The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[Mellow Velo]

Thank you, that was a great response! I'm tired of not having an educated opinion on this matter so I'm digging my way to the bottom of this case (or at least digging into whatever I can find on the net).
Unfortunately being in the middle of this research process, I find my self unable to respond thoroughly to your post.
This is what I got so far:

1. I haven't found anything suggesting Horner did get paid. A little help here would be appreciated


My only objective is to put these speculation under a fair amount of scrutiny. In that they I think it will be easier to determine, whether or not there is some truth to it.

Lets see if I can help you out over the Chris Horner situation, at least:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2009...n-astana-kit-despite-the-financial-woes_91702
Astana’s Chris Horner told VeloNews last month that he has always received his monthly paychecks from the team.

“.”If the check comes, I am happy – but I know if Alberto (Contador) didn’t get paid, he would have a new contract tomorrow – I’m sure Levi (Leipheimer) could find a job whenever he needed to. I would assume all the big guys are being paid,” Horner said. “I’m always working with the team, while having financial issues in the back of my mind, but so far I’m being paid, and being paid pretty well."
(as Bianchigirl has already quoted, from May 7th)

Yet, on May 15th, he took part in this:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2009/05/15/astana-cycling-team-covers-sponsors-name-in-protest/

Here's what he has to say, come early June:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/06/news/horner-healing-hopeful-for-tour_93006

“About five days before the end of May we were two months behind. A check arrived and covered one of the months, so we were paid, but five days later, on the first of June, we were two months behind again,” Horner said. “I also haven’t received any prize money from last year.”

Do these two comments add up? I'm not sure. He must have been in arrears in April, if his early June comment is correct and given the May 15th protest. Yet, he told Velonews that month, he'd been paid.

I can't find the actual quote, but I'm pretty sure that it was Horner who said that the Spanish riders had been paid.
The search is on........

 

[thehog]

Lets see if I can help you out over the Chris Horner situation, at least:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2009...n-astana-kit-despite-the-financial-woes_91702
Astana’s Chris Horner told VeloNews last month that he has always received his monthly paychecks from the team.

“.”If the check comes, I am happy – but I know if Alberto (Contador) didn’t get paid, he would have a new contract tomorrow – I’m sure Levi (Leipheimer) could find a job whenever he needed to. I would assume all the big guys are being paid,” Horner said. “I’m always working with the team, while having financial issues in the back of my mind, but so far I’m being paid, and being paid pretty well."
(as Bianchigirl has already quoted, from May 7th)

Yet, on May 15th, he took part in this:
http://www.bikerumor.com/2009/05/15/astana-cycling-team-covers-sponsors-name-in-protest/

Here's what he has to say, come early June:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/06/news/horner-healing-hopeful-for-tour_93006

“About five days before the end of May we were two months behind. A check arrived and covered one of the months, so we were paid, but five days later, on the first of June, we were two months behind again,” Horner said. “I also haven’t received any prize money from last year.”

Do these two comments add up? I'm not sure. He must have been in arrears in April, if his early June comment is correct and given the May 15th protest. Yet, he told Velonews that month, he'd been paid.

I can't find the actual quote, but I'm pretty sure that it was Horner who said that the Spanish riders had been paid.
The search is on........

“That’s just an excuse (Bruyneel) used to leave for the other team. He used my name, my image. He had one more year of contract with the team and the Kazakhs had no problem that he could continue,” he said. “Why shouldn’t I be able to come back to the team that was in part created for me? Why didn’t Johan want me? I didn’t choose this road, but I never understood why Lance could race at Astana and not me.”

 

[bianchigirl]

Bruyneel really was the architect of his own woes:

Recent news from the Court of Arbitration of Sport (CAS) added to Astana's financial difficulties. The Court ruled that Bruyneel's company, Olympus sarl, must pay former rider Vladimir Gusev 654,166.67 euros for irregular dismissal. The company is also expected to pay the Gusev 5% interest since November 27, 2008 and 25,000 Swiss francs for his legal expenses, in addition to 75% of the cost of the CAS procedure.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vino-astana-is-my-baby-im-back

 

[Carboncrank]

2009/09 TDU - 4million total
2009 Giro - 2 million
2009 ToC - 3 million
2009 ToI - 3 million
= 12 million in 18 months - not bad.

1.. where did you get those numbers?

2... are you under the impression other riders don't get appearance money?

 

[Big GMaC]

1.. where did you get those numbers?

2... are you under the impression other riders don't get appearance money?

1. Hmmm.... probably the news reports and coverage of each event. Go on, use the internet to find them. I don't have enough time to make an infomercial in the manner of dimspace so you will just have to trust me.

a. type in www.google.com <--- i have included a link for you.

b. type in the search box: 'Lance Armstrong appearance fees'

c. hit enter.

d. feast on the cornucopia of Lance related articles.

e. pleasure youself to them. [This probably doesn't need saying, you almost certainly need no instruction to...]

f. cancel your account here, go to http://www.livestrong.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=24 and sing to your hearts content about Uniball.

2. Some may get appearance fees, post tour crits etc.

NONE this high

NO ONE ELSE demands such a great appearance fee that a race has to be shorten by 3 days, then doesn't bother to finish...

 

[Polish]

NO ONE ELSE demands such a great appearance fee that a race has to be shorten by 3 days, then doesn't bother to finish...

No one else COULD demand that - and get it.
Lance is a bit special yep yep yep.


Lance is in a SuperBowl Commercial on Sunday BTW.
Taco Bell or Michelob Ultra I believe.

 

[Carboncrank]

“About five days before the end of May we were two months behind. A check arrived and covered one of the months, so we were paid, but five days later, on the first of June, we were two months behind again,” Horner said. “I also haven’t received any prize money from last year.”

Do these two comments add up? I'm not sure. He must have been in arrears in April, if his early June comment is correct and given the May 15th protest. Yet, he told Velonews that month, he'd been paid.

I can't find the actual quote, but I'm pretty sure that it was Horner who said that the Spanish riders had been paid.
The search is on........

What he said about being paid late is conformation of what I was saying about the funds in the bank guarantee being used to pay salaries. It's what it's there for. There's a one mouth delay.

I'll post yet again the actual UCI regulations.

http://www.uciprotour.com/Modules/B...&ObjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=34028&LangId=1

2.15.105

2.15.106

You're quibbling over details of a situation that was clearly true.

 

[Digger]

No one else COULD demand that - and get it.
Lance is a bit special yep yep yep.


Lance is in a SuperBowl Commercial on Sunday BTW.
Taco Bell or Michelob Ultra I believe.

Raising cancer awareness in Taco Bell's. What a guy.

 

[Big GMaC]

Raising cancer awareness in Taco Bell's. What a guy.

Actually due to the time difference I shall be watching the Superbowl over breakfast. I had hoped of getting through my Wheeties without punching a hole in my T.V screen...

Oh well...

 

[Anonymous]

1.. where did you get those numbers?

2... are you under the impression other riders don't get appearance money?

yeah...some guys get post tour crit fees in Belgium or France or Holland...they usually charge money to go see these things...so a rider who won the green jersey might get something like 5 grand and others will get something like 500 bucks or so...but be serious, three million dollars for showing up to an ACTUAL race like the Tour of Ireland is silly money...and they pay the *** so much they have to cut the race from 5 to 3 days? THIS sorta stuff is why real racing fans are bugged by egostrong...Merckx never got paid for showing up to a real race...you make it sound like everyone does this....so get it straight....and for your information, post tour crits are just for entertainment and why the guys get paid a little is that they charge folks to get in...they are fake show races...kinda like fake wrestling...

 

[Polish]

Raising cancer awareness in Taco Bell's. What a guy.

Raising Cancer Awareness in Michelob Ultra...

Greg did the Taco Bell ooops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oon45kkLzsQ

Lance does the Michelob:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-MWN-XUtEQ

 

[Big GMaC]

kinda like fake wrestling...

Shhhhhhhhhh..... Don't let Crank hear you say that! he probably loves that stuff!

 

[Carboncrank]

Bruyneel really was the architect of his own woes:

Recent news from the Court of Arbitration of Sport (CAS) added to Astana's financial difficulties. The Court ruled that Bruyneel's company, Olympus sarl, must pay former rider Vladimir Gusev 654,166.67 euros for irregular dismissal. The company is also expected to pay the Gusev 5% interest since November 27, 2008 and 25,000 Swiss francs for his legal expenses, in addition to 75% of the cost of the CAS procedure.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vino-astana-is-my-baby-im-back

It seem hypocritical to me that you, and others here, that go on an on about continued doping in the sport, would criticize a DS who holds his riders to a higher standard than UCI.

Of course, none of this has the slightest thing to do with the bank guarantee issue so I'm wondering what woes you'd be talking about.

I question the message this sends other teams that are trying run their own programs to catch cheats themselves instead of waiting on the UCI.

 

[BYOP88]

It seem hypocritical to me that you, and others here, that go on an on about continued doping in the sport, would criticize a DS who holds his riders to a higher standard than UCI.

Of course, none of this has the slightest thing to do with the bank guarantee issue so I'm wondering what woes you'd be talking about.

I question the message this sends other teams that are trying run their own programs to catch cheats themselves instead of waiting on the UCI.

Can I just ask, do you get paid per post, per hour or per diem?

 

[pmcg76]

I actually dont have a problem with riders getting appearence fees and I am sure many riders get paid to show up at smaller races, I know teams are taken care of at races.

However when a race is shortened because of an appearence fee being paid to one rider, (could be any rider Contador for example), I would not be happy. This applies to any event, not just cycling.

There was some sort of global cancer summit in Dublin at the same time the race in Ireland took place, Lance was a speaker at that summit. No problem with that at all. I dont know if that was why Lance was in Ireland or for the race or if they were somehow connected.

If he was there for the summit, would it have been so difficult to have raced without an appearence fee if the aim was to spread the message of cancer awareness.

On the other hand, if the summit was tied in with racing in Ireland, does that mean Lance took a fee to come to Ireland to race and speak at the summit.

A big deal was made about Lance riding for free and not taking a wage at Astana and how the comeback was all about raising cancer awareness. Very noble.

The guy is a super-millionaire who will have endorsements for the rest of his life. The fact that he was taking appearence fees kinda flies in the face of his stated aim to promote cancer awareness, it sullies the message. To take fees at the expense of a race is even worse. You have to ask was Lance interested in promoting cancer, cycling or just lining his pockets even more.

There were Lance posters being given out at the Tour of Ireland with the message 'Hope has returned' on them, but it was funny because 'the Hope' never even made it as far as the bottom of the Hill where everyone was waiting.

 

[Carboncrank]

I actually dont have a problem with riders getting appearence fees and I am sure many riders get paid to show up at smaller races, I know teams are taken care of at races.

However when a race is shortened because of an appearence fee being paid to one rider, (could be any rider Contador for example), I would not be happy. This applies to any event, not just cycling.

The gang here evidently thinks they took the money they would have spent on a longer race and gave it to Lance. That perfectly fits the all things that happen must be related and it must be Lance's and or Johann's evil doing.

With the world in a financial crisis, and KCF having trouble coming up with sponsor money, you choose to not believe the reasons given for why the race was shortened and subsitute another secret conspiracy based on all things Lance must be wrong.

I"m not comfortable with the idea he'd take a huge guarantee in that cicimstance either but, 1) I'd like to see some verification of what they paid him. and 2) Nobody was holding a gun to their head. They had their reasons for wanting him there and all this looks like little more than the typical second guessing of every single thing that involves him.

 

[pmcg76]

The gang here evidently thinks they took the money they would have spent on a longer race and gave it to Lance. That perfectly fits the all things that happen must be related and it must be Lance's and or Johann's evil doing.

With the world in a financial crisis, and KCF having trouble coming up with sponsor money, you choose to not believe the reasons given for why the race was shortened and subsitute another secret conspiracy based on all things Lance must be wrong.

I"m not comfortable with the idea he'd take a huge guarantee in that cicimstance either but, 1) I'd like to see some verification of what they paid him. and 2) Nobody was holding a gun to their head. They had their reasons for wanting him there and all this looks like little more than the typical second guessing of every single thing that involves him.

No, race director admitted that they paid Armstrong a hefty appearence fee. We all went along with the hard-times facade but no sponsors backed out or no reductions were ever announced, they only announced the race was to be shortened after they confirmed Lance's appearence. Straight after the race, they announced the race would be 5 days again next year which suggests they know something about the Irish economy we dont.

CycleSport magazine November "McQuaid had secured Armstrong's presence by convincing the Irish Touristboard to back the race....... McQuaid admitted it had cost him the equivilant of many thousands of pints of Guinness but was worth it"

So they actually got an extra sponsor on board but still had to cut the race by 2 days, make sense to you. McQuaid says it was worth it, well if cutting your race by 2 days to get one rider who then doesnt finish is 'worth it', it just shows where cycling is going.

 

[zapata]

So they actually got an extra sponsor on board but still had to cut the race by 2 days, make sense to you. McQuaid says it was worth it, well if cutting your race by 2 days to get one rider who then doesnt finish is 'worth it', it just shows where cycling is going.

Is this for real!? I remember being surprised that it was cut to three days, and I was not the only one. If that was Armstrongs doing, and he then decides that he can't be bothered riding up the one proper hill in the race..I'm speechless.

 

[pmcg76]

Is this for real!? I remember being surprised that it was cut to three days, and I was not the only one. If that was Armstrongs doing, and he then decides that he can't be bothered riding up the one proper hill in the race..I'm speechless.

What do you think, the Irish Tourist board probably saw the possible increased marketability with Lance but probably were unable to commit the finances to pay for Lance's appearence fee so they probably decided the only way to pay for Lance was to cut 2 days of the race. That was the trade off. As usual business won out over ethics.

Of course they could never come out and say this to the media, everything negative in Ireland these days is blamed on the economic downturn so they had the perfect made excuse all ready to hide behind. The race organisers admitted they paid big buck's for Lance. What more is there to discuss.

 

[zapata]

What do you think, the Irish Tourist board probably saw the possible increased marketability with Lance but probably were unable to commit the finances to pay for Lance's appearence fee so they probably decided the only way to pay for Lance was to cut 2 days of the race. That was the trade off. As usual business won out over ethics.

Of course they could never come out and say this to the media, everything negative in Ireland these days is blamed on the economic downturn so they had the perfect made excuse all ready to hide behind. The race organisers admitted they paid big buck's for Lance. What more is there to discuss.

I don't doubt that you're right, it's just absurd to think that this should be the reality. At least he could have had the decency to go up St Patricks Hill, even though it was raining.

 

[pmcg76]

I don't doubt that you're right, it's just absurd to think that this should be the reality. At least he could have had the decency to go up St Patricks Hill, even though it was raining.

I was one of the people on the Hill in the rain, not to see Lance but because I was there in 08 and it had been great. There were quite a few people on the hill who were just there to see Lance and once he didnt show, they ****ed of home altough couldnt blame them in that weather.

They were originally supposed to do three circuits but it was cut to 2 due to conditions, even if Lance had made it up the hill once and then climbed of, the people there to see him would have been happy. The biggest cheer was reserved for a Rwandan guy who was dead last and so far behind everyone else. I would imagine being cheered up St.Patricks hill might have been the highlight of his career.

 

[zapata]

I was one of the people on the Hill in the rain, not to see Lance but because I was there in 08 and it had been great. There were quite a few people on the hill who were just there to see Lance and once he didnt show, they ****ed of home altough couldnt blame them in that weather.

They were originally supposed to do three circuits but it was cut to 2 due to conditions, even if Lance had made it up the hill once and then climbed of, the people there to see him would have been happy. The biggest cheer was reserved for a Rwandan guy who was dead last and so far behind everyone else. I would imagine being cheered up St.Patricks hill might have been the highlight of his career.

Being norwegian, I have to say Cavendish and Armstrong dropping out was rather overshadowed by Lars Petter Nordhaug winning the stage..hope it's a good race again this year, without the drama of Armstrong!

 

[pmcg76]

Being norwegian, I have to say Cavendish and Armstrong dropping out was rather overshadowed by Lars Petter Nordhaug winning the stage..hope it's a good race again this year, without the drama of Armstrong!

Agreed on this year & Nordhaug, that was a good result for Nordhaug, secured him his spot at Sky I would imagine. Joker-Bianchi (and was it Maxbo before that) have been regular visitors to Ireland for the Tour of Ireland and the Ras down the years. Always great to see the small team's put the big names to shame.

Oh yeah, I forgot, the only pro cyclist whom I have seen post on this forum was Marco Pinotti who came on to thank the people who stood and cheered them on St.Patricks Hill in the rain. Class.

 

[buckwheat]

Funny Armstrong News.

From Pharmstrong's twitter

lancearmstrong I won't be forgetting this comment anytime soon. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7017121.ece #whatatool

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7017121.ece

Vaughters thinks Wiggins has further potential, even if it may not be realised in 2010. “The 2009 Tour route was suited to Brad, but 2010 is less so,” he said. “In 2009, the tactics worked in his favour and Astana were soft-pedalling a bit to not embarrass Lance [Armstrong]. And Brad is very good at a flat stage that has a big hill at the finish and we saw a lot of that in 2009.”

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

From Pharmstrong's twitter

lancearmstrong I won't be forgetting this comment anytime soon. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7017121.ece #whatatool

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/cycling/article7017121.ece

Vaughters thinks Wiggins has further potential, even if it may not be realised in 2010. “The 2009 Tour route was suited to Brad, but 2010 is less so,” he said. “In 2009, the tactics worked in his favour and Astana were soft-pedalling a bit to not embarrass Lance [Armstrong]. And Brad is very good at a flat stage that has a big hill at the finish and we saw a lot of that in 2009.”

Oh, he's (LA) so scary. LOL! Now, Vaughters will have to watch his back wherever he goes and he won't be able to sleep at night, because of Pharmastrong's pseudo-threat. LOL !!