I've found the paywall circumvention for the full interview, usual translation warning as it will contain inaccuracies.
JOSÉ DE CAUWER «I know Patrick Lefevere very well.»
PATRICK LEFEVERE «As a rider, we didn't have any contact. I rode for a small team, José for big teams like TI-Raleigh and Peugeot. I was a rider from 1976 to 1979. How long have you been a pro?»
DE CAUWER «From 1972 to 1980. Then my wife died and I became a team leader.
»Patrick and I have never been top riders. But for a sports director, that's an advantage, because otherwise you think everything will happen automatically.»
LEFEVERE «Few top drivers have gone on to become good sports directors.»
DE CAUWER "None, and that's a strange observation. Just like the fact that I am now 74 years old.»
LEFEVERE "In my mind, I'm not 69 either. When I see people my age, I think: 'Oh well, I can't possibly be that old!»
HUMO You've been at it for so long, Patrick, but you still celebrate every victory as if it were the first.
DE CAUWER «You can have as much fun with a victory of a fairground driver as with a victory of
Tom Boonen in Paris-Roubaix.»
HUMO Sean Kelly's best victory was against Eddy Merckx. In a small French race, while Merckx was already on his way out.
DE CAUWER "That proves how relative everything is. Take
Wout van Aert, for example. His team will say, 'It's fantastic what you've already done.' But if I were his father, I would say: 'You ride the Tour like a fool for
Vingegaard. Think about your own chances.'»
LEFEVERE «Visma-Lease a Bike races like my team has always done: all riders ride for each other.
Richard Plugge (team manager of Visma-Lease a Bike, ed.) said to me: 'You are my teacher.' But if you look at the results, you have to conclude that the pupil has surpassed the master.»
HUMO: Do you agree that Visma-Lease a Bike has become the measure of all things?
LEFEVERE "Yes, of course it is. But it's an exaggeration: they're still Dutch, they can sell themselves well.»
DE CAUWER «'The Plan', that's the name of the book they have published.
(Frowns) Boys! I've often thought during competitions: this wasn't your plan, here you just got lucky. But chapeau, they have brought about something in cycling.»
HUMO: How would Wout van Aert feel about the criticism that he has to ride more for himself?
LEFEVERE "I haven't received a call from his manager yet. That means he's happy there, right?»
HUMO Cycling-loving Flanders longs for a victory for Van Aert in the Tour of Paris-Roubaix.
DE CAUWER «His team says: we will only be satisfied if Wout wins the Tour of Roubaix. They put a lot of pressure on him."
LEFEVERE «His team is no longer interested in the Omloop Het Nieuwsblad, but in the Tour and the monuments.»
DE CAUWER «By the way, I thought it was great what Plugge said: 'We don't see punctures in Paris-Roubaix as bad luck. That must not happen again.' How is he going to arrange that?»
HUMO Van Aert was just unlucky, wasn't he?
LEFEVERE "Do you know when I knew he wouldn't win a monument? After the E3 Saxo Classic. When he said, 'I
just don't have to do anything.' That's when I knew: he's there, devastated by the stress.»
DE CAUWER "You should ask a psychologist what it means when someone says, 'I
just don't have to do anything.' The opposite:
I just have to. Have you ever met a drunk who admits he's fed up?»
LEFEVERE «I dare to say that Wout is a stronger athlete, but
Mathieu van der Poel is better at peaking. He stands out.»
DE CAUWER "His power is enormous. About Milan-Sanremo they said that you can't finish solo there anymore. But what does Mathieu do? He drives off alone."
LEFEVERE "And he wasn't even in the breakaway at first."
DE CAUWER "He's always too far, so nonchalant. As a sports director, that's crazy.»
LEFEVERE «I can see it immediately when Mathieu is having a bad day. Just like
Adrie did at the time: then he puts his head completely between his shoulders
. But if the
kinneke is forward, you have to be careful.
»Adrie was much more serious, he is a real farmer's son. He doesn't like Mathieu driving a Lamborghini."
DE CAUWER "He told me, 'Mathieu has sold his dirt bikes. That's a few sleepless nights less.' I felt the relief.
»Adrie once told me that Mathieu was setting up his man cave. He left for the store to buy a flat-screen TV, but came back with a Porsche. He adds: 'Dad, I'm going to make money from this.' 'Yes, I will?' replies Adrie resignedly.
»Now, the current generation is great to watch. It's one of the reasons why I regret being so old. The race has become so clean.»
TEARS FOR REMCO
HUMO: How do you look at modern cycling, where everything is weighed and measured?
LEFEVERE "It goes a long way. The riders get paranoid and think it's better on someone else. They used to think that the other teams had a better doctor, but now they think that the competition has a better dietician.»
DE CAUWER "You know what I think, Patrick? If you have
Jurgen Foré (the new COO of Soudal-Quick· Step, ed.) five years ago, you could have focused more on your team."
HUMO What do you mean, José?
DE CAUWER «Patrick has let it go a bit. He has relinquished too much of the sporting leadership in recent years.»
LEFEVERE «Yes, but I had no choice: I had to find sponsors.»
DE CAUWER «In the meantime, a certain Remco Evenepoel has joined the team. To guide them correctly, you need the very best mentor, someone who can beat and anoint. Only he can do that
(points to Lefevere). There are few with Patrick's talent. That's feeling, that's art. It's not just sitting in the support car or making a PowerPoint.»
LEFEVERE «I have five sports directors. Nobody likes it when I keep telling them how to do it.»
DE CAUWER «Just being there is enough. Your people need that firm hand. Although you can't be too strict. When I was still racing, my sports director
Peter Post shouted: 'Like you, we have a dime a dozen.' He hoped I would get angry and kick even harder. You shouldn't try that now.»
LEFEVERE «I never shouted and ranted. That is a sign of impotence. But you should never tell a rider that you are very happy. It's like a dog: if you rub it on its belly, it stays with its paws up.»
In '
Uninhibited', the book about Evenepoel's youth, his former coach Fred Vandervennet says: 'You have to deal with Remco decisively, because because of his verbal qualities and emotional intelligence, he immediately grabs you.' Does that happen to you too?
LEFEVERE «Remco has the character of a time trialist: focused and inflexible. He doesn't let go easily. But I don't have any problems with his personality or character."
HUMO: Didn't it feel ungrateful when father Evenepoel said before the World Championships in Glasgow that the team had to take four or five steps forward?
LEFEVERE «I answered him, but then you have to turn the page. I used to be stubborn. Over the years, I have become milder: I have learned to forgive. But I don't forget: I have an elephant's memory.»
HUMO: As a teammate, I wouldn't be happy with someone saying that the team has to be four or five times better.
LEFEVERE "Those are his father's words, not Remco's. I can assure you that the relationship with Remco is very professional. He's even too good for his teammates. He compensates them financially for their work. Out of pocket. Just before the World Championships in Australia, his father said to me: 'Wout van Aert has mentioned an amount that he will give to his teammates if he wins. I told Remco to give double or triple that.' To which I replied: 'No, you shouldn't do that. Give the same as Wout. If Remco is the best, he will still win.' They have to ride for each other in the national team, right? If you start bidding in advance, you don't have a team anymore.»
DE CAUWER «I was the first to interview Remco for the VRT. When I arrived, his father warned me, "José, he's no ordinary boy." I asked Remco: 'What do you want to win?' And he: 'The world championship and the three Grand Tours.' His father looked at me like, 'I told you so, didn't I?'"
HUMO The fact that he is only satisfied with the highest does not make it easy.
DE CAUWER "He's very himself. The figure of Evenepoel fascinates me enormously.
»You know, maybe the troubles of last year – the rumours about a transfer and a merger – haven't been so bad. Everyone has their feet back on the ground. As a rider, you also have to ask yourself: 'What would change if I went to another team?' Not so much. They just let themselves be fooled.»
LEFEVERE «With us, the family aspect is much more important than with other teams. Let that be something to which Remco attaches great importance. With us, there is still a little bit of room to live.»
DE CAUWER «
Tom Steels (directeur sportif at Soudal-Quick· Step, ed.) put it nicely: 'Our riders have to follow the rules for 90 percent. As far as the other 10 percent are concerned, they can do what they want, so they don't lose the fun." A lot of young riders quit because they can't take it anymore.»
HUMO Geraint Thomas said that young riders don't allow themselves much decompression.
LEFEVERE «The mental aspect is so important. Our young rider
Paul Magnier, who has already won twice this season, is barely 19 years old. He beats big names. He has also beaten
Tim Merlier three times in training. They're only getting younger, I don't understand it anymore. It also scares me: I come from a period when you were only allowed to ride the Tour from the age of 24. How long can you keep up with always weighing your food and doing those altitude training sessions?»
DE CAUWER «I cried when Remco became world champion. Because I know the sacrifices it takes. I know his parents, and I think: what must be going on in these people's minds?»
HUMO Did it make you emotional too, Patrick?
LEFEVERE «Of course. You can't forget: Remco was lying in a ravine after that fall in Lombardy. For the same money, he was now in a wheelchair. I remember how he crossed the finish line roaring at his first victory in Liège: it came from so deep. I thought: Remco, stop, they're going to use those images for the rest of your life. But all those emotions from that fall had to come out. Just like the pressure he's felt all his life. Also from home. His parents are two hard-working self-employed people. They taught him: if you want to achieve something, you can't do it by halves.»
HUMO Evenepoel lost his GC in the Vuelta last year due to a bad day. José, you attribute that off-day to that pressure.
DE CAUWER «Yes. Barely one day later, Evenepoel rides away with
Romain Bardet again and wins the stage. You can't be bad one day and good the next. It was the stress.»
LEFEVERE "It was a coincidence. There was the excitement for the stage to the Tourmalet, there was the stress of the rumours surrounding that merger, and on top of that, he didn't have an ideal preparation.»
APART FROM GOD
HUMO Patrick, you say: 'José could make a rider do whatever he wanted.'
LEFEVERE «Yes, José is very sensitive. Playing on someone's emotions has always been his strength. He can do it better than I can."
DE CAUWER «Patrick also knows the secret to making someone win. It's like cooking: one requires you to add more salt, the other a little more sweet. But the crucial question remains: do they want it badly enough? Cycling is the ultimate metaphor of life. I wrote a book about it.»
HUMO 'The 10 commandments of José De Cauwer'. Have you read it yet, Patrick?
LEFEVERE «There is one book on my bedside table: the Bible. But I haven't gotten any further than the preface. I would like to read it in its entirety, just like the Koran. To know the difference.»
HUMO Are you praying?
LEFEVERE "No, I haven't done that for a long time. I was raised Catholic. My mother and my sister went together to the basilica of Dadizele, a place of pilgrimage in our neighbourhood.»
DE CAUWER «I have also renounced prayer. As a little boy, I used to ride my bike to Mass at five o'clock in the morning. But what I did afterwards was much more interesting to me: catching birds! At the age of 12 I already had nets of 20 meters long. Back then, that was still allowed.»
LEFEVERE «Have you eaten magpies?»
DE CAUWER "No, but there are starlings, thrushes and sparrows. My mother prepared them. It was the early 60s: there was never enough food. Very tasty, it tastes just like game.»
HUMO The older you get, the more you return to your faith, they say.
LEFEVERE «Recently, a young priest approached me at a local competition. He said, 'You are the most Catholic person present here, because you do so much good for the people.' I told him, "I have learned that a shepherd must bring his sheep back to the flock. Can you explain to me why no priest has ever come to my door in the seventeen years that I have lived in Oostrozebeke?' You visit the home of a pagan – I'm divorced – to convince him to come back to church, don't you? Never happened. I would have listened anyway.»
HUMO: Was Evenepoel also a lost sheep?
LEFEVERE «No, Remco is a good sheep: he has never fallen out of the herd. But it's about giving people opportunities, also in cycling. Case in point:
Mark Cavendish. Actually, he was lost to the sport.»
DE CAUWER «What was it like to bring him back to his old level?»
LEFEVERE «A powerful feeling. When he won again, I saw everyone in our team cry for the first time.»
DE CAUWER "There are maybe twenty people who bring tears to my eyes when we see each other.
Johan Museeuw,
Filip Meirhaeghe, Hennie Kuiper, Eddy Planckaert, people of whom I know: they have benefited from me. And vice versa.
(To Humo) I wonder if you know that feeling. I don't think so. Patrick and I have made people experience the highlight of their lives, and that gives an indescribable feeling.»
LEFEVERE "We've lifted people above their level. I hope to do that again with
Gianni Moscon. If he wins a race this year, it will be the match of my life. He wanted to quit. But I'm not going to regret bringing him to my team."
HUMO You're right, José: the sports director's fire is still burning.
LEFEVERE (imperturbable) «As a sports director, I wanted to know everything about a rider: who his parents are, who his love is, what his dog's name is. I could read the problems on someone's face, he didn't have to say anything. But now, with five sports directors and as many trainers, doctors and psychologists, as a manager I don't have the same relationship with riders anymore.»
DE CAUWER "I'm in your
service course. during the period of the merger rumours: there was a funeral mood. A few weeks later, when it was all over: nothing but smiling faces, as if a thousand kilos had fallen off their shoulders. I have incredible sympathy for those people. You can see it in my eyes
(shoots full).»
LEFEVERE «The staff organised a surprise dinner afterwards, in the
service course, to thank me for the survival of the team.
»To be honest, the merger would have been a good thing for me financially. But then my wife says, 'We don't need that money.' Can be good. I don't care about finances: I don't even know what a loaf of bread costs.
"Bon, my people were excited. But I said that night, 'Thank you all for staying put. But to those who still dare to
complain about what happened, I say: there is the door. Everything is closed here and now.' I don't want malcontent people in my team.»
DE CAUWER «Blessed.»
LEFEVERE "That dinner meant a lot to me. There are so many people working under me and I don't want to hurt them, but it all happened over my head. The merger revolved around two billionaires:
Robert van der Wallen (the Dutch strongman behind Visma-Lease a Bike, ed.) and
Zdenek Bakala (the Czech patron of Soudal-Quick· Step, ed.). They dreamed of building the very best cycling team in the world. When the merger flopped, I read the disappointment on Bakala's face. Such super-rich have not yet experienced much adversity in their lives. The breaking point was a carelessness on the Dutch side. And also the bikes. Bicycle manufacturers have more and more power. A rider like Van der Poel has a personal contract with Canyon, Remco with Specialized. And then the misery begins, because you're trapped."
UNDER THE SLOOP
HUMO: Can we also expect the resurrection of Julian Alaphilippe this year?
LEFEVERE «
Julian is a good guy, but after he signed his mega contract, he didn't perform anymore. I like to see my riders, but it has to be fair. As you get older, you have to take care of yourself more, you have to train harder, and you can't throw your hat at it. He now has to make the connection and fight for it."
HUMO: Is he picking himself up?
LEFEVERE «Yes. I spoke to him in November last year. In the presence of his wife
Marion (
Rousse, ed.) and his manager
Dries Smets, I said: 'It can't go on like this. If you do something wrong one more time, I'll fire you on the spot.' The message has arrived.»
HUMO 'Something goes wrong' sounds rather cryptic: what do I mean by that?
LEFEVERE «Too much partying, too much alcohol... Julian is seriously in Marion's swoop. Maybe too much. Julian is a young dog who is full of energy: you have to let him cross in the garden every now and then. And you also have to say: this far and no further. There's still a naughty guy in him.»
HUMO: You never seem to be able to get enough of the race.
DE CAUWER «If your profession is your hobby, it never stops. Once a fisherman, always a fisherman.»
LEFEVERE «Or birdcatcher.»
DE CAUWER «Or like my father: pigeon fancier.»
HUMO: Your father passed away last year.
DE CAUWER "He was 102 years old. He never saw the sea, never had a car. He worked at the Boelwerf (former shipyard in Temse, ed.). And on top of that, he also worked on the farm. He was busy from morning to night.»
LEFEVERE "And he lived to be 102? Folks, the message is: you don't work enough! So the four-day workweek is ***.
»Tell me, José, is your daughter still with
Marino Punk?»
DE CAUWER "Yes, my eldest daughter
Debbie. I also have two daughters with my second wife.»
HUMO She was ill. Is she already improving?
DE CAUWER «Yes, but who can say if she is completely cured?»
LEFEVERE "She didn't have the same thing as her mom, did she?"
DE CAUWER "Not quite. Debbie was diagnosed with breast cancer. My wife died of lymphoma.»
LEFEVERE "I remember that well. We weren't used to that, someone who lost his wife at the age of 30. We were in with José, but it's not like we all took him in.»
DE CAUWER "Now we live in a society where everyone asks, 'Are you okay? Isn't it too heavy?' But then it was different. I was in misery and immediately decided to become a sports director. My two sisters were both entrepreneurs: one had a large butcher's shop in Brussels, the other the largest fruit and vegetable trade in the Waasland region. They were busy 24 hours a day. They also both died of cancer. During their illness they came to the realization: 'Allee, why didn't we ever ask if you were okay?' That hardened me, yes. »
HUMO: Did cycling throw you a lifeline after the death of your first wife?
DE CAUWER «Absolutely. My sisters were only concerned with making money. I then said: ladies, you can all go up the tree, I'm going to do what I want from now on. It was a kind of rebellion against society.
»Debbie always had great grades in school. But one night, when she was 19 years old, she told me, "I'm not going to school anymore. I'm going to live with my love. A punk, from Menen.' My world came crashing down. I said, 'Debbie, you can be a lawyer or a doctor.' After a long discussion, she said: 'You've been doing what you've been doing all your life, I'm going to do that too.' We drank a bottle of cognac together and fell into each other's arms. And now, when the family gets together, Marino picks up his accordion and starts playing songs."
LEFEVERE «Do you know which artist I admire a lot?
Willem Vermandere. I'm never depressed, but in West Flanders you sometimes have those black days when it's windy and raining all the time. That hits you so hard that you think: I'm going to stay in my bed today. There is no course, no meeting. And then you hear Vermandere's 'A Thousand Soldiers' on the radio.»
DE CAUWER "'Always someone's father, always someone's child.'"
LEFEVERE "Then you listen to those lyrics and you don't want to get up at all. Life is so bleak sometimes, we have to accept that.»
DE CAUWER «What I have with getting older: I can start crying here and now, just by thinking about something. And it's only going to get worse."
HUMO Why is that?
DE CAUWER «By being purified, by being at peace with everything. I can cry to see Remco become world champion. But also because of what Patrick has been through in the last year. We have a better relationship than most people think. I love people immensely, I love Patrick immensely. Because he throws himself into it every day. But I hate lazy people who complain all the time. Then I think: have you actually done something with your life yet?
»I think we should educate our children more with the realities of life and not try to protect them from all the evils, because that's not how you get strong people.»
LEFEVERE "It's going too much the other way."
DE CAUWER "I'm not saying that you have to accept that people are dying. But even when his second daughter died, my father, who was already 100 years old, said, "Yes, son, we're going to have to move forward." At such moments, you begin to realize the meaning of life. What you do, you have to do with passion.»
HUMO Everyone likes you, José. Maybe because you never let your ego play?
DE CAUWER «My ego can go in a small bag.»
LEFEVERE «From Louis Vuitton.»
DE CAUWER «Behold man, you do not know him. Patrick is also a good person, despite what some people think.»
HUMO Stéphane Heulot, the CEO of Lotto Dstny, stated in an interview that Arnaud De Lie's parents were not happy that you had flown to the Ardennes in a helicopter to negotiate with them.
LEFEVERE «I know, through the grapevine, that at Lotto Dstny they have a lot of trouble finding staff. Then I say: Mr.
Heulot, look in your own garden. I didn't feel like driving 300 kilometers. In addition, my son, who is a pilot, needed flight hours. I discussed it beforehand, and I don't think that was the breaking point. I made an offer and Lotto Dstny outbid me. But
Arnaud is a smart young boy: he has only signed for two years. That'll be over in no time.»
THE HYPE OF THE HYPO
HUMO In Humo's Pop Poll, Lotte Kopecky came in first place as the most popular sports figure. Is her popularity gradually outstripping that of men?
LEFEVERE "The progress she's made is not normal."
DE CAUWER «Unfortunately, it also says a lot about women's cycling: it's going too fast. Although you can't say that out loud.»
HUMO Jolien D'Hoore, the sports director of Patrick's women's team AG Insurance-Soudal, said wages have tripled in three years.
DE CAUWER «The minimum wage for women in the World Tour is 42,000 euros gross. While many riders are not worth it. They have to put money into the training first. Now they're skipping steps.»
LEFEVERE "I'm glad you said it. We have riders in the team who can't keep up. If they pull through at the front, only twenty can follow. They even had to increase the time limit, because three-quarters of the peloton didn't make it.»
HUMO But Kopecky does stir something in the audience.
DE CAUWER "Losing your brother and still showing such resilience: phenomenal."
LEFEVERE «Or how she comes to the Flandrien gala, wearing such a daring dress: wow!»
DE CAUWER "She said, 'I have offers from other teams.' I immediately thought: our comrade
(points to Lefevere) is one of them.»
LEFEVERE "Of course we are trying to bring her to our team. Our sponsor, AG Insurance, is a purely Belgian company. And who is a more beautiful Belgian poster child than Lotte? It hasn't worked out yet, but I wouldn't like anything more. She's incredible. If her Dutch teammates had ridden for her, she would have won the Tour.
»(Lefevere receives the results of his blood test on his phone) I get tested regularly. As a diabetic, I spend a lot of time thinking about my health.»
HUMO Thanks to you, the world got to know the hypo: in a broadcast of 'Vive le vélo' you gave a drunken impression, but according to you it was due to a drop in your blood sugar.
LEFEVERE «I had a hypo last week. It takes me hours to recover from that. When my blood sugar drops below 90, I start shaking. Now I had 54: even lower and I could drop dead.»
DE CAUWER «Thanks to you, people start to doubt when they see a hypo.»
LEFEVERE "They laugh about it, but I don't care. I had drunk wine that day, maybe a little too much, but also very little. At 'Vive le vélo' they asked me to turn off my phone. A big mistake: it meant that the alarm couldn't go off when my blood sugar took a dive. During the broadcast, I felt that something was happening to me: my words came out slowly. A professor from Leuven, who specialises in diabetes, stated the next day: 'Someone with a hypo looks drunk, while they are not.' I am very grateful to that woman. Actually, I've done pioneering work for diabetics
.»
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