The Powermeter Thread

[JamesCun]

Keep it in the right forum Frank. This is about power meters, not pedalling technique.

 

[FrankDay]

Keep it in the right forum Frank. This is about power meters, not pedalling technique.

My friend, I was simply responding to the OT post by Alex Simmons. Of course, the problem is there is a certain amount of overlap when power meters also, purportedly, measure pedaling technique. Where to draw the line? What a conundrum.

 

[42x16ss]

An interesting representation of Jack Haig, Neil van der Ploeg and Steele von Hoff's power profiles from yesterday's TDU stage.

http://www.todaysplan.com.au/wp-content/themes/todaysplan/embed/replay

 

[CoachFergie]

Wow, that is very cool.

I see Todays Plan allows people to create their own training programmes or even cooler have the site developed programmes based on courses.

Will be investing the site.

 

[CoachFergie]

TBH Didn't like the lack of functionality with Todays Plan so have stopped that experiment.

That being said, still think TrainingPeaks is waaaay behind what it could be for professional coach and athlete.

My study on long term training metrics earned me my Masters Degree so the next step is to try and get the study published, then start working on a PhD.

 

[FrankDay]

TBH Didn't like the lack of functionality with Todays Plan so have stopped that experiment.

That being said, still think TrainingPeaks is waaaay behind what it could be for professional coach and athlete.

My study on long term training metrics earned me my Masters Degree so the next step is to try and get the study published, then start working on a PhD.

Nobody has yet to show that any of this information makes any difference anyhow so how is it possible to say someone is "way behind" someone else who also hasn't demonstrated a difference in outcome?

 

[CoachFergie]

Nobody has yet to show that any of this information makes any difference anyhow so how is it possible to say someone is "way behind" someone else who also hasn't demonstrated a difference in outcome?

Good, then plenty of scope for me to make a dent in the knowledge with my PhD!

 

[FrankDay]

Good, then plenty of scope for me to make a dent in the knowledge with my PhD!

Have fun and good luck! Until then I think you should refrain from declaring one side or the other (or both sides) the winner as there may be no benefit to using this data at all, regardless of how it is presented (at least none has yet been demonstrated).

 

[CoachFergie]

Have fun and good luck! Until then I think you should refrain from declaring one side or the other (or both sides) the winner as there may be no benefit to using this data at all, regardless of how it is presented (at least none has yet been demonstrated).

Already well established that the power meter measures what we think it measures. That some of those measures have an acceptable level of error and some don't.

Well established that a change in power is has better relationship with an improvement in actual performance than any other measure related to performance.

Opportunities for further study include, determination of threshold, determination of training stress scores, determination of anaerobic work capacity and the use of all those metrics to guide the coaching process.

The benefit comes from training, recovering, eating well, having a good process, being well set up on the bike, have good riding skills, using your gearing well etc. A power meter is one way of measuring this.

 

[FrankDay]

Already well established that the power meter measures what we think it measures. That some of those measures have an acceptable level of error and some don't.

Well established that a change in power is has better relationship with an improvement in actual performance than any other measure related to performance.

Opportunities for further study include, determination of threshold, determination of training stress scores, determination of anaerobic work capacity and the use of all those metrics to guide the coaching process.

The benefit comes from training, recovering, eating well, having a good process, being well set up on the bike, have good riding skills, using your gearing well etc. A power meter is one way of measuring this.

Wow!!! You don't see an opportunity for further study that using a power meter (in any particular way) actually has benefits in improving training outcome for the athlete over what can be done without one? What good does all that other stuff do if it doesn't result in an improved outcome?

 

[CoachFergie]

Wow!!! You don't see an opportunity for further study that using a power meter (in any particular way) actually has benefits in improving training outcome for the athlete over what can be done without one? What good does all that other stuff do if it doesn't result in an improved outcome?

Back to trolling Frank. How typical.

Do people lose weight because they weigh themselves?

 

[JamesCun]

Wow!!! You don't see an opportunity for further study that using a power meter (in any particular way) actually has benefits in improving training outcome for the athlete over what can be done without one? What good does all that other stuff do if it doesn't result in an improved outcome?

I don't know why anyone bothers responding here.

A power meter is a great way to measure that outcome and to be able to measure that outcome without doing a race. A power meter is a measurement device. It is very, very good at measuring what it claims to measure.

 

[CoachFergie]

I don't know why anyone bothers responding here.

A power meter is a great way to measure that outcome and to be able to measure that outcome without doing a race. A power meter is a measurement device. It is very, very good at measuring what it claims to measure.

Trolls gotta troll. Frank has nothing but his pathetic Straw Man.

I see the Imagination Game is still carrying on in the Pedalling Technique thread.

People should report his trolling so this forum can make progress.

 

[JamesCun]

Trolls gotta troll. Frank has nothing but his pathetic Straw Man.

I see the Imagination Game is still carrying on in the Pedalling Technique thread.

People should report his trolling so this forum can make progress.

I don't think the pedalling technique thread has any hope. Probably better to focus on preserving this thread for useful discussion.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Nobody has yet to show that any of this information makes any difference anyhow so how is it possible to say someone is "way behind" someone else who also hasn't demonstrated a difference in outcome?

It's been particularly useful in demonstrating what doesn't work.

 

[sittingbison]

Trolls gotta troll....People should report trolling so this forum can make progress.

correctomundo

cheers
bison

 

[FrankDay]

Opportunities for further study include, determination of threshold, determination of training stress scores, determination of anaerobic work capacity and the use of all those metrics to guide the coaching process.

Since you didn't like my thoughts regarding what would be a better thing to study regarding the power meter perhaps you could answer me these questions.

How would you design a study to look at any of the above (What would you compare?)? What would you hope to see (or predict) regarding guiding "the coaching process" as a result of your efforts?

 

[CoachFergie]

New products from an old player in the power meter game. Looks like a better mousetrap for a pedal based power meter.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/03/ ... ent_363677

 

[danielovichdk2]

I have a garmin edge device, the 510. It measures the effect from my vectors. Cool!

How do you guys dispaly your watt-effect on your devices ? I would like to an average ball park figure at all times, but I am not sure what I should select for the best precision. E.g when I need to ride an interval and watt should be between 350-400 for 5 minutes.

It's a bit frustration to look at the device and it gives you numbers from 150-600. I am missing an avarage setting here

Makes sense ?

 

[JamesCun]

I have a garmin edge device, the 510. It measures the effect from my vectors. Cool!

How do you guys dispaly your watt-effect on your devices ? I would like to an average ball park figure at all times, but I am not sure what I should select for the best precision. E.g when I need to ride an interval and watt should be between 350-400 for 5 minutes.

It's a bit frustration to look at the device and it gives you numbers from 150-600. I am missing an avarage setting here

Makes sense ?

Are you saying that you'd like to see a lap average or possibly a rolling average of the last 3/10/30sec? I typically have a 3sec avg displayed and a separate line or screen for lap details. Have a rolling average will reduce the spikes that you see, but might mask the effort you put in for shorter bursts.

 

[danielovichdk2]

I have a garmin edge device, the 510. It measures the effect from my vectors. Cool!

How do you guys dispaly your watt-effect on your devices ? I would like to an average ball park figure at all times, but I am not sure what I should select for the best precision. E.g when I need to ride an interval and watt should be between 350-400 for 5 minutes.

It's a bit frustration to look at the device and it gives you numbers from 150-600. I am missing an avarage setting here

Makes sense ?

Are you saying that you'd like to see a lap average or possibly a rolling average of the last 3/10/30sec? I typically have a 3sec avg displayed and a separate line or screen for lap details. Have a rolling average will reduce the spikes that you see, but might mask the effort you put in for shorter bursts.

good point! I will try to do that. Thx!

 

[dfawatts]

Hi,
Just introducing myself to the Powermeter Thread because I have only just got myself one. I realised that I needed to do something to improve my results and buying lighter bikes and/or components was never going to do the trick. The key is smarter training and pacing in events. I race crits and do some TTs as well as hill climbs and then cyclo-cross in the winter.

Until now, I've trained on my turbo with Trainer Road using virtual power and this became an excellent way of using data on the watts to asses performance and gains.

I've gone for a Stages 172.5 Shimano 105 which will sit on both my best bike and my winter bike. I'll need to do some modifications to other bikes to get it to work there too or....if budget allows and I start to see big benefits...invest in a second power meter.

Hope to be a reasonably active member of the thread and will start to read through what's been said before.

Dom

 

[sciguy]

Hi,
Just introducing myself to the Powermeter Thread because I have only just got myself one. I realised that I needed to do something to improve my results and buying lighter bikes and/or components was never going to do the trick. The key is smarter training and pacing in events. I race crits and do some TTs as well as hill climbs and then cyclo-cross in the winter.

Until now, I've trained on my turbo with Trainer Road using virtual power and this became an excellent way of using data on the watts to asses performance and gains.

I've gone for a Stages 172.5 Shimano 105 which will sit on both my best bike and my winter bike. I'll need to do some modifications to other bikes to get it to work there too or....if budget allows and I start to see big benefits...invest in a second power meter.

Hope to be a reasonably active member of the thread and will start to read through what's been said before.

Dom

Hi Dom,

Welcome to the forum. I'm certain that you'll find training and racing with a power meter very educational. Initially you'll find that what you think you're doing and what you're actually doing are often at great odds and a power meter will show that clearly. You'll soon find your sense of effort much better "calibrated" than pre-power meter.

I would recommend that you join the Google Wattage group and spend time hanging out there. It's not as troll infested as this forum with a greater signal to noise ratio in terms of useful information.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/wattage

Have fun sorting through the old posts.

Hugh

 

[FrankDay]

Troll - anyone who disagrees with what I say or who asks for evidence to support what I say. Yes, go to where the trolls aren't. You will learn a lot there.

 

[JamesCun]

Re:

Troll - anyone who disagrees with what I say or who asks for evidence to support what I say. Yes, go to where the trolls aren't. You will learn a lot there.

Look above...exhibit A