The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

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Ninety5rpm

Ninety5rpm

Mar 18, 2009
1,913
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10,480
Thoughtforfood said:
There is a discussion of Mr Armstrong on the Criterium thread (actually, on hundreds of threads here) regarding his place in the pantheon of cycling's greatest riders. I will respond here because this thread should be patient zero. Infecting other threads with talk of him is really getting obnoxious, and every race thread that is about a race he will ride turns into a discussion of him. We are as bad as the commentators who drone on and on excessively whenever he is in a race, only we are giving the negative commentary. /rant

The discussion on the Criterium thread is whether his 7 Tour wins make him the or one of the greatest. To me, that is not the issue, and never really has been. I have poo pooed his accomplishment in the past, but in reality, from a strictly competitive standpoint, it is quite an impressive feat. Would it have been better for him to diversify? Well, his point was never to diversify. The Tour was the only cycling event most Americans knew of, and that was his audience. Those were the people who really gave him what he so desperately needed/needs, adulation and unquestioning loyalty.

No, the question is what type of sportsman he is/was. That is the tarnish on his trophies, the stain on his yellow jersey. His point is and has always been to win at all costs so that he receives the accolades awarded to the champion. He is myopically focused on his goal, and what he will receive from achieving that goal, and the rest is not important. Being a gracious winner, and more importantly loser never rates as significantly important. Humility and graciousness are what I consider important in my personal criteria for greatness. Those who win at all costs, the ball crushing juggernauts may win, but they are not an example of success. I believe his "win to get applause" attitude extends to his philanthropic endeavors as well. In his personal life, he has been anything but esteemable in his actions. In his retaliatory actions to those who have questioned him, he has shown himself to have little to no conscience or morals.

Mr Armstrong is not a man I would point to and tell my son and say "That is the type of person you need to be to be successful." I know that there are many in my country who hold up his example and unwavering commitment to winning as a blueprint for success. It is the shallowest of existences to compete for the spoils of victory only. To ignore the other aspects of human interaction and competition is to miss most of life. It is important to be a good person. It is important to treat others as you would have them treat you. It is important to be satisfied with your best regardless of where you end up in the standings. Mr Armstrong has none of those traits. His world is one of feeding an ego monster that can never be satisfied. I feel sad for those around him, especially his children. If the measure of the man is only his victories in sport, then Mr Armstrong has done well. If the measure of a man involves greater attributes, then Mr Armstrong is not an example of success in any way that I measure. But then again, that is just me.
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For crying out loud, he's a stupid jock. Is there any stupid jock you would point to and say to your son, "That is the type of person you need to be to be successful."? For your son's sake, I hope not.

Perspective, man. OJ Simpson turned out to be murdering lowlife scum. Still a great American football player.

The other little thing you failed to mention was overcoming cancer.
Armstrong's legacy and fame is inextricably linked with the undisputed fact that he contracted testicular cancer that spread to his brain, was given a slim chance to live, but managed to beat it, and then not only came back to professional bike racing, but raced and won at the highest levels, year after year. That simple story is inspiring regardless of his character or "what type of sportsman" he is. Who cares about that? :rolleyes:
 
Berzin

Berzin

Aug 6, 2009
2,111
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11,495
Mellow Velo said:
Don't know about gastroenteritis, more a case of criterium internationalitis, I suspect.
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I laughed out loud at this. Good one!!! Excellent use of sarcasm-I love it!!!

Ninety5rpm said:
Is there any stupid jock you would point to and say to your son, "That is the type of person you need to be to be successful."?
Click to expand...

Bill Bradley. Without a doubt.
 
Angliru

Angliru

Mar 10, 2009
9,245
23
17,530
SpeedWay said:
Unfortunately there is no Universal Sports on directv. I had the same dilemma and was able to plug the old analog antenna into the TV and pick it up on network TV first try. If you're reasonably close to the motor city you could try it also. I believe acquaintances told me they get it on WADL/38.2. Hope it works for you as the first day of Spring really does start on Saturday and you don't want to miss it.
Click to expand...

I was kind of hoping Universal Sports would somehow just magically appear with cycling coverage on directv like they did last year. Obviously they didn't get the numbers of viewers to support making it permanent and with Versus back on directv it's likely that chances of that happening are pretty slim.
I can get the Universal Sports signal on WADL but it comes and goes. Hopefully tomorrow will be one of the good reception days.
 
pedaling squares

pedaling squares

Jul 23, 2009
2,891
1
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Meh, this means nothing to me. I don't think that he was ever going to race, and he was never going to be a factor if he had raced. Good call by The Hog. This just means that we'll have more TV time dedicated to the riders who are actually going to do something in this race.
 
BroDeal

BroDeal

Mar 18, 2009
14,644
72
22,580
pedaling squares said:
Meh, this means nothing to me. I don't think that he was ever going to race, and he was never going to be a factor if he had raced. Good call by The Hog. This just means that we'll have more TV time dedicated to the riders who are actually going to do something in this race.
Click to expand...

When did Armstrong agree to be on Kornheiser's radio show? He must have known for at least a couple of days that he would not be in Italy the day before the race. I don't believe his excuse.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Ninety5rpm said:
For crying out loud, he's a stupid jock. Is there any stupid jock you would point to and say to your son, "That is the type of person you need to be to be successful."? For your son's sake, I hope not.

Perspective, man. OJ Simpson turned out to be murdering lowlife scum. Still a great American football player.

The other little thing you failed to mention was overcoming cancer.
Armstrong's legacy and fame is inextricably linked with the undisputed fact that he contracted testicular cancer that spread to his brain, was given a slim chance to live, but managed to beat it, and then not only came back to professional bike racing, but raced and won at the highest levels, year after year. That simple story is inspiring regardless of his character or "what type of sportsman" he is. Who cares about that? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Certainly there are people who play sports who's humility and work ethic are admirable and a good example of a person living their life in a good way. Lance is not one of them.

As to him "overcoming" cancer, I have know some really great people who didn't and they were far superior people to Armstrong. Surviving cancer has much less to do with the person with the cancer, and much more to do with the type of cancer and the treatment that person receives. His story doesn't inspire me. My friend David, he inspired me. My friend Steve, he inspired me. My friend Ish, he inspired me. They had cancer, but it was the content of their character that was inspirational, not their cancer. Armstrong is a douchebag who got lucky, and there are people like you think there is something admirable about that. Hey whatever floats your boat.
 
Polish

Polish

BANNED
Mar 11, 2009
3,853
1
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Squirts in March, Monkeys in July

C'mon, no reason to be a negative nellie

With the chance of Lance winning the TdF in July as probable as monkeys flying out his bum, a robust case of the squirts in March can only be seen as a step in the right direction. GO Monkeys GO!

Now I am a bit embarrassed to bring this up - but as a stickler for playing by the rules - a "DNS" is very different from a "DNF".

If The Hog would have predicted a DNS - THAT would have been notable.
But the fact remains that The Hog predicted a DNF - and that seems highly unlikely now.
 
C

Cerberus

Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
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Polish said:
C'mon, no reason to be a negative nellie

With the chance of Lance winning the TdF in July as probable as monkeys flying out his bum, a robust case of the squirts in March can only be seen as a step in the right direction. GO Monkeys GO!

Now I am a bit embarrassed to bring this up - but as a stickler for playing by the rules - a "DNS" is very different from a "DNF".

If The Hog would have predicted a DNS - THAT would have been notable.
But the fact remains that The Hog predicted a DNF - and that seems highly unlikely now.
Click to expand...
Ehh, no. The Hog predicted that Armstrong "won't finish MSR". If LA manages to finish MSR without starting it then the Hog will have been wrong, but that would take some doing now wouldn't it? No amount of cycling technicalities will change that.
 
Dr. Maserati

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
13,250
1
0
ridley said:
Maybe the close to 300km's was stressfull enogh to start a bout of gastro-entiritis ...
Click to expand...

I think when Contador announced his participation in Criterium International LA started comfort eating....

21enq79.jpg


...he is even wiping his *** while he is eating.
 
A

altark123

Aug 16, 2009
181
0
0
BroDeal said:
When did Armstrong agree to be on Kornheiser's radio show? He must have known for at least a couple of days that he would not be in Italy the day before the race. I don't believe his excuse.
Click to expand...

The whole Korheiser blow up, and subsequent discussion of appearance happened yesterday, and he was supposed to be on this morning. But he is in Europe, so it would've had to be via phone or camera or such.
 
C

cyclopeon

Feb 14, 2010
245
0
0
Thoughtforfood said:
No, the question is what type of sportsman he is/was. That is the tarnish on his trophies, the stain on his yellow jersey. His point is and has always been to win at all costs so that he receives the accolades awarded to the champion. He is myopically focused on his goal, and what he will receive from achieving that goal, and the rest is not important. Being a gracious winner, and more importantly loser never rates as significantly important. Humility and graciousness are what I consider important in my personal criteria for greatness. Those who win at all costs, the ball crushing juggernauts may win, but they are not an example of success. I believe his "win to get applause" attitude extends to his philanthropic endeavors as well. In his personal life, he has been anything but esteemable in his actions. In his retaliatory actions to those who have questioned him, he has shown himself to have little to no conscience or morals.

Mr Armstrong is not a man I would point to and tell my son and say "That is the type of person you need to be to be successful." I know that there are many in my country who hold up his example and unwavering commitment to winning as a blueprint for success. It is the shallowest of existences to compete for the spoils of victory only. To ignore the other aspects of human interaction and competition is to miss most of life. It is important to be a good person. It is important to treat others as you would have them treat you. It is important to be satisfied with your best regardless of where you end up in the standings. Mr Armstrong has none of those traits. His world is one of feeding an ego monster that can never be satisfied. I feel sad for those around him, especially his children. If the measure of the man is only his victories in sport, then Mr Armstrong has done well. If the measure of a man involves greater attributes, then Mr Armstrong is not an example of success in any way that I measure. But then again, that is just me.
Click to expand...

OMG, I agree wit you! Well said. 100%!
 
cotterpin

cotterpin

Dec 24, 2009
60
0
0
+1
Well said; I believe that sums it up for many posters,and is incomprehensible to others; by choice or by ability we may never know.:D
 
B

Bike Rider

BANNED
Mar 17, 2010
31
0
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Polish said:
Now I am a bit embarrassed to bring this up - but as a stickler for playing by the rules - a "DNS" is very different from a "DNF".

If The Hog would have predicted a DNS - THAT would have been notable.
But the fact remains that The Hog predicted a DNF - and that seems highly unlikely now.
Click to expand...

Nevertheless it was a marvellous stroke of luck by the hog that LA got a bug. But what I don't get is, why did he predict he would not finish in the first place? I'm not understanding that bit? I can't understand why LA would not bother to finish a race at this time of the year - he needs as much racing time as possible.

Thanks for the little history lesson, btw. I appreciated that.
 
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