The Real Football Thread

[gooner]

Agree, BigMac.

@AlbineVespuzzio, See the Fancy Bears is relevant, you're making a judgement on the TUEs that those athletes have got. How do you know they are lying or that they are genuine? I could easily say based on your logic that you don't know the athletes personally or weren't part of their inner circle when those TUEs were applied for.

You're confused. In no instance have I made any personal judgement over someone I don't know. Go read your own post that started this, and look for distinctions, please.

Can we really comment on any sportsperson then going by your position?

You can do whatever you want. However, when you talk about someone like you know him, you risk having that pointed out to you.

I know what he has done and how he has behaved in football

 

[gooner]

Apparently its "naive" and "impulsive" for a medical professional to do her job.

And maybe Tito had the poke in the eye coming.

No wonder I didn't respond.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Agree, BigMac.

@AlbineVespuzzio, See the Fancy Bears is relevant, you're making a judgement on the TUEs that those athletes have got. How do you know they are lying or that they are genuine? I could easily say based on your logic that you don't know the athletes personally or weren't part of their inner circle when those TUEs were applied for.

You're confused. In no instance have I made any personal judgement over someone I don't know. Go read your own post that started this, and look for distinctions, please.

Can we really comment on any sportsperson then going by your position?

You can do whatever you want. However, when you talk about someone like you know him, you risk having that pointed out to you.

I know what he has done and how he has behaved in football

Like a winner and a very successful manager. Absurdly successful. That's pretty straightforward, yes. But it has no relation to what we were talking about, your sentiment.

And yet, maybe it has. If he's not defending the club one supports, his success usually means the unsuccess of our own. And that can generate sentiment on some people. It doesn't mean it's reasonable, though. It's just a game, in the end. Win some, lose some, no reason for hate. Sometimes people lose touch with reality, yes.

 

[gooner]

Like a winner and a very successful manager. Absurdly successful. That's pretty straightforward, yes. But it has no relation to what we were talking about, your sentiment.

And yet, maybe it has. If he's not defending the club one supports, his success usually means the unsuccess of our own. And that can generate sentiment on some people. It doesn't mean it's reasonable, though. It's just a game, in the end. Win some, lose some, no reason for hate.

Yet the position I have isn't one that I have for other successful Chelsea managers such as Ancelotti and Di Matteo. Or Mancini and Pellegrini with City when they won the league. It renders your point meaningless.

Sometimes people lose touch with reality, yes.

I agree, when you see him poking someone's eye, all sense of reality is gone.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Re:

Apparently its "naive" and "impulsive" for a medical professional to do her job.

You first tried to portray his comments regarding Carneiro as a reason for hate. Now that they've been transcribed here and shown to be innocuous, you're just concerned with their truth value. We can go there too, but I wonder: why are you changing your approach?

Do you accept your position gets weakened? If you can't stick with what you started why do you carry on, really?

And maybe Tito had the poke in the eye coming.

Yes, maybe. The facts are that the situation was resolved between the people involved: Mourinho and Tito. You want to have something to do with it, but yet, you don't. Just accept that.

No wonder I didn't respond.

Yes, you have no reasonable response.

 

[gooner]

I don't respond to rubbish on the indefensible.

Look at Wenger today saying he respects everyone.

That they don't say it publicly is to play the media off. The Caneiro thing wasn't. That was Mourinho's initial reaction caught on camera.

Read Balague's and Marti Perarnau's books on Pep. Pep was biting his tongue with Mourinho for sometime before he responded before the semi-final in the CL in 2011.

The comments and actions are there. It shows his true colours irrespective of what the situation is now. Hence why I have this opinion of him.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Like a winner and a very successful manager. Absurdly successful. That's pretty straightforward, yes. But it has no relation to what we were talking about, your sentiment.

And yet, maybe it has. If he's not defending the club one supports, his success usually means the unsuccess of our own. And that can generate sentiment on some people. It doesn't mean it's reasonable, though. It's just a game, in the end. Win some, lose some, no reason for hate.

Yet the position I have isn't one that I have for other successful Chelsea managers such as Ancelotti and Di Matteo. Or Mancini and Pellegrini with City when they won the league. It renders your point meaningless.

it could be the case you just don't perceive them as dangerous to your club. Ancelotti only won one title and was out soon enough. Matteo challenged for no title. But I don't know, I'm just guessing here, it could be the case you're just upset because Mourinho stole a title from Liverpool without having nothing to gain from it (except a match). That can upset some people, but still, he's just doing his job. Again, it's just a game.

In the end, I have no idea what makes you tick: it's you that should justify the hate if you think it's justifiable and you certainly haven't been able to do it. As it was expected, anyways. such strong feelings are rarely rational. it's how hate works.

Sometimes people lose touch with reality, yes.

I agree, when you see him poking someone's eye, all sense of reality is gone.

Over-sensitive again, are we? Dude, it's a viril sport. I told you before, if it shocks you that much, you should look for other forms of entertainment.

Dont click:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kPaOrn-Aec

 

[gooner]

Like a winner and a very successful manager. Absurdly successful. That's pretty straightforward, yes. But it has no relation to what we were talking about, your sentiment.

And yet, maybe it has. If he's not defending the club one supports, his success usually means the unsuccess of our own. And that can generate sentiment on some people. It doesn't mean it's reasonable, though. It's just a game, in the end. Win some, lose some, no reason for hate.

Yet the position I have isn't one that I have for other successful Chelsea managers such as Ancelotti and Di Matteo. Or Mancini and Pellegrini with City when they won the league. It renders your point meaningless.

it could be the case you just don't perceive them as dangerous to your club. Ancelotti only won one title and was out soon enough. Matteo challenged for no title. But I don't know, I'm just guessing here, it could be the case you're just upset because Mourinho stole a title from Liverpool without having nothing to gain from it (except a match). That can upset some people, but still, he's just doing his job. Again, it's just a game.

In the end, I have no idea what makes you tick: it's you that should justify the hate if you think it's justifiable and you certainly haven't been able to do it. As it was expected, anyways. such strong feelings are rarely rational. it's how hate works.

Sometimes people lose touch with reality, yes.

I agree, when you see him poking someone's eye, all sense of reality is gone.

Over-sensitive again, are we? Dude, it's a viril sport. I told you before, if it shocks you that much, you should look for other forms of entertainment.

Dont click:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kPaOrn-Aec

I have already justified it, with clear cut examples too. No amount of downplaying from you or making it something trivial will change that.

I'm not a Liverpool fan either. It has nothing to do with trophies.

I don't care what club he manages, my position still stands regardless.

You're adding arms and legs to comments to present a falsehood on my reasoning.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Re:

I don't respond to rubbish on the indefensible.

What?

Look at Wenger today saying he respects everyone.

What about it? You're not being coherent.

That they don't say it publicly is to play the media off. The Caneiro thing wasn't. That was Mourinho's initial reaction caught on camera.

I'm not following you. Try to collect your thoughts, please, and make a coherent sentence. What are you trying to say?

Read Balague's and Marti Perarnau's books on Pep. Pep was biting his tongue with Mourinho for sometime before he responded before the semi-final in the CL in 2011.

What are you trying to say now? Try to focus, be explicit. Reasons for hating Mourinho, that's what you have to answer for.

Remember, we are talking about a human being. And hate towards him.

The comments and actions are there. It shows his true colours irrespective of what the situation is now. Hence why I have this opinion of him.

I've responded to every single point, "comments and actions", you raised: mocking and calling naive to someone, that's what you had left. That's what you base your hate on. Think about it.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Like a winner and a very successful manager. Absurdly successful. That's pretty straightforward, yes. But it has no relation to what we were talking about, your sentiment.

And yet, maybe it has. If he's not defending the club one supports, his success usually means the unsuccess of our own. And that can generate sentiment on some people. It doesn't mean it's reasonable, though. It's just a game, in the end. Win some, lose some, no reason for hate.

Yet the position I have isn't one that I have for other successful Chelsea managers such as Ancelotti and Di Matteo. Or Mancini and Pellegrini with City when they won the league. It renders your point meaningless.

it could be the case you just don't perceive them as dangerous to your club. Ancelotti only won one title and was out soon enough. Matteo challenged for no title. But I don't know, I'm just guessing here, it could be the case you're just upset because Mourinho stole a title from Liverpool without having nothing to gain from it (except a match). That can upset some people, but still, he's just doing his job. Again, it's just a game.

In the end, I have no idea what makes you tick: it's you that should justify the hate if you think it's justifiable and you certainly haven't been able to do it. As it was expected, anyways. such strong feelings are rarely rational. it's how hate works.

Sometimes people lose touch with reality, yes.

I agree, when you see him poking someone's eye, all sense of reality is gone.

Over-sensitive again, are we? Dude, it's a viril sport. I told you before, if it shocks you that much, you should look for other forms of entertainment.

Dont click:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kPaOrn-Aec

I have already justified it, with clear cut examples too. No amount of downplaying from you or making it something trivial will change that.

I'm not a Liverpool fan either. It has nothing to do with trophies.

I don't care what club he manages, my position still stands regardless.

You're adding arms and legs to comments to present a falsehood on my reasoning.

I said I was guessing, it doesn't matter because I can't know what makes you tick, I can only try to extract it from you, which I've been trying to do, although unsuccessfully. Neither you nor I have been unable to understand what's really behind all that hate.

my position still stands

No, it doesn't stand. "She was naive and impulsive" and mocking people. That's what you had. The moment I said that's over-sensitivity, you stopped there. You cannot make that justify hate, because it doesn't.

 

[gooner]

Sigh.

That managers don't talk about their bad feelings in press conferences about other managers, doesn't mean all is good with them. They play the media off. See the Pep example on Mourinho where he bit his tongue for sometime before responding. He was being diplomatic like many other managers are in those situations.

Pep was diplomatic before the recent Manchester derby. Allardyce and Benitez were last season before the Newcastle v Sunderland game and they have history between them. They don't get on.

 

[gooner]

I said I was guessing, it doesn't matter because I can't know what makes you tick, I can only try to extract it from you, which I've been trying to do, although unsuccessfully. Neither you nor I have been unable to understand what's really behind all that hate.

Facepalm. I give up at this stage.

I have given numerous examples and you still wonder why I detest the man.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

I said I was guessing, it doesn't matter because I can't know what makes you tick, I can only try to extract it from you, which I've been trying to do, although unsuccessfully. Neither you nor I have been unable to understand what's really behind all that hate.

Facepalm. I give up at this stage.

I have given numerous examples and you still wonder why I detest the man.

You were unable to sustain it when I put the examples through scrutiny: you were just being over-sensitive. I don't think you're actually like that (because nobody is that sensitive in the real world, not even children), I think you have just been convinced that "his actions" and "his comments" are justifiable of hate, probably because you lack a filter when consuming media.

Like I said, mass media is very powerful.. I've been all afternoon trying to reason with you and I still can't say I've been successful.

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Re:

Sigh.

That managers don't talk about their bad feelings in press conferences about other managers, doesn't mean all is good with them. They play the media off. See the Pep example on Mourinho where he bit his tongue for sometime before responding. He was being diplomatic like many other managers are in those situations.

What they don't do is not proof of what they think or feel. You're imaging stuff that isn't there. Just read the narrative you've created in your mind. You think that because Arsene Wenger was/is regularly mocked by Mourinho (true) or Pep had an intense rivalry with him in Spain, they hate him, and that therefore, your hate (through Arsene and Pep) is justified. Lol, it's all in your head. "he was being diplomatic", "bit his tongue", listen to yourself, you're even making up excuses to justify why the hate that you see is not there.

You now not only invented the hate, you created also a reason for it not showing up!

Pep was diplomatic before the recent Manchester derby. Allardyce and Benitez were last season before the Newcastle v Sunderland game and they have history between them. They don't get on.

I have no idea if they get on or not, I think you're making that up too. Either way, you should be made aware "not getting on" is not the same as "hate".

 

[djpbaltimore]

You would be wrong.

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/jamie-carragher-reveals-the-origin-of-rafael-benitezs-feud-with-sam-allardyce-2/47899

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Re:

You would be wrong.

http://www.joe.co.uk/sport/jamie-carragher-reveals-the-origin-of-rafael-benitezs-feud-with-sam-allardyce-2/47899

That's why I said I had no idea if they get on or not. Either way, not interested. I don't know those two and it's not related to the subject, which is gooner's inability to justify his hate for someone he doesn't know, Mourinho.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Great, then maybe you shouldn't have put that little dig in at another poster if you didn't know what you were actually talking about.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

The problem here, gooner, I think, is that you can't distinguish reality from what is transmitted to you through media lenses.

You seem convinced that you actually know the man. Yet, you don't.

It's not an uncommon phenomenon, I get it, media today is very powerful. But that doesn't make your attitude a rational one. Think about it. Try to remember when you met Mourinho, surely you'll come up with a void, maybe realise that you have no basis on reality to make that personal judgement.

Actions define people. It's silly to suggest you need to actually know someone in order to have an opinion on their open affairs. You may need to know Mourinho so as to comment on his personal life. You don't need to know him to comment on his character and public persona. Unless you think he purposely portrays a degenerate version of his true self in the media for some reason?

gooner said he "detests the man". That's speaking like he knows him. Go read back, please.

Can he not detest him for what he's shown himself to be?

He can feel whatever he wants. Yet, it's still a sentiment not based on reality. He's trying to feel through the lenses of mass media, which is the mistake I'm pointing out. Look at him: he thinks calling someone naive is a reason for hate. lol, it's crazy!

Gooner even made you a list upthread. He could have gone on so many are the reasons.

To which I replied point by point, and he was unable to reply back. All nonsense: mocking and saying someone is naive and impulsive. He's either an over-sensitive person (beyond reasonable) or just not seeing things straight (I think it's the latter, like I said, mass media is a very powerful device, it has the power to make some people think they know people they don't).

Am I being punked? You seem to be fighting an imaginary argument / strawman you created in your head. Most of the reasons one can come up to dislike Mourinho are the result of his voluntary interaction with the public / actions he did in front of everyone. There's no ''media'' in that. There's no tabloid filter. People heard and seen this stuff without an intermediate. Did Spanish television live photoshop him poke the late Vilanova in the eye? Were we all deceived?

You responding with a video showing various football fights, to prove how common it is (not as common as you try pass it), has no relevance to the point. Just means there are some pretty nasty people in football apart from Mourinho. Do I think he's a dangerous person in that he'll actually beat the crap out of someone in the field? No. Do I think he's a petty and sometimes childish individual? Yes. Do I think he's arrogant and pompous? Definitely yes.

I think so because he proudly shows himself to be like that. Not because the media tells me he's an insufferable narcissist. Because the man goes to a flash interview and presents himself as such. He's the self-entitled Special One, afterall.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Agreed, Mourinho is pretty insufferable even when you are rooting for one of his teams (which I have done in the past). Now that he is at my least favorite club, it is like a perfect storm of sports hate.

 

[BullsFan22]

Can't we all just agree that Liverpool FC will win the domestic treble this year? Yes. Yes we can agree on that. YNWA.

 

[jsem94]

Lolno.

 

[BigMac]

That said, I can't seem to find many critics towards Conte The Tactical Genius anywhere. His Bari and Juventus work was laudable but I never understood the hype around his national team and found much of the praise misplaced, especially during the Euro. Lost three-nil to Arsenal.

In other news, a wild Pogba appears against Leicester.


PS: Rashford is a future Ballon d'Or winner.

 

[jsem94]

Cahill was so bad in that match wtf. I love seeing Arsenal play like this, it's amazing when they're at their best. Didn't understand the team selection seeing no Xhaka, no proper No. 9, but I guess I was proved wrong.

I think the Chelsea side he inherited, while they did win the league with Mou, were a shambles and it will take time to sort this mess out. He's brought in some players like Marcos Alonso and David Luiz, but they were last minute purchases and weren't what he was initially after. Whether he goes to a 3-5-2 or not will be interesting to find out. He's got the central midfielders to make it work with Kante, Matic and Fabregas/Oscar, but does he have the wingbacks? And what will happen to Willian and Hazard? Play Costa + Hazard in a free floating Del Piero role (drifting wide left), or Costa + Batshuayi? Cuadrado was a fantastic RWB for Juve last season and would have slotted in there so it made no sense selling him on either. I don't know what he's going to make of this. He will obviously have to do something different than he has done previously, and for God's sake find a way to work Fabregas into the squad. He's a world class player when he has time on the ball.

 

[Brullnux]

Cahill is awful in general

 

[gooner]

Re:

Cahill was so bad in that match wtf. I love seeing Arsenal play like this, it's amazing when they're at their best. Didn't understand the team selection seeing no Xhaka, no proper No. 9, but I guess I was proved wrong.

I think the Chelsea side he inherited, while they did win the league with Mou, were a shambles and it will take time to sort this mess out. He's brought in some players like Marcos Alonso and David Luiz, but they were last minute purchases and weren't what he was initially after. Whether he goes to a 3-5-2 or not will be interesting to find out. He's got the central midfielders to make it work with Kante, Matic and Fabregas/Oscar, but does he have the wingbacks? And what will happen to Willian and Hazard? Play Costa + Hazard in a free floating Del Piero role (drifting wide left), or Costa + Batshuayi? Cuadrado was a fantastic RWB for Juve last season and would have slotted in there so it made no sense selling him on either. I don't know what he's going to make of this. He will obviously have to do something different than he has done previously, and for God's sake find a way to work Fabregas into the squad. He's a world class player when he has time on the ball.

Credit to Wenger, I wasn't sure myself about Sanchez as a striker but it's working so far.

I agree about Conte. I think he is the right man. He needs a couple of seasons to get this team in his image. The thing is, he needed a couple of extra signings in the summer to help with that. Only Kante(poor today) has improved that team from last season. Batshuayi is back up to Costa, although a good one at that and I'm not sure Luiz was really a Conte signing. I wonder did that come down from above as they couldn't get Coulibaly from Napoli. I don't see much from Alonso either. Looking back at that press conference before the window ended, he looked very frustrated at lack of transfer activity. I see Luiz and Alonso as more panic buys.

He needs to have a good January and next summer to rebuild this squad. The summer just gone was a wasted opportunity to get going on it. Even if Chelsea come 5th or 6th I would stick with him. Put their faith in him.