The Patrick Lefevere Depreciation Thread

[CyclistAbi]

The problematic part here is going public with something like this, this is not such a good approach. Beyond that it is his job to tell such things to his athletes when the critique is due. We often see in football, for teams selling their footballers, due to their party culture. As an elite athlete you need to find that healthy balance if you can't avoid it completely.

As for the whole sensitive era we live in. Here i must support PL as he is making world more normal, although often through exaggeration. Due to i guess the whole political/social/cultural ... situation being absurd anyway.

 

[rghysens]

Lethal P is back just in time for the start of the classics with a good interview, this time blaming the drink and Marion Rousse for Julian's poor showings!

Lefevere nuanceert scherpe uitspraken die clan-Alaphilippe tegen de borst stootten: “Klinkt zonder context zwaarder dan uitgesproken”

Het zit serieus scheef tussen Patrick Lefevere en de clan-Julian Alaphilippe. De CEO van Soudal Quick-Step deed in Humo een paar scherpe uitspraken over zijn falende kopman en die zijn in het verkeerde keelgat geschoten bij Marion Rousse, de partner van Alaphilippe. Lefevere probeerde zijn...

www.hln.be

Ol´Paddy may state things rather bluntly more often than not, but he´s probably right on this one.

 

[Berniece]

I can write the exact same response as to your last post...? Alaphilippe had been injured for the whole year, yet the boss couldn't keep his mouth shut about how much he was letting him down.

Not to mention the way he talked about Bennett which was incredibly disrespectful against a lot of people.

In case of Alaphilippe, do you mean the comments at the end of 2022? His season can be divided into two parts, spring and summer. He crashed in Strade Bianche so we'll never really know how well he would've ridden otherwise, and obviously the LBL crash also didn't help. But he had a lot of time to build up towards the Vuelta, and I didn't feel he was in a similar shape as TDF 2019 for example.

I have no respect for Bennett, who makes up stories not to ride the bike, but then rides EU championship to keep being paid. After leaving SOQ, the only decent thing he won was a stage at the Vuelta, that's it.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

In case of Alaphilippe, do you mean the comments at the end of 2022? His season can be divided into two parts, spring and summer. He crashed in Strade Bianche so we'll never really know how well he would've ridden otherwise, and obviously the LBL crash also didn't help. But he had a lot of time to build up towards the Vuelta, and I didn't feel he was in a similar shape as TDF 2019 for example.

I have no respect for Bennett, who makes up stories not to ride the bike, but then rides EU championship to keep being paid. After leaving SOQ, the only decent thing he won was a stage at the Vuelta, that's it.

if you really believe that last part, you are an imbecile. Bennett was at the peak of his powers, got injured and has never been quite the same since. All the rest of the noise was Lefevere sulking and throwing a tantrum about it.

 

[Berniece]

if you really believe that last part, you are an imbecile. Bennett was at the peak of his powers, got injured and has never been quite the same since. All the rest of the noise was Lefevere sulking and throwing a tantrum about it, attempting to embarrass an injured rider and succeeding in also embarrassing himself.

I think you forgot how this story played out.

1. Bennett bumps his knee against his handlebars during training, and is injured.
2. Bennett says 3 different things to 3 different people in the team about this.
3. SOQ physio says don't train, and rest. Bennett trains anyway because a random non-team physio in Monaca said to do this.
4. Lefevere said all this in the press, while saying he doubts Bennett is injured, because of the 2 reasons above.
5. Bennett refuses to upload any training data to the systems of SOQ
6. Bennett doesn't want to ride any race for SOQ, because he's injured
7. Bennett rides the EU Championship with 4.000 meters of altitude without discussing this with SOQ. Which resulted in him not losing half of his wages.
8. SOQ puts him in every race possible

 

[Boes]

I think you forgot how this story played out.

1. Bennett bumps his knee against his handlebars during training, and is injured.
2. Bennett says 3 different things to 3 different people in the team about this.
3. SOQ physio says don't train, and rest. Bennett trains anyway because a random non-team physio in Monaca said to do this.
4. Lefevere said all this in the press, while saying he doubts Bennett is injured, because of the 2 reasons above.
5. Bennett refuses to upload any training data to the systems of SOQ
6. Bennett doesn't want to ride any race for SOQ, because he's injured
7. Bennett rides the EU Championship with 4.000 meters of altitude without discussing this with SOQ. Which resulted in him not losing half of his wages.
8. SOQ puts him in every race possible

classic Patje
prolly decided this while undergoing a hypo attack after bottle white wine number 3

 

[Rackham]

Notwithstanding "optics" & the questions regarding how a boss delivers a message in public (many points made about Lefevere's bluntness & even character deficiencies are mostly all valid), the truth is Alaphilippe's form has absolutely collapsed over the past 2 years. Without question. The guy used to be a monster (& routinely referred to as a member of the top 5 or 6 riders in the world). What he did to Rog at Flèche in 2021 was otherworldly in terms of punch. His 2021 Worlds title was even more insane (it was Van der Poel-esque).

People can speculate about his crashes but 'if' there's evidence he took his foot off the gas & partied + drank a bit too much, then at this level there's no miracle. I mean I see lots of outrage on social media about these comments (& in France in particular), but let's be honest here: does anyone expect anything from Alaphilippe this year? I don't.

I wouldn't worry or be concerned about the guy either, i.e. I'm sure once his current contract has expired there's a few French teams who'll drop a 7 figure salary on him based on the name & past glories alone.

 

[Boes]

People can speculate about his crashes but 'if' there's evidence he took his foot off the gas & partied + drank a bit too much, then at this level there's no miracle. I mean I see lots of outrage on social media about these comments (& in France in particular), but let's be honest here: does anyone expect anything from Alaphilippe this year? I don't.

Last year of his contract, his level was pretty good in Australia. I do expect to see some flashes of old school Alaphilippe. He has every incentive to be his best self to get another good contract next year.

 

[tobydawq]

Also, why does he keep having the need to liken his riders to dogs?

"Me never praise my riders, them be like dogs with their feet in the air. Me strong."

Shut it.

 

[Berniece]

Also, why does he keep having the need to liken his riders to dogs?

"Me never praise my riders, them be like dogs with their feet in the air. Me strong."

Shut it.

That I agree with. He shouldn't make any remarks to his wife and their relationship. Just say you find him to drink and party too much.

 

[scribers]

Boozepack

 

[Rackham]

That I agree with. He shouldn't make any remarks to his wife and their relationship. Just say you find him to drink and party too much.

It's funny how selective people have become with the outrage though.

There are footballers out there, past & present, with a highly unprofessional lifestyle & they get absolutely demolished by everyone (like Neymar). I remember when David Beckham's marriage with "Posh Spice" aka a Spice Girl caused Alex Ferguson to have some sleepless nights & question his player's professionalism (he even 'accidentally' kicked a boot at his head in a fit of rage & caused a minor injury).

I could sit here & write a whole long post going over some of today's issues with these types of situations (a celebrity athlete's boss demolishing him publicly), but the armchair psychologist in me says most "outrage" could be because a lot of people might subconsciously feel personally targeted by these comments. Drinking, partying, not being a model pro... are common traits everywhere in every aspect of life & every profession. It's no longer about Alaphilippe (who is apparently well known in the milieu for his lifestyle issues), it's about the people commentating on the story.

That's how I see it in any case. That's because the actual content of Pat Lefevere's remark... is just unremarkable. I mean the absolute only line of defense people can actually wheel out to defend the rider are his crashes & injuries... yet Pat Lefevere is probably well placed to know what the doctors say.

Alaphilippe's form has simply been terrible. Aka not worth 2 million a year.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Alaphilippe and rousse started dating in 2019 after the tour. She didn't seem to hinder him in 2020 and 2021. Not really sure what lefevre is talking about. Alaphilippe had some bad injuries and covid, and lost his best team doctor. Maybe he also lost a bit of motivation after signing a big 3 year contract. To put the blame on rousse is bizarre.

 

[DNP-Old]

Alaphilippe and rousse started dating in 2019 after the tour. She didn't seem to hinder him in 2020 and 2021. Not really sure what lefevre is talking about. Alaphilippe had some bad injuries and covid, and lost his best team doctor. Maybe he also lost a bit of motivation after signing a big 3 year contract. To put the blame on rousse is bizarre.

He isn't blaming her.

 

[Bolder]

I can write the exact same response as to your last post...? Alaphilippe had been injured for the whole year, yet the boss couldn't keep his mouth shut about how much he was letting him down.

Not to mention the way he talked about Bennett which was incredibly disrespectful against a lot of people.

Exactly. Although I appreciate his love of the sport, and I think he's serious when he says he gets immense happiness from seeing riders reach their potential, he also doesn't hesitate to kick them when they're down, and in public. Not sure that's ever worked. He can be frank with Alaf in private and I'm sure the message will be heard just as loudly and clearly...

 

[Bolder]

He isn't blaming her.

He did in the translation posted above.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I think you forgot how this story played out.

1. Bennett bumps his knee against his handlebars during training, and is injured.
2. Bennett says 3 different things to 3 different people in the team about this.
3. SOQ physio says don't train, and rest. Bennett trains anyway because a random non-team physio in Monaca said to do this.
4. Lefevere said all this in the press, while saying he doubts Bennett is injured, because of the 2 reasons above.
5. Bennett refuses to upload any training data to the systems of SOQ
6. Bennett doesn't want to ride any race for SOQ, because he's injured
7. Bennett rides the EU Championship with 4.000 meters of altitude without discussing this with SOQ. Which resulted in him not losing half of his wages.
8. SOQ puts him in every race possible

This is just as stupid as your previous contribution.

Bennett got injured. The injury was very clearly real and with the benefit of three years of hindsight we can now divide his career quite cleanly into the period before and after that injury. There may have been all kinds of disagreements behind the scenes about how to handle the injury, although Lefevere’s petulant ranting is not a reliable source on that point or any other.

Lefevere, infuriated by the loss of a guy who’d been dominant all season before the TdeF and reacting with his customary good grace to being thwarted, went berserk in the media, accusing his rider of faking the injury because he’s mentally weak. After that, there was of course no longer any collegiate or cooperative relationship because Lefevere had publicly destroyed any possibility of one. It was one of the most bizarre and publicly malicious things a team owner has done in recent years.

On both sides the sensible thing to do at that point was to hold on to whatever dignity those involved had left, let the end of the contract run down and go your separate ways. Bennett was recovering from an injury and once he’d recovered enough to train properly was uncompetitively out of shape. He was of no use in any race to QS and they all knew it. Lefevere switched tack to trying to slash his rider’s pay, more it seems out of a desire to punish than out of greed. Bennett responded by entering a race he was entirely uncompetitive in to stop him. Again thwarted, Lefevere puts him in as many races as possible, even though he was of course nearly useless to the team. Just petulance, followed by more petulance.

Throughout all of this Lefevere ranted and threw tantrums in the Belgian press, talking through sycophantic journalists to sycophantic members of the public. Bennett, correctly, just stayed silent and waited to depart the team at the end of the year.

 

[Berniece]

This is just as stupid as your previous contribution.

Bennett got injured. The injury was very clearly real and with the benefit of three years of hindsight we can now divide his career quite cleanly into the period before and after that injury. There may have been all kinds of disagreements behind the scenes about how to handle the injury, although Lefevere’s petulant ranting is not a reliable source on that point or any other.

Lefevere, infuriated by the loss of a guy who’d been dominant all season before the TdeF and reacting with his customary good grace to being thwarted, went berserk in the media, accusing his rider of faking the injury because he’s mentally weak. After that, there was of course no longer any collegiate or cooperative relationship because Lefevere had publicly destroyed any possibility of one. It was be of the most bizarre and publicly malicious things a team owner has done in recent years.

On both sides the sensible thing to do at that point was to hold on to whatever dignity those involved had left, let the end of the contract run down and go your separate ways. Bennett was recovering from an injury and once he’d recovered enough to train properly was uncompetitively out of shape. He was of no use in any race to QS and they all knew it. Lefevere switched tack to trying to slash his rider’s pay, more it seems out of a desire to punish than out of greed. Bennett responded by entering a race he was entirely uncompetitive in to stop him. Again thwarted, Lefevere puts him in as many races as possible, even though he was of course nearly useless to the team. Just petulance, followed by more petulance.

Throughout all of this Lefevere ranted and threw tantrums in the Belgian press, talking through sycophantic journalists to sycophantic members of the public. Bennett, correctly, just stayed silent and waited to depart the team at the end of the year.

I based myself on facts, while you are trying to deduce how Lefevere is thinking or handling Bennett leaving.

 

[DNP-Old]

He did in the translation posted above.

I'll stick to reading the real thing, thanks.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I based myself on facts, while you are trying to deduce how Lefevere is thinking or handling Bennett leaving.

No, you simply took Lefevere‘s claims at face value, treating them as facts, because you are a sycophant.

 

[Bolder]

I'll stick to reading the real thing, thanks.

It said something different?

 

[Berniece]

No, you simply took Lefevere‘s claims at face value, treating them as facts, because you are a sycophant.

I don't think you know what that word means

 

[Rackham]

White text on a black background, i.e. things just got serious!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1760286871928639934

View: https://twitter.com/Roussemarion/status/1760286871928639934

 

[hrotha]

I'll stick to reading the real thing, thanks.

Te veel feesten, te veel alcohol... Julian ligt serieus onder de sloef bij Marion. Misschien wel té veel
"Too much partying, too much alcohol... Julian is very much under Marion's spell. Maybe even too much" (emphasis in the original)
🤔

Onder de sloef liggen is a bit tricky to translate into idiomatic English but he's basically saying that Marion calls the shots and Julian just goes along

 

[DNP-Old]

Te veel feesten, te veel alcohol... Julian ligt serieus onder de sloef bij Marion. Misschien wel té veel
("Too much partying, too much alcohol... Julian is very much under Marion's spell. Maybe even too much")
🤔

Onder de sloef liggen is a bit tricky to translate into idiomatic English but he's basically saying that Marion calls the shots and Julian just goes along

Yes, and two sentences prior he says that the one responsible for the struggles of Alaphilippe is Alaphilippe, who, and this is where he actually blames someone, is said to be not fully committed.