'The Old Contador is gone' Claim

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JimPanzen said:
People always talk how Froome is the ne super force and Contador can't make attacks stick anymore. In my opinion it remains to be seen wether Froome can ride long sustained attacks or not. He didn't proof that in the Tour (was allowed to) nor in the Vuelta or Oman.
It's great to see some posters using plain common sense.
 
JimPanzen said:
People always talk how Froome is the ne super force and Contador can't make attacks stick anymore. In my opinion it remains to be seen wether Froome can ride long sustained attacks or not. He didn't proof that in the Tour (was allowed to) nor in the Vuelta or Oman.
The point is that Froome doesn't have to attack. Contador has to, with the first ITT in mind.
 
18-Valve. (pithy) said:
The point is that Froome doesn't have to attack. Contador has to, with the first ITT in mind.
And we've seen Froome ''catenaccio'' effectively which I think is his best way to gain time on Contador in the mountains. Ride defensively for the majority of the climb and then launch at the right moment in the last few km.
 

airstream

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3 big delusions from most of Contador fans:

1. Attacking style is way stronger than defensive style (here, I'm adding: because Contador preaches attacking style). It's false. Defensive style has a wide range of its advantages. I suspect this myth was born just to underline weakness of team Sky in the 2012 Tour and try to convince oneself that Contador is way ahead of these British GT upstarts.

2. An idea that supremacy by actual titles makes him unconditional Tour favorite. It is wrong. Someone is good at something as much as someone is good at something currently. What happened in 2007-2010 is completely irrelevant for the 2013 Tour de France. Every season has its factors, circumstances, relation of forces etc, etc. Previous merits is just for statistics and nothing more.

3. Contador 2009 (2011) level is a guarantor of his invulnerability. It is wrong. There are no ceilings and it is foolish to try set ceilings for his opponents. Theorethically, a better rider can hit the picture every year and it is not a matter of VAM. Time doesnot stay still. Naturally, a fan can contemplate 'it is impossible until it happens' but that is rather self-deception.

When the Tour parcours was unveiled, I expressed my thoughts on a probable winner. Froome 45%, Contador 35%, Andy 10%, all the rest 10% and I stick to that today as well.
 
airstream said:
3 big delusions from most of Contador fans:

1. Attacking style is way stronger than defensive style (here, I'm adding: because Contador preaches attacking style). It's false. Defensive style has a wide range of its advantages. I suspect this myth was born just to underline weakness of team Sky in the 2012 Tour and try to convince oneself that Contador is way ahead of these British GT upstarts.

2. An idea that supremacy by actual titles makes him unconditional Tour favorite. It is wrong. Someone is good at something as much as someone is good at something currently. What happened in 2007-2010 is completely irrelevant for the 2013 Tour de France. Every season has its factors, circumstances, relation of forces etc, etc. Previous merits is just for statistics and nothing more.

3. Contador 2009 (2011) level is a guarantor of his invulnerability. It is wrong. There are no ceilings and it is foolish to try set ceilings for his opponents. Theorethically, a better rider can hit the picture every year and it is not a matter of VAM. Time doesnot stay still. Naturally, a fan can contemplate 'it is impossible until it happens' but that is rather self-deception.

When the Tour parcours was unveiled, I expressed my thoughts on a probable winner. Froome 45%, Contador 35%, Andy 10%, all the rest 10% and I stick to that today as well.
1) So you think Contador is not better than the 2 brits?
2) Yes, every season is different. What does this mean "Someone is good at something as much as someone is good at something currently"?. But the past helps us form our decision sometimes, generally speaking.
3) Time - the sun is the same in a relative way but your are older.

And before you paint me as a contador fanboy lemme tell you i aint.
 

airstream

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Zam_Olyas said:
1) So you think Contador is not better than the 2 brits?
2) Yes, every season is different. What does this mean "Someone is good at something as much as someone is good at something currently"?. But the past helps us form our decision sometimes, generally speaking.
3) Time - the sun is the same in a relative way but your are older.

And before you paint me as a contador fanboy lemme tell you i aint.
1 Nowadays he is not better than Froome and not so much better as many people like to think
2 The final result is a product of riders' preparedness in a certain race at a certain moment. What happened 3-4-5 years ago does not matter.
3 I don't quite get you but seems like we are saying about similar things
 
Feb 15, 2011
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Zam_Olyas said:
1) So you think Contador is not better than the 2 brits?
2) Yes, every season is different. What does this mean "Someone is good at something as much as someone is good at something currently"?. But the past helps us form our decision sometimes, generally speaking.
3) Time - the sun is the same in a relative way but your are older.

And before you paint me as a contador fanboy lemme tell you i aint.
Contador Fanboy, obviously.
 
Zam_Olyas said:
1) So you think Contador is not better than the 2 brits?
Did you read what he wrote? He said that Contador is not "way ahead of these Brits", which does not disclude agreeing that Contador may be "only slightly better" than those Brits.

I can understand that many people became Contador fans back when he was invincible and his competition mostly laid down and played dead whenever he attacked. Is it so hard to accept that there may be some real competition now, and to show the competition a little bit of respect instead of belittling their achievements?
 
Jul 24, 2011
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airstream said:
3 big delusions from most of Contador fans:

1. Attacking style is way stronger than defensive style (here, I'm adding: because Contador preaches attacking style). It's false. Defensive style has a wide range of its advantages. I suspect this myth was born just to underline weakness of team Sky in the 2012 Tour and try to convince oneself that Contador is way ahead of these British GT upstarts.

2. An idea that supremacy by actual titles makes him unconditional Tour favorite. It is wrong. Someone is good at something as much as someone is good at something currently. What happened in 2007-2010 is completely irrelevant for the 2013 Tour de France. Every season has its factors, circumstances, relation of forces etc, etc. Previous merits is just for statistics and nothing more.

3. Contador 2009 (2011) level is a guarantor of his invulnerability. It is wrong. There are no ceilings and it is foolish to try set ceilings for his opponents. Theorethically, a better rider can hit the picture every year and it is not a matter of VAM. Time doesnot stay still. Naturally, a fan can contemplate 'it is impossible until it happens' but that is rather self-deception.

When the Tour parcours was unveiled, I expressed my thoughts on a probable winner. Froome 45%, Contador 35%, Andy 10%, all the rest 10% and I stick to that today as well.
the airstream show, ladies and gentlemen! :D:D
 
Aug 23, 2012
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Netserk said:
Your arguments makes me laugh. When a good shape Contador lost a important race against true opponents at the beginning of a season (first months) ? The question is: Was Contador in Omán in worse shape than Froome or Joaquim Rodríguez?
 
wwabbit said:
Did you read what he wrote? He said that Contador is not "way ahead of these Brits", which does not disclude agreeing that Contador may be "only slightly better" than those Brits.

I can understand that many people became Contador fans back when he was invincible and his competition mostly laid down and played dead whenever he attacked. Is it so hard to accept that there may be some real competition now, and to show the competition a little bit of respect instead of belittling their achievements?
:confused: I think everyone agrees Froome is a real danger to Alberto's tour campaign. We are discussing whether Alberto is not as good anymore. That's it. It's not about Froome but about Alberto.
 
Jason_Mercier said:
Your arguments makes me laugh. When a good shape Contador lost a important race against true opponents at the beginning of a season (first months) ? The question is: Was Contador in Omán in worse shape than Froome or Joaquim Rodríguez?
is oman an important race now? it seems like i didn't get the memo :(
 
Aug 31, 2012
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airstream said:
What happened in 2007-2010 is completely irrelevant for the 2013 Tour de France. Every season has its factors, circumstances, relation of forces etc, etc. Previous merits is just for statistics and nothing more.
This is totally wrong. Past performance is crucial information for predicting future performance.
 

airstream

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SeriousSam said:
This is totally wrong. Past performance is crucial information for predicting future performance.
It has zero impact on things happening on the road.
 
Aug 23, 2012
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Parrulo said:
is oman an important race now? it seems like i didn't get the memo :(
Is not? Is not important a race with Evans, Froome, Joaquim Rod., Nibali, Boonen, Goss, Sagan or Phinney? A race with probably 5 of the best ten GT Contenders of the peloton?
 

airstream

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Jason_Mercier said:
Ok so Contador doesnt care about Froome's victory (his toughest opponent for July)
Exactly. He will not even look at opponents, only at SRM to hit magical numbers.
 
woodenswan said:
the airstream show, ladies and gentlemen! :D:D
Yeah it gets old after a year of it......

Even when one might agree with some of the things he says the way he says it is offensive most of the time.

Airstream have you ever read my posts? I am an Alberto fan, as well as many other riders, but I am Not Delusional.

Want me to post some of your Andy quotes so we can discuss Delusional????
 

airstream

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Carols said:
Yeah it gets old after a year of it......

Even when one might agree with some of the things he says the way he says it is offensive most of the time.

Airstream have you ever read my posts? I am an Alberto fan, as well as many other riders, but I am Not Delusional.

Want me to post some of your Andy quotes so we can discuss Delusional????
I respect you and all forum members. You treat all the things enthusiastically 'cos entertaining battles (with absolutely any winner) is something we are interested more that in just fact of Contador wins and I appreciate it, but there is the other type of fans too so I expressed my opinion and we can discuss if someone disagrees.

Offensive? No problem. Put me in ignore. Miburo [the most die hard fan] apparently already did it. Why does the forum exist if some posters want to read only the things they like?
 

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