's the point in just continuing and possibly putting yourself in more danger....


Within 24hrs it went from "I have to accept the others have better legs" with no mention of injury to "that injury I had a few weeks back is now really troubling me and making it almost impossible to ride". I am not going to rag on a rider for youthful naivety or emotion, but he could have handled this better.
You ever heard of bluffing? Maybe you don't want to talk about your injuries at length as soon as they come up. Maybe he feels a lot worse after another day of racing (he lost 7 minutes then 27 minutes...). Something you have no idea about but speculate about his feeling anyway..


Ineos are a complete mess though, they are destroying relationships with their main GC riders, and this latest episode doesn't scream of harmony.
One of their GC riders is leaving, one was in horrible form and didn't deserve to be selected, one is injured.

Plus if I'm a domestique who has to suffer and service others every day this withdrawal does nothing for my motivation.
...

We hear increasing speculation of lead riders "struggling to gain motivation when things don't go their way" (I have heard that on TV specifically about Buchmann and Carapaz at this tour, but I think applicable to Pinot and Bernal). If that speculation has any grounding then these are not team players who extract the most support and effort from their teammates. If Bernal had gone back each day to collect supplies from the team car and hand them out to his colleagues, then gone straight to the grupetto then his team mates would likely ride through any difficulty for him in future tours. But instead we appear to have one rule for the poster child and one rule for the rest of the team when times get tough.
If domestiques hate when their leaders get injured so much then we can only imagine the situation at FDJ the last 3 years. You would imagine that grown adults know that these situations can happen and that team leaders shouldn't just carry on for no reason other than 'honour' or some other toxic macho reason.

One rule for the 'poster child' (hey, no biases in your post, huh...) and one for the rest is literally what team leadership is. Injured Tour de France champion should be a domestique for his own domestiques just because they do it already for him. Yes, we always see this happening.. Totally sensible.

I genuinely think this step reduces Bernal's future potential (assuming I interpret Brailsfords quote above accurately).
Just seems like nonsense, honestly. Never heard of rider coming back from an injury to do well? Never mind the whole situation that has ruined half the season.

Give me a Dumoulin (destroying his own GC position for the team) or a even a Sagan (incredibly determined in a futile effort) any day. I'm not comparing apples with apples with that, but I do think we can draw some conclusions about the mental makeup of some riders by how they conduct themselves when their personal ambitions for the year are in ruins.
Dumoulin and Sagan aren't injured or unhealthy. They're just not good enough to win the Tour or win stages, as we have seen. Dumoulin is helping Roglic win the Tour and Sagan is trying to get green. Bernal has no GC leader to help and won't achieve anything or help the team win a stage just by finishing 27 minutes+ down every day
 
May 2, 2011
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Bernal dropped out of the tour. Did not start stage 17.

If it is really his back and knee I think it is a good idea. If it is a problem with his prep, and it ever comes out that it was...it will look awful. I think it was the back and knee due to the way he was on and off before he lost 7min
 
When I saw him going backwards on stage 15 in such uncommon way, I knew right away he was either seriously ill or injured -or both. then stage 16 riding with the grupetto made the entire situation quite disturbing, So I'm OK with him abandoning Le Tour so he can heal properly & perhaps fold this horrendous year altogether and prepare for the next from scratch.
 
What a ridiculous pile of total speculation this whole post is...

If he in pain and can't ride at anywhere close to 100% then what's the point in just continuing and possibly putting yourself in more danger....




You ever heard of bluffing? Maybe you don't want to talk about your injuries at length as soon as they come up. Maybe he feels a lot worse after another day of racing (he lost 7 minutes then 27 minutes...). Something you have no idea about but speculate about his feeling anyway..




One of their GC riders is leaving, one was in horrible form and didn't deserve to be selected, one is injured.



If domestiques hate when their leaders get injured so much then we can only imagine the situation at FDJ the last 3 years. You would imagine that grown adults know that these situations can happen and that team leaders shouldn't just carry on for no reason other than 'honour' or some other toxic macho reason.

One rule for the 'poster child' (hey, no biases in your post, huh...) and one for the rest is literally what team leadership is. Injured Tour de France champion should be a domestique for his own domestiques just because they do it already for him. Yes, we always see this happening.. Totally sensible.



Just seems like nonsense, honestly. Never heard of rider coming back from an injury to do well? Never mind the whole situation that has ruined half the season.



Dumoulin and Sagan aren't injured or unhealthy. They're just not good enough to win the Tour or win stages, as we have seen. Dumoulin is helping Roglic win the Tour and Sagan is trying to get green. Bernal has no GC leader to help and won't achieve anything or help the team win a stage just by finishing 27 minutes+ down every day
Speculation is a large part of what a forum is about. For instance when you say I should disregard the exact words Bernal actually said and consider instead that he was bluffing - that is pure speculation on your part. Here are a couple of questions for anyone:

Q1) if Bernal was so badly injured and this was the cause of him falling out of contention then why did he then attack on the stage after he fell put of contention (something Pinot also did coincidentally)?

Q2) if Bernal was so badly injured and suffering yesterday then why does Brailsford say "on balance" we decided to withdraw him rather than something like "there is no point in him carrying on" or "the medical advice was to withdraw him?"

You are making an assumption that Bernal is badly injured and deteriorating and I am not considering that that is the opinion of Ineos management. If it wasn't for the condensed season meaning there might be hope of Bernal gathering some form for another GT then I think " on balance" Brailsford would have made Bernal ride to Paris (i.e. that he doesn't have a race ending injury).

The peloton, including Ineos, is filled with riders battling on from knocks after crashes. Going through the pain barrier so that they can offer the team assistance when their body allows it. Therefore, I consider it sensible to ask the defending champion to honour the race by seeing out the last five days and supporting his team in whatever small way he can manage if called upon - even though his personal ambitions have fallen through.

I've seen team leaders and GT winners passing bottles for colleagues or doing a turn on the front when their own ambitions have fallen away (e.g. Dumoulin this year, Cavendish with Sky). It's not an outlandish concept in teams with strong discipline and togetherness.

And yes, you have detected my underlying bias against young dynamic Colombian climbers who animate races.
 
Sep 15, 2020
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A year ago he was the future winner of 7 Tours. Eeven right before this Tour, most had him as clearly a step above Pogacar among young riders. Now...

If you're Brailsford, do you throw all your tricks at improving Simon Yates' TT ability and send him as your Tour leader rather than sticking with a climber who at least in part won the Tour due to a weak field and a shortened stage or reverting to a 35-year-old GT? Obviously, too early to say, and a lot can change, but it's a different world now than before.

Hoping Bernal figures this out and comes back to form ASAP. While I've never thought he was quite the world beater others did, he is all class.
It's really easy to armchair quarterback, but I'm going to anyways ;)

Last year at the Tour, Egan Bernal was all the rage, but it never sat 100% with me, because of Stage 19 (the one with the landslide). Bernal did well on Stage 20, the uphill TT, but everyone knew he would because he is a good climber.

But still, Bernal never won a stage. (I don't count anyone as being the winner of Stage 19/landslide)

I predict (let the hate flow) that Bernal never wins the TdF again. And I would not be surprised if he never wins a Grand Tour ever again.
 
To clarify then. The only time Bernal attacked in the race after falling out of contention. Does that help jog your memory?

Care to have a stab at either question or shall I assume that you cant think of an answer and my point is valid?
 
If we read the actual quote about his withdrawal we see:

"Egan is a true champion who loves to race, but he is also a young rider, with many Tours ahead of him, and at this point, on balance, we feel it is wiser for him to stop racing," Brailsford said

Translation: he would be fit to continue and this isn't a medically enforced withdrawal.

Egan seems a very decent fellow and I wish him well, but he has used the media to try and force Ineos' hand on this (as Pinot has also been trying). Within 24hrs it went from "I have to accept the others have better legs" with no mention of injury to "that injury I had a few weeks back is now really troubling me and making it almost impossible to ride". I am not going to rag on a rider for youthful naivety or emotion, but he could have handled this better.

Ineos are a complete mess though, they are destroying relationships with their main GC riders, and this latest episode doesn't scream of harmony. Plus if I'm a domestique who has to suffer and service others every day this withdrawal does nothing for my motivation. Ineos will leave the tour completely empty handed after this. I genuinely think this step reduces Bernal's future potential (assuming I interpret Brailsfords quote above accurately).

We hear increasing speculation of lead riders "struggling to gain motivation when things don't go their way" (I have heard that on TV specifically about Buchmann and Carapaz at this tour, but I think applicable to Pinot and Bernal). If that speculation has any grounding then these are not team players who extract the most support and effort from their teammates. If Bernal had gone back each day to collect supplies from the team car and hand them out to his colleagues, then gone straight to the grupetto then his team mates would likely ride through any difficulty for him in future tours. But instead we appear to have one rule for the poster child and one rule for the rest of the team when times get tough.

Give me a Dumoulin (destroying his own GC position for the team) or a even a Sagan (incredibly determined in a futile effort) any day. I'm not comparing apples with apples with that, but I do think we can draw some conclusions about the mental makeup of some riders by how they conduct themselves when their personal ambitions for the year are in ruins.
Buchmann actually rode for Sagan, he was part of the train that tried to get Bennett in trouble on at least two stages. He also carried bottles for the others, I saw that on TV.
The only reason Pinot is still in the race is to honour the race and do the public a favor, he obviously has no chance to win anything anymore.

I think all this speculation about the mental weakness of riders is mostly that: speculation. I'm very sure each of them goes through a lot of pain, though the amount will be different, but I think none of them is really mentally weak, otherwise they would hardly be at the Tour de France. And I think it is not very nice to talk like that about people, when we have no idea what they are going through.
 
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To clarify then. The only time Bernal attacked in the race after falling out of contention. Does that help jog your memory?

Care to have a stab at either question or shall I assume that you cant think of an answer and my point is valid?
No I don't understand either.
The only attack that he did was on the flat on Saturday (stage 14) when they were riding into the city. Is that what you are talking about?
That's nothing IMHO.
We take it you don't like the guy. He is gone now. Don't worry.
 
No I don't understand either.
The only attack that he did was on the flat on Saturday (stage 14) when they were riding into the city. Is that what you are talking about?
That's nothing IMHO.
We take it you don't like the guy. He is gone now. Don't worry.
Too bad we all missed that epic gruppetto attack!

So Pinot is your example? really?
LOL so hard!!!
Maybe you don't see it but Pinot is riding with a pistol behind his back!
I think the point is that Pinot is also battling back pains, yet he's still in the race. But of course you can't really compare situations 1to1.
 
I think the point is that Pinot is also battling back pains, yet he's still in the race. But of course you can't really compare situations 1to1.
My answer about Pinot is still the same. That is exactly my point. If Bernal he gets to a point or age of having to DNF because of illnesses, crashes, bonking, bad training they'll put a pistol behind his back as well. Whether merited or not, that's for the sponsors to decide.
 
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