The Official Lance Hating Thread

[franciep10]

PMCG76 - if you'll allow me to add a Case Study of the USA:

With modest interest in George Mount's TV exposure in the 1976 Olympics, a great little move (Breaking Away), a fairly large underground of cyclists grew a little and when Greg Lemond starting winning everything as a junior including the Jr. World's, the Red Zinger, then Coors' Classic was formed with great success. After Greg was shot, Team 7-11 couldn't quite pick up the slack, and in 1988 the greatest bike race in US history folded.

A year later, with Greg coming back, the Tour de Trump debuted. It grew a great deal in the next few years awith Greg winning the Tour and World's again, and became the Tour du Pont. Then with Lance coming into view (and winning it). John DuPont's murder trial, and Lance's inability to match Lemond's success (then getting cancer) helped doom the Tour Du Pont. Other rides in that time, and teams in the US grew and faded. The Coors' Light team, Wheates, Crest. The ABC Classic, the Tour of the Americas, etc. Greg did have a big impact, but it's hard to say how much.

With Lance's return to greatness, it really took a while for racing to really take off. The Tour of Georgia got going in 2003, the Tour of California in 2006. The proposed Tour of Texas never really came off, nor did the overzealous Tour of America. But even after Lance retired, the numbers for cycling in the ToG and ToC didn't decline that great. Even after Lance announced his comeback, the ToG couldn't manage to pull together the funds to continue their race, even as a non Pro Continental race. Though they say they'll be back next year.

In retrospect, having lived through all of this, It's my opinion that cycling really isn't that much bigger in the US as far as racing goes, than it was in going back to the late 1980's. Greg says back in the late 70's there was actually a large underground of some very serious and talented racers: Mount, Bob Cook, Leonard Zinn, Jack Janelle, etc. even before he got there. There are however more recreational cyclists from what I can tell. People that will ride their bikes for commuting, to keep in shape, or even on club rides. That has definitely grown. But it's hard to know if that is due to Lance, or what percentage of it would be.

Finally, IMO, doping, and the general acceptance among even rec riders these days that Lance doped, is what has hurt the sport most, by far, even in this country. And as I see it, Lance is not the person who is going to dig us out of that, no matter what he says or does at this point. The ToC may hold well, and the ToG may come back. But the next racing boom in this country will likely come in 5-10 years when the next phenom comes along, has great results, and is media savvy.

I agree with you Greg Lemond did so much for cycling, after watching the tour in 1989 I worked alot in cycling as I was a triathlete and that's how I got into the cycling. But in 1999 when I stop riding and I was watching the tour and Lance won I said to myself that this guy came back from cancer and reach the pinnacle of this sport and I'm not riding because I have a busted knee so I started cycling again, now deep down I think that the reason we dislike LA is that he made us feel so inspired and so good about Cycling and then crushed all those good feelings, and I have been thinking to myself how can I like Astana but then detest Lance and that's why we forgive ullrich, Pantani, Indurain, Basso and all the other dopers but still hate him because we thought that he would be different. that's my thoughts

 

[pmcg76]

Yeah, SF was a great race, went to it twice 02 & 04. Charles Dionne won both times, think I was his lucky charm. Was on Taylor St both times and the crowds were amazing, matched anything I have seen in Europe. Was sad when it stopped.

In fairness, this was a race that was created on the back of the Lance phenomenon, I think it was T.Wiesel and his crew that pulled it together.

Likewise, Philly was also huge but Lance never raced in his golden period, so glad to hear that it survived this year.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

I like where this is going

Guys,
Thanks for your latest postings. I am glad that someone can put this in some sort of pseudo factual manner.
I agree with you there when you say that there maybe a grater participation of people in the amateur ranks and clubs in the us. In Northern California, the amateur racing scene is quite impressive. Local road races and criteriums will be sold out sometimes in hours, the rule of thumb is a week or so. These races fill up probably a month or so in advance prior to the race day.
I have been racing for about 4 years, and the interest for racing is there with or without Lance.
But who cares, lance is a douche

 

[BikeCentric]

now deep down I think that the reason we dislike LA is that he made us feel so inspired and so good about Cycling and then crushed all those good feelings

That's exactly it for me, you've hit on it perfectly. Lance inspired me to start racing - I thought "what an amazing story and what an amazing sport - I want to race." Then the day I truly began to hate him was when he gave that bull**** speech on the Champs Elysees when he said "I feel sorry for all you cynics that just can't believe in miracles." And this was when all of the big names were being thrown out of the sport for doping and riders were getting busted left and right. Lance was just spitting in our faces and insulting our intelligence with that stupid speech. What an *** he is. "I'm so sorry you can't believe" while Basso Ulrich Hamilton et all are dropping like flies from positive tests. Screw you Armstrong I can't wait to see you get dropped in Italy next week in the mountains you POS.

 

[BikeCentric]

Yeah, SF was a great race, went to it twice 02 & 04. Charles Dionne won both times, think I was his lucky charm. Was on Taylor St both times and the crowds were amazing, matched anything I have seen in Europe. Was sad when it stopped.

That's funny I was there on Taylor street every year as well. Great hill to watch on.

 

[BikeCentric]

That's funny I was there on Taylor street every year as well. Great hill to watch on.

And Taylor street hill was where Dionne launched the winning attack in '04, just remembered that - he took off like a rocket! The entire crowd on the street was like "wooooaaahhhh!!"

 

[Condorman]

Lance and his women

@Juan Pelota

'He's banged some of the best looking woman in Hollywood.'

Not all of her?

Eric Clapton got to Sheryl Crow before Armstrong.

Clapton is God (I don't agree but it's written on a wall in London and many people believe it).

Incest too!

 

[Dr. Wattini]

you think the olson twins are good looking? give me a break bro

 

[Condorman]

you think the olson twins are good looking? give me a break bro

I was quoting an earlier poster.

 

[BroDeal]

PMCG76 - if you'll allow me to add a Case Study of the USA:

With modest interest in George Mount's TV exposure in the 1976 Olympics, a great little move (Breaking Away), a fairly large underground of cyclists grew a little and when Greg Lemond starting winning everything as a junior including the Jr. World's, the Red Zinger, then Coors' Classic was formed with great success. After Greg was shot, Team 7-11 couldn't quite pick up the slack, and in 1988 the greatest bike race in US history folded.

A year later, with Greg coming back, the Tour de Trump debuted. It grew a great deal in the next few years awith Greg winning the Tour and World's again, and became the Tour du Pont. Then with Lance coming into view (and winning it). John DuPont's murder trial, and Lance's inability to match Lemond's success (then getting cancer) helped doom the Tour Du Pont. Other rides in that time, and teams in the US grew and faded. The Coors' Light team, Wheates, Crest. The ABC Classic, the Tour of the Americas, etc. Greg did have a big impact, but it's hard to say how much.

With Lance's return to greatness, it really took a while for racing to really take off. The Tour of Georgia got going in 2003, the Tour of California in 2006. The proposed Tour of Texas never really came off, nor did the overzealous Tour of America. But even after Lance retired, the numbers for cycling in the ToG and ToC didn't decline that great. Even after Lance announced his comeback, the ToG couldn't manage to pull together the funds to continue their race, even as a non Pro Continental race. Though they say they'll be back next year.

In retrospect, having lived through all of this, It's my opinion that cycling really isn't that much bigger in the US as far as racing goes, than it was in going back to the late 1980's. Greg says back in the late 70's there was actually a large underground of some very serious and talented racers: Mount, Bob Cook, Leonard Zinn, Jack Janelle, etc. even before he got there. There are however more recreational cyclists from what I can tell. People that will ride their bikes for commuting, to keep in shape, or even on club rides. That has definitely grown. But it's hard to know if that is due to Lance, or what percentage of it would be.

Finally, IMO, doping, and the general acceptance among even rec riders these days that Lance doped, is what has hurt the sport most, by far, even in this country. And as I see it, Lance is not the person who is going to dig us out of that, no matter what he says or does at this point. The ToC may hold well, and the ToG may come back. But the next racing boom in this country will likely come in 5-10 years when the next phenom comes along, has great results, and is media savvy.

Good summary, Alpe.

I tend to think the growth of recreational cycling in the U.S. does not have much to do with Armstrong. It is more due to a fitness fad much like aerobics in the 80s. Cycling has become the new golf amongst certain segments of middle and upper middle class. A big influence has been the MS150 targeting corporations. I bump into lots of people who got into cycling because they were talked into participating in their office's MS150 team. Spin classes are another influence. A low impact sport was needed after aerobics died down. Also mountain biking ran its course when people figured out that it is a lot harder than it looks in a Mountain Dew commercial. Travelling to a trailhead is a pain in the **** for most people compared to riding a road bike right from your front door.

Some of this discussion is worthy of its own thread.

EDIT: Jeebus. You cannot use the word b-utt here. Freakin' ridiculous.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

Some of this discussion is worthy of its own thread.

EDIT: Jeebus. You cannot use the word b-utt here. Freakin' ridiculous.

I agree, new thread
but lets continue to share our "LA hate"

 

[marinoni]

That's exactly it for me, you've hit on it perfectly. Lance inspired me to start racing - I thought "what an amazing story and what an amazing sport - I want to race." Then the day I truly began to hate him was when he gave that bull**** speech on the Champs Elysees when he said "I feel sorry for all you cynics that just can't believe in miracles." And this was when all of the big names were being thrown out of the sport for doping and riders were getting busted left and right. Lance was just spitting in our faces and insulting our intelligence with that stupid speech. What an *** he is. "I'm so sorry you can't believe" while Basso Ulrich Hamilton et all are dropping like flies from positive tests. Screw you Armstrong I can't wait to see you get dropped in Italy next week in the mountains you POS.

Good post. I think you'll find a lot of LA-haters out there started on his side. How could you not have been inspired by his story? But yeah, between the doping evidence and the gradual realization that he is just a monumental *** changed my and a lot of other peoples opinion. I'm glad to see someone else was as disgusted by that speech of his in 05. I was just speechless. Final thing about your last point- what mountains?

 

[marinoni]

One last thing- what kind of ****head needs pacers for a marathon?

 

[pmcg76]

Good post. I think you'll find a lot of LA-haters out there started on his side.

Agreed, I would have been a Lance fan from about 91, when he was an amateur up until he got cancer. He was one of the few English speaking riders coming through who looked like they were gonna be big stars. He never seemed popular with his fellow pros even then, still it was like growing up with the guy.

I was delighted when he won the Tour in 99 if not a little puzzled by his huge improvement since pre cancer. He got the benefit of the doubt from me for a few years, Christ I even bought a Trek bike and US Postal top when I lived in the US 01-02, seen him race in SF.

The Ferrari connection definitely caused the suspicion level to rise, then the allegations by D.Walsh, his arroganace, the boring domination of Tours, the Postal robots, other riders getting busted around him, but the incident which finally put me in the anti-Lance camp was the Simoeni affair, for me that was wrong on so many level and some of the things he said afterward finally made he realise he definitely wasnt against doping so if he werent anti-doping, then....

Delighted when he retired, devastated when he announced his return, the fact that he has kept to none of the promises he made about changing make he like him less & less. Sill, I dont think I hate him the way a lot of people on here do, no nicknames or sledging from me, I try to give respect on some level.

 

[Dr. Wattini]

Dude,
the boring domination on the ToF indeed. Screw that brother.

 

[marinoni]

The official lance loving thread

Wow, those millions of fans are really burnin up the bandwidth over on the other thread. Seven posts and six of them are slagging him. Where are you Mary-Kate and Ashley?

 

[slowoldman]

One last thing- what kind of ****head needs pacers for a marathon?

Quite a few people get "paced" by their friends or training partners that are faster than them for a marathon, especially if they are after a personal best.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Wow, some great posts, saying exactly what I think. Marioni and PCMG76 really said it all.

The biggest thing that currently bothers me is that his coming back takes us back to a time when criticizing doping controls is accepted, and diminishing cleaning the sport is the norm, and doping treated like it's a minor problem that can mostly be dismissed.

As we all know, doping is the biggest problem in our sport, and nothing Lance really could say or do at this point - other than finally getting caught and confessing - can possibly change that.

 

[khardung la]

I am making an effort to analyze why I dislike Armstrong without going to doping issues .

I guess the main reasons are three (I find many more though):

1-He has merchantilized this very special sport (I hope not forever) more than anyone else, focusing in marketing, media, primadonismo, bullying others and promoting gossip. I believe that in Europe we accept that kind of behaviour in footbal (soccer), formula 1, tennis etc...but cycling for many of us should still be that sport where men face tremendous difficulties in a humble way, suffer like the hell "in silence", live trully a private life, and hell, they just ride their bikes and contribute to the epic and a long tradition of stories to comment with friends and children.

2-He has absolutely focused in one race, which is also unprecedented and quite dissapointing in a champion. It looks that for many people, specially in North America, cycling equals TdF. That is an empoverishing thing that I dislike.

3-He is, compared to other multiple champions, way less classy. I personally liked the Indurain, Zabel or Jalabert type: humble, accesible, out of the media circus, respectful. Even other champions that were more egocentric had plenty of class or that "something" that made them simpathic to my eyes, such as Cipollini or Pantani.

Armstong is the opposite to them. He is a moving circus and a bussiness company at the same time, a guy that looks like the godfather and is capable of being the master of puppets of the whole thing: races, sponsors, teams, journalists and even the future of other cyclists. His mouth is always too big, and his interests are many times spurious. When he feels attacked he refuges in cancer issues.

What he did for cancer victims was to win a Tour de France (then more), showing that some people survive with good doctors and effort. That is all.

Apart from that he is proven doper , and his comeback is quite a pathetic thing. I still cannot say if he is in the level, if he is doping right now...His pretended proves have gone with the wind, let´s see if in Italy we get a picture of what is going on.

 

[franciep10]

Agreed, I would have been a Lance fan from about 91, when he was an amateur up until he got cancer. He was one of the few English speaking riders coming through who looked like they were gonna be big stars. He never seemed popular with his fellow pros even then, still it was like growing up with the guy.

I was delighted when he won the Tour in 99 if not a little puzzled by his huge improvement since pre cancer. He got the benefit of the doubt from me for a few years, Christ I even bought a Trek bike and US Postal top when I lived in the US 01-02, seen him race in SF.

The Ferrari connection definitely caused the suspicion level to rise, then the allegations by D.Walsh, his arroganace, the boring domination of Tours, the Postal robots, other riders getting busted around him, but the incident which finally put me in the anti-Lance camp was the Simoeni affair, for me that was wrong on so many level and some of the things he said afterward finally made he realise he definitely wasnt against doping so if he werent anti-doping, then....

Delighted when he retired, devastated when he announced his return, the fact that he has kept to none of the promises he made about changing make he like him less & less. Sill, I dont think I hate him the way a lot of people on here do, no nicknames or sledging from me, I try to give respect on some level.

I think what sold it for me that he wasn't natural was the 2000 tour he was riding away from Pantani, Vireneque and escartin on hautacam after that I knew, I rode with him in the 1991 amateur championship and he was great but not that good

 

[marinoni]

Lance Haters

I was just thinking about the fact he has said many times that he's a much better person since the cancer. WOW! He was actually a bigger jerk before? Boggles the mind.

 

[toppermost]

uniform. ugh

yes. lance sucks. its the little things that make him suck. why cant he wear the same uniform like everyone else? its a team sport. is he special? maybe. but he sucks because he doesn't even attempt - to pretend - that HE does not think he is special. a class one jerk.

ps: im american. if i was european and lance was one of the few americans i habitually saw on tv i would assume a lot of us are jerks too. thanks lance. jerk.

 

[pmcg76]

Was flicking throught the sports pages of the bigest daily national broadsheet papers in my country today, there was a small sidebar (cycling is definintely not big here) about the Giro starting today, it focused on Lance and the ongoing financial problems of Astana. Of the one rider from our country who is also competing in the Giro, nada, nothing, not even a namecheck to mention he is competing. Nice to know you are not worthy of a mention in your own national media when Lance is around.

 

[palmerq]

As this is the lance hating thread I will add some more illogical hating of the fellow. I was disappointed with his antics today, why does he feel the need to be the first over the line for astana he made an effort to make sure he was, he has won the tour 7 times why is it so important for him to be in the leaders jersey for a day or two(if they had made it). I amnot impressed by this, he is on astana team a team funded by kazaks, if anyone shoudl have been over the line first it should have been the only kazak rider there(i think they should have had more in the giro though), but he has to be first over the line, what a git, I am not impressed by this arrogance.


ps
this is the lance hating thread, so do not try to find logic or anything like this in here.

 

[BigBoat]

"UCI is corrupt as HELL....believe me if I)or Lemond) was testing "Lance's" *** would be grass because we would do a total body hemoglobin and no amount of hemodilution with saline and volume expanders would save him at the start line." -"Realgains" lol