Teams & Riders The Pogačar - Van der Poel rivalry

[Berniece]

I didn't include any non one-day race, are you ok? Pogacar is the best as far as one-day race results are concerned. That's all I'm saying.

I mean it as non monuments or WC

 

[AmRacer]

I mean it as non monuments or WC

9-8
1-1

 

[hayneplane]

9-8
1-1

And in this timeframe Pog missed out twice in a highly favourable monument in LBL or he could easily have 11 now.

If MVDP had those same circumstances forcing him to miss a highly favourable monument such as PR in 2022 and 2023 then it would be 11-8 and only just a contest.

Even just looking at this year so far (which is skewed anyway as one rider has finished all their big targets and the other has some left) then they are 2-2 in monuments and 2-1 to Pogacar for other World Tour one day wins. Those numbers are also only going to go further in favour of Pogacar as the season concludes.

MVDP is a fabulous one day racer and has a strong case for being the best cobbled classics rider of all time but across the whole spectrum of single day classics he doesn’t reach the bar of Pogacar.

 

[Berniece]

And in this timeframe Pog missed out twice in a highly favourable monument in LBL or he could easily have 11 now.

Or you could say he was lucky his biggest opponent wasn't at his best and he could've had 7. That can go both ways.

 

[AmRacer]

Or you could say he was lucky his biggest opponent wasn't at his best and he could've had 7. That can go both ways.

@Froome would've had 8 TdF's

 

[hayneplane]

Or you could say he was lucky his biggest opponent wasn't at his best and he could've had 7. That can go both ways.

They already have gone both ways.

If you wanted to go further down that road then there is at least as much evidence to support that Pogacar skipping RVV in 2024 to focus on Giro-Tour double gifted MDVP a win and that PR 2023 puncture for WVA when he was looking super strong and on the attack on the final 5 star sector was at least a 50/50 chance for Wout to win that.

Other than that if you are going to decide who is the best one day racer then at minimum you need to look at their records in all WT one day races or higher classes and do so over the full calendar year.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

I think the monument comparison is very flawed.
Pogacar gobbles up a lot of Lombardias, a race that should automatically disqualify because it is held in October where 80% of the field is already on holiday mode eating cookies and drinking beer the week beforehand. The sole reason why he keeps winning it is because he lives like a boring monk and would probably also in form when you wake him up in mid December. Hard to give him credit for that.
The only time it was held in August in 2020 it had immidiately a very respectable winner in Fuglsang.

LBL is tricky. On one hand it has some incredible respectable winners such as Frank Vandenbroucke, Vino, Andy Schleck or Fuglsang. On the other hand, any race that can be won 4 freaking times by Valverde should immidiately be discarded as a relevant race. So tough call.

That basically leaves MSR, Roubaix and Flanders. MSR would be a great comparison but MVDP has disqualified the race from being a measuring stick since he decided to babysit for Philipsen, a disgrace that leaves me no choice but to only look at PR and Flanders. Where it currently is at 2-2. Tough one.

 

[James M]

He's better because he beat Pogacar in MSR and PR, while only losing RVV because he was sick. Those are 3 monuments our of 5 he would've beaten Pogacar in

What am I reading. I need to mute—what’s the point at this stage.

Pogacar is the best classic rider by a good margin. MvdP isn’t close to him in his terrain, while Pog is close to MvdP in his—so close that he even beats him at times. MvdP, on his own, is the best cobble classics rider and an all-time great. That’s it. But in no metric besides cobble classics does he measure up against Pogacar throughout.

 

[Berniece]

What am I reading. I need to mute—what’s the point at this stage.

There's a topic for that, it's the Pogacar thread.

 

[James M]

There's absolutely no confidence MVP would've won RVV (he lost their previous meeting actually), it's your bias. Sticking to facts: Pogacar has 3 monuments + WC (which you conveniently omitted), only Merckx had such a resume, while MVP has 2 monuments. Game over, not even close.

Even if we assume that MVP would've won RVV (let's play your game for a moment) then he would've 3 monuments while Pog 2 monuments + WC. It's close but some edge to Pog (as WC is the most important one day race).

Word. And I think we both adore the beast that is MvdP, but it’s not hard to acknowledge that he isn’t close to Pogacar as a classic rider overall. He’s the best cobble classics rider, but that’s where it ends—game over. Not even close. Yes.

 

[hayneplane]

I would like to see them head to head in the Gravel Worlds if a suitable calendar slot could be fitted.