Teams & Riders The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

[CyclistAbi]

This year they should have done it, listen to what Bernal was saying or asking for, send him to Giro. They had to know, they had a bit of a hierarchy situation in their team. And at the end sending Bernal in a battle with JV, giving him a rather inexperienced team. Removing the experienced guys, to only put more weight on his shoulders.

In the end that was just not cool.

 

[Gigs_98]

Haven't read up on it, but I could imagine it primarily affects recovery, so in that case it would sort of fit with going downhill since Occitanie

He's also the only one who did 3 stage races between end of lockdown and TdF IIRC.

Now this is some half knowledge I mostly picked up when a friend of mine wrote his highschool finals paper about overtraining in Triathlon, but iirc the problem with overtraining is that you basically don't give your body and your muscles the time to recover and actually build the strength. Like, usually it goes:

Training-->recovery-->during the recovery your body actually gets stronger-->more training-->...

Now if you skip the recovery part, or at least cut it short all you do during training is exhausting your body and destroying your muscles without them ever growing and getting stronger.

Now as I said, I'm really no expert on the subject, but to me that sounds like overtraining should just lead to a worse shape in general. Of course, if you aren't feeling good and go further into the red than you would like to every day, that might affect your recovery. However to me that still doesn't really explain how he was so much better on stage 9 than after suffering badly on stage 8.

 

[Gigs_98]

This year they should have done it, listen to what Bernal was saying or asking for, send him to Giro. They had to know, they had a bit of a hierarchy situation in their team. And at the end sending Bernal in a battle with JV, giving him a rather inexperienced team. Removing the experienced guys, to only put more weight on his shoulders.

In the end that was just not cool.

Oh c'mon, he is the defending Tour champion. If he is supposed to be oh so afraid of JV that he shouldn't even be there, then the whole peloton should have skipped the Tour. Also, it's not like JV is the problem. There are four more riders in front of him in the gc than there are JV riders in the Tour.
And calling his Tour team inexperienced is just disrespectful to that team. Van Baarle, Kwiat, Catroviejo and Rowe all have been part of previous Sky TdF winning squads, Amador and Carapaz haven't but they only joined the team this season and one of them is probably one of the most experienced gt riders in the whole peloton (he has ridden 15 gt's btw, and finished in the top 10 twice) while the other even is a gt winner. Literally the only inexperienced guy in that team is Sivakov and even he is already riding his 3rd gt and has finished one in the top 10 before.

 

[Red Rick]

Now this is some half knowledge I mostly picked up when a friend of mine wrote his highschool finals paper about overtraining in Triathlon, but iirc the problem with overtraining is that you basically don't give your body and your muscles the time to recover and actually build the strength. Like, usually it goes:

Training-->recovery-->during the recovery your body actually gets stronger-->more training-->...

Now if you skip the recovery part, or at least cut it short all you do during training is exhausting your body and destroying your muscles without them ever growing and getting stronger.

Now as I said, I'm really no expert on the subject, but to me that sounds like overtraining should just lead to a worse shape in general. Of course, if you aren't feeling good and go further into the red than you would like to every day, that might affect your recovery. However to me that still doesn't really explain how he was so much better on stage 9 than after suffering badly on stage 8.

It depends on the reason Bernal dropped like a stone on Sunday though. I don't really think he bonked in terms of going over his limit, so it might just be a back injury, which could also be due to overtraining. If he's struggling with his back on and off all race it makes a lot more sense IMO.

Someone who's suffering from real harsh overtraining in the classical sense be 3rd in GC before the GC IMO.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Ineos likely would have given the impression, being afraid, sending Bernal to Giro, that much is true. But was it worth it? Exposing Bernal in such way, basically throwing him to lions? At least what they should have done is to take Froome to the Tour and let him take the blame, (scape)goat. Froome is a big boy and would only take that as a motivation, for the next season.

Anyway, i don't plan to discuss this further, but in my book Ineos should have protected Bernal more, this season. You don't mess with your future in such way.

 

[Escarabajo]

He was not scheduled to go to the Giro!! there was no option there. None. Nada. Zipo. Nothing. He was always Ineos best option for the Tour. There wasn't even a remote chance of him going to the Giro.

 

[Jan the Man]

He was not scheduled to go to the Giro!! there was no option there. None. Nada. Zipo. Nothing. He was always Ineos best option for the Tour. There wasn't even a remote chance of him going to the Giro.

Agreed. He was always going to go to the Tour this year. I thought it was last year there was talk of him targeting the Giro (of course until his injury at which point he switched to the Tour).

Who knows why he isn't quite at the level. Sounds as if the back is still niggling him and whilst that probably doesn't explain the whole situation (he appears short of the level of previous years) it sure won't help getting the power out and would make it difficult to compete against the very best.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Would overtraining be an explanation for the weird inconsistency in his shape though? He looked horrible on the Peyresourde, suddenly was a lot better a day later, then looked horrible on the Pas de Peyrol again, before cracking to an extent that we haven't seen by a Tour favorite since what, Landis? Idk, but wouldn't overtraining just lead to a bad shape in general? To me that sounds more health related, but then I'm really no expert

Evenepoel thought it would be due to "not coming out of covid period optimally", but most likely due to overtraining. He followed Bernal's training rides on Strava, and comparing those to his schedule, he said Bernal had many long days, in such a way that he wondered if he wasn't overdoing it. He spoke of 7 to 8 hour training days in succession. It's in the Vive le Vélo episode of two days ago, but i suppose Bernal's Strava rides are open for everyone to see. Or maybe he's been a bit ill (dixit Evenepoel).
But then yesterday Lefevere said it would be a too simplistic explanation, and that he thinks -due to covid- a lot of riders are simply missing a solid foundation.

I donot think it was over training. For a millionaire and the most expensive team budget, pls dont tell me that a follow up of the training data cannot be done by the some of the top coaches in the world. Training plans and followups would have been scheduled easily once the TDF dates were fixed.
Most likely the back is a more serious issue which was aggravated due to bike style/ position during racing/training. But this being Ineos, is not likely to comeout

Maybe they gambled a bit too much, knew he was missing a part of the optimal foundation due to covid, and tried to compensate, but ended up overcompensating?

 

[Nacho23]

The permission given to the Colombian cyclist to ride outside was given after European cyclists were already riding in the streets. What Koronin said is nowhere near the truth.

 

[Escarabajo]

Evenepoel thought it would be due to "not coming out of covid period optimally", but most likely due to overtraining. He followed Bernal's training rides on Strava, and comparing those to his schedule, he said Bernal had many long days, in such a way that he wondered if he wasn't overdoing it. He spoke of 7 to 8 hour training days in succession. It's in the Vive le Vélo episode of two days ago, but i suppose Bernal's Strava rides are open for everyone to see. Or maybe he's been a bit ill (dixit Evenepoel).
But then yesterday Lefevere said it would be a too simplistic explanation, and that he thinks -due to covid- a lot of riders are simply missing a solid foundation.


Maybe they gambled a bit too much, knew he was missing a part of the optimal foundation due to covid, and tried to compensate, but ended up overcompensating?

But that's what some of the ex riders and coaches think. It is just not the over-training but the combination of lack of and abruptly overdoing it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

But that's what some of the ex riders and coaches think. It is just not the over-training but the combination of lack of and abruptly overdoing it.

Yes, that makes sense. Hence my post ;-)

 

[lenric]

Exactly. All in all not the best team management by Ineos, this year. Last minute changes, riders being told what to do. And no, this wasn't the only possible scenario. Could have been handled much more gracefully.

Side-effects of Portal's death.

 

[luckyboy]

Bernal saying to Dan Friebe that he still has back pain and now also knee pain as a result but still wants to continue lol

https://twitter.com/x/status/1305902247042310145

View: https://twitter.com/friebos/status/1305902247042310145

 

[luckyboy]

Just stupid to continue if he's in pain. His knee and back won't get better riding 5 hours every day.

 

[Scarponi]

Not the first defending champion to fall by the way side and won’t be the last

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

A year ago he was the future winner of 7 Tours. Eeven right before this Tour, most had him as clearly a step above Pogacar among young riders. Now...

If you're Brailsford, do you throw all your tricks at improving Simon Yates' TT ability and send him as your Tour leader rather than sticking with a climber who at least in part won the Tour due to a weak field and a shortened stage or reverting to a 35-year-old GT? Obviously, too early to say, and a lot can change, but it's a different world now than before.

Hoping Bernal figures this out and comes back to form ASAP. While I've never thought he was quite the world beater others did, he is all class.

 

[Red Rick]

A year ago he was the future winner of 7 Tours. Eeven right before this Tour, most had him as clearly a step above Pogacar among young riders. Now...

If you're Brailsford, do you throw all your tricks at improving Simon Yates' TT ability and send him as your Tour leader rather than sticking with a climber who at least in part won the Tour due to a weak field and a shortened stage or reverting to a 35-year-old GT? Obviously, too early to say, and a lot can change, but it's a different world now than before.

Hoping Bernal figures this out and comes back to form ASAP. While I've never thought he was quite the world beater others did, he is all class.

Ineos has signed Adam Yates, not Simon.

As for Bernal. If he remains in the race, I think that shows exceedingly poor judgment from the team as well as Bernal himself.

 

[Pricey_sky]

A year ago he was the future winner of 7 Tours. Eeven right before this Tour, most had him as clearly a step above Pogacar among young riders. Now...

If you're Brailsford, do you throw all your tricks at improving Simon Yates' TT ability and send him as your Tour leader rather than sticking with a climber who at least in part won the Tour due to a weak field and a shortened stage or reverting to a 35-year-old GT? Obviously, too early to say, and a lot can change, but it's a different world now than before.

Hoping Bernal figures this out and comes back to form ASAP. While I've never thought he was quite the world beater others did, he is all class.

It’s Adam that Ineos have signed, Simon has renewed with Mitchelton.

I wouldn’t write off Bernal based on this year, but clearly he’s going to have to better than last year to challenge Pog and Rog.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Ineos has signed Adam Yates, not Simon.

As for Bernal. If he remains in the race, I think that shows exceedingly poor judgment from the team as well as Bernal himself.

Oh...whoops. Did they mean to do that?

And I agree, there is literally nothing for Bernal to gain in this race except potential to really hurt himself. He will not compete in the high mountains due to his injury, and he will not compete on any other stage due to skill set. Rest up, consider Vuelta if recovered.

 

[Red Rick]

Oh...whoops. Did they mean to do that?

And I agree, there is literally nothing for Bernal to gain in this race except potential to really hurt himself. He will not compete in the high mountains due to his injury, and he will not compete on any other stage due to skill set. Rest up, consider Vuelta if recovered.

I would be very hesitant to send him to the Vuelta. Just rest up properly, and maybe do some other races to invest in the next year but no Grand Tours.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I would be very hesitant to send him to the Vuelta. Just rest up properly, and maybe do some other races to invest in the next year but no Grand Tours.

Agree, that's the smart move, but I imagine they're under some real pressure to produce something this season. In hindsight - and to be fair, this was less clear at the time - they have made a mess of the season:

Tour - put all their eggs in a basket with structural weaknesses (Bernal)
Giro - removed the defending champ who had built his season around defending his title from the race and wasted him in the Tour; instead sent GT who, in all fairness, should have a decent result, but who is a) not the defending Giro champ and b) a better domestique due to his ability to crank out steady watts and extensive experience
Vuelta - so far only announced Froome, as far as I know, who will produce no results, through no fault of anyone's; it just is what it is post-crash

So as it stands, their only legitimate hope is that a 35-year-old who was a domestique until 33 and just struggled hard in the Dauphine pulls out a victory in the Giro...

I actually think GT has very good odds of finishing on that podium, but still, I'm sure Brailsford will try to do something different with Bernal or Sivakov or Carapaz to try to get something...

 

[Red Rick]

Agree, that's the smart move, but I imagine they're under some real pressure to produce something this season. In hindsight - and to be fair, this was less clear at the time - they have made a mess of the season:

Tour - put all their eggs in a basket with structural weaknesses (Bernal)
Giro - removed the defending champ who had built his season around defending his title from the race and wasted him in the Tour and instead GT who, in all fairness, should have a decent result
Vuelta - so far only announced Froome, as far as I know, who will produce no results, through no fault of anyone's; it just is what it is post-crash

So as it stands, their only legitimate hope is that a 35-year-old who was a domestique until 33 and just struggled hard in the Dauphine pulls out a victory in the Giro...

I actually think GT has very good odds of finishing on that podium, but still, I'm sure Brailsford will try to do something different with Bernal or Sivakov or Carapaz to try to get something...

IMO send Sivakov/Carapaz to Vuelta and hope for miracle.

 

[roundabout]

So as it stands, their only legitimate hope is that a 35-year-old who was a domestique until 33 and just struggled hard in the Dauphine pulls out a victory in the Giro...

On behalf of all others born in '86 I would just like to say that we are not 35 yet.

 

[Forever The Best]

Thomas looked very solid in a variety of stages at Tirreno, so I don't see why he should not contend for a top 3 or even a win in Giro.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Thomas looked very solid in a variety of stages at Tirreno, so I don't see why he should not contend for a top 3 or even a win in Giro.

Totally agree, but when you have 3 Tour winners, a Giro winner, and a crazy talented youngster, you'd expect to not be relying on Geraint Thomas to save your season...though I'm inclined to believe he will.