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The Real Football Thread

Page 172 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Which is very probably why there is such a backlash and eagerness of people to "set it right". In a way I can understand it. I often feel like that myself with other celebrities, and I remember when I hadn't really seen Messi play in the early years and everyone was like "Messi, Messi", and I was rolling my eyes, and like "oh no, one of those over-hyped youngsters again". I also remember headlines like after a match against man city, "Messi defeats man city on his own" or something like that, which of course is ridiculous and disrespectful against the other players, even Messi is nothing without a team. Also there are some Messi fans who otherwise don't really care much about football.
So, yeah, I can understand that some people are annoyed by this. Two wrongs don't make it right, though. There seems to be a will to measure him by the standards of an angel, something pure and innocent, just football and joy and nothing else. Of course he fails then.
But you just need to read many comments - I'm not really active on social media, so I don't know about the talk there, but I see the articles written about him in German and British media, and I see the comments of people, and they are often full of hate and disgust, and then I honestly don't understand that. You don't have to love him (like me :D ), but he's not an evil person and the comments are often really ugly, and even the serious newspapers at least in Germany have an extremely negative view of him, making him seem like an evil, sneaky little ***, a little tyrann who controls everything, ruins other people's careers because he's jealous of them, doesn't offer much on the pitch but bankrupts Barcelona on his own with his unsatiable greed.
And I think all of that is very wrong, he's just some pretty nice guy who has his flaws like everyone else. And yes, I think the people who write about him like that are treating him badly. He's worshipped too much by some - but also really scapegoated by others.

Now I need to write about Barca's finances, as soon as I find the time. :)
I don't think it's reasonable to judge a players media treatment by a small minority of social media comments, which will be awful for any pro athlete of a certain stature.

What I see is PSG taking the absolute piss with the sport and literally buying a fandom and legitimacy and everyone is buying into it because it generates clicks. As for Messi, it's just really hard to feel sorry for a convicted tax fraud who makes so much money it literally bankrupted his club.
 
I came across this interview with Arsene Wenger yesterday from 2017, which I feel pins down the increasing irrationality of the markets perfectly.


This summer, the only question has been how fabulous a sum will you spend on a transfer. Neymar for €222m, Manchester City who have spent €150m for two full-backs. Is that all viable?

Yes. But before answering that question I want to ask another. What is the size of a football club? 30 years ago, it was defined by a number, the number of people who went to a club’s stadium on a Saturday afternoon. Today, it is still the amount of people that are attracted to a matchday but also the financial power of a club’s owners. And that is a fundamental change.

The revenues brought about by TV rights have changed too, but these revenues are shared amongst the 20 Premier League clubs in a very fair manner, that does not require any discussion at all. The real transformation, since about a dozen years ago, in England and elsewhere, is that the majority of owners are today foreigners. Sometimes billionaires, sometimes governments, states that have enough financial power to make the decision to buy Neymar for more than €200m.

What is the logic behind this type of decision?

They are doing it because it is a good thing for their country; because the club is a flag-bearer for a World Cup in 2022 in Qatar. The notion of “I spend as much as I earn,” no longer works. In terms of money, reason no longer takes hold when you want to buy a wing-back, it is the ego that takes over. It is “what will this purchase mean for our country in terms of promotion and advertising?” That is why I say that the market is becoming more irrational.

It does not seem very healthy all that.

Not really. When you manage you should be aware of the fact that when we say that Neymar will earn €30m a year net post taxes. Any you, you have to explain to others who are earning 5 or 10. Knowing that they will not necessarily accept that. The danger, in my view, is that we are making fragile what I love about football, to know that it is a team sport.

Today, football has become a business of individuals, in the image of our society that puts everything on the notion of a star, individual success, and less on what makes a team a team. You can ask if, today, Nottingham Forest could win the European Cup, like in 1979 and 1980. The answer is no.


You do not sound very optimistic…

You speak to an agent, he says to you: “Today, my player is earning €3m. But with all the money, TV rights and when we see what others are earning, now, we want €8m.” And us, we can’t raise someone’s salary by €5m like that. We quite simply do not have the financial capability to do that. That does not change their reasoning, because they are basing it on the assumption that inflation will continue. It is a very dangerous game. You can become trapped. If sources of revenue dry up, for example.
 
There are a bunch of pay drivers in motorsports, pay riders in cycling, both good and bad. I mean, you have people like Jean-Denis Délétraz, Giovanni Lavaggi and other notorious mobile chicanes who had no talent and paid for seats... but simultaneously you had people like Niki Lauda get their start as pay drivers. In cycling, while there may be many a Gabriel Muller or Ramón Carretero, there's also a guy like Alexis Vuillermoz, who had to stump up personal sponsorships to get a team but has more than justified his place at the top table, and also people who come with some baggage on a "pay me what I win you" deal, like Frank Vandenbroucke once did, and Cavendish more recently.

At the end of the day, Messi may not personally have bankrupted Barcelona, but the financial contortions they've had to make to keep their window of opportunity open in his prime, competing for talent against the bottomless money-pits of Middle Eastern oil teams like PSG and Manchester City, have. And don't you think they'd want to keep him if they could? He's been a huge part of their team, their brand, their identity for fifteen years.

But it takes two to tango. If Lionel Messi came up to the board and said, "you know what, I want to play out my days in Barcelona, if it will help the club out I'll play for almost nothing, I've earnt untold millions in my career, the sponsorships and image rights of Lionel Messi are worth millions in their own right, and I want to ensure that my legacy with the club is untarnished and the team can build for a future without me", they'd have bitten his hand off. Of course they would. I'm not saying that's what he should have done - because the market will pay a lot for Lionel Messi, and he has every right to maximise his earnings given the short careers that footballers have relative to the public at large. But if his wage demands - even when he agreed to a pay cut - are such that Barcelona literally cannot afford them without having a total fire sale of those same assets that are needed to drag them through the post-Messi years to avoid going under, then he has no right to be upset if they say "actually, Leo, I'm afraid it's just not worth it." Because if they sign Messi to an extension and can't comply with solvency rules, then they've got to sell off assets. And people know they've got to sell off assets and are going to low-ball them on every offer.

Barcelona have played this poorly from a PR standpoint, for sure, and blaming La Liga's solvency rules for a mess they got themselves into (when the mess Barcelona have got themselves into was precisely what those rules were brought in for) is another issue. Spending has got out of control, and with the pandemic hitting economies hard, creditors aren't as forgiving and the Spanish giants who've been protected from consequence for their overspending for years are suddenly finding that they're getting their comeuppance. And while although nobody saw the pandemic coming, Real seemingly saw the writing on the wall in terms of value for money and have affected something of a turnover of their ageing Galácticos, Barcelona had already lost most of theirs to retirement or sold on expensive replacements at a loss, and thereby, with Messi's contract winding down at the worst possible time, have backed themselves into a position where even he is no longer bulletproof if they want to keep the wolf from the door.
 
There are a bunch of pay drivers in motorsports, pay riders in cycling, both good and bad. I mean, you have people like Jean-Denis Délétraz, Giovanni Lavaggi and other notorious mobile chicanes who had no talent and paid for seats... but simultaneously you had people like Niki Lauda get their start as pay drivers. In cycling, while there may be many a Gabriel Muller or Ramón Carretero, there's also a guy like Alexis Vuillermoz, who had to stump up personal sponsorships to get a team but has more than justified his place at the top table, and also people who come with some baggage on a "pay me what I win you" deal, like Frank Vandenbroucke once did, and Cavendish more recently.

At the end of the day, Messi may not personally have bankrupted Barcelona, but the financial contortions they've had to make to keep their window of opportunity open in his prime, competing for talent against the bottomless money-pits of Middle Eastern oil teams like PSG and Manchester City, have. And don't you think they'd want to keep him if they could? He's been a huge part of their team, their brand, their identity for fifteen years.

But it takes two to tango. If Lionel Messi came up to the board and said, "you know what, I want to play out my days in Barcelona, if it will help the club out I'll play for almost nothing, I've earnt untold millions in my career, the sponsorships and image rights of Lionel Messi are worth millions in their own right, and I want to ensure that my legacy with the club is untarnished and the team can build for a future without me", they'd have bitten his hand off. Of course they would. I'm not saying that's what he should have done - because the market will pay a lot for Lionel Messi, and he has every right to maximise his earnings given the short careers that footballers have relative to the public at large. But if his wage demands - even when he agreed to a pay cut - are such that Barcelona literally cannot afford them without having a total fire sale of those same assets that are needed to drag them through the post-Messi years to avoid going under, then he has no right to be upset if they say "actually, Leo, I'm afraid it's just not worth it." Because if they sign Messi to an extension and can't comply with solvency rules, then they've got to sell off assets. And people know they've got to sell off assets and are going to low-ball them on every offer.

Barcelona have played this poorly from a PR standpoint, for sure, and blaming La Liga's solvency rules for a mess they got themselves into (when the mess Barcelona have got themselves into was precisely what those rules were brought in for) is another issue. Spending has got out of control, and with the pandemic hitting economies hard, creditors aren't as forgiving and the Spanish giants who've been protected from consequence for their overspending for years are suddenly finding that they're getting their comeuppance. And while although nobody saw the pandemic coming, Real seemingly saw the writing on the wall in terms of value for money and have affected something of a turnover of their ageing Galácticos, Barcelona had already lost most of theirs to retirement or sold on expensive replacements at a loss, and thereby, with Messi's contract winding down at the worst possible time, have backed themselves into a position where even he is no longer bulletproof if they want to keep the wolf from the door.

I don't think there's any serious discussion about whether Barca should have kept Messi - only possible by accepting the cvc deal I think, and I'm not advocating they should have taken that just to keep a 34 year old Messi when they are standing on the brink of the abyss.
What I don't like is the way Laporta has played this. The past year he made it seem like there was no problem with Messi's renewal. Before he was elected he was like "with me Messi will definitely stay, I will bring in Haaland... and so on". Then when he was in charge he was still behaving like "yeah, terrible what Bartomeu did to this club, but now we are starting better times again and by the way there's no problem with Messi's renewal at all". It's not more than a few weeks ago that he said there would be a few more signings (in addition to the four they have done).
So, Messi flies in, thinks things are sorted out and then he's told "no, doesn't happen, no chance."

So, basically, he never said "we are standing close to the abyss, if anything you will have to play for pretty much nothing".
Maybe he was hoping for some big solution. Super-league, later cvc, something like that. Or he was just sure they would eventually get rid of enough players like Umtiti so that the salary cap would be higher and their own wage bill lower.
Now we know they have serious problems of even registering their signings Depay and Garcia. I'm sure they will eventually find a solution, but it might be a really bad one, like paying Umtiti's wages at Benfica and Pjanic's wages at Juventus in full, selling Braithwaite for nothing, things like that.
Basically, Laporta is nothing but a politician, just like Bartomeu. It's all games and deals in the backrooms and promises nobody cares to keep - so, not really that much of a difference to Bartomeu.

Bartomeu was the worst president and his board the worst board, though, that any club could have. Do you really think he would have acted differently if Messi hadn't been there? That he would have acted responsibly? That all this headless gigantomania and the many medium-expensive but fruitless because stupid (like a thousand players that play on the same half wing-half 10-half 9) position, but by all means keep away from a good cb or fullback...) signings and contract-extensions was just to please Messi and the expectations that everyone had because of Messi?
Bartomeu has shown enough he doesn't care about Messi. Before the last treble he already wanted to sell him. Messi didn't get along very well with Luis Enrique, Enrique stayed until the two were okay with each other, then Enrique left because he wanted to. I think Messi didn't for instance enjoy playing with André Gomes very much, Gomes was on the pitch again and again. Messi said something about him wanting to talk to Bartomeu about something and Bartomeu was always like "yeah, yeah, we will talk about that tomorrow / another time" and just walked on, lol.
In the end we learned that Bartomeu even had this weird deal which should make some people like Messi look bad on social media... I mean a president who pays millions to vilify his players. :tearsofjoy:
So, do we really think Bartomeu cared about Messi's wishes?
Do we think that getting Dembélé for far more than 100 million for instance was about Messi wanting a strong team or the board wanting to make use of Messi's prime years? I'm pretty sure it was mostly about a hurt ego and appeasing the fans (and voters) because PSG had snatched Neymar from them like that, after Bartomeu had said that's never gonna happen and was also ridiculed for a rather "low" stipulation in Neymar's contract.
I think Bartomeu was always looking for the next big signing which would please the fans who were demanding that - I have read enough comments of some Barca fans in the past days, already thinking about Haaland again, saying how the club should get him next year... And I suppose if there was any money to be spend, if it was possible with the salary cap, Laporta would do everything to give Haaland to them - although what the club really needs, since years, are defenders. That has nothing to do with Messi. It's what a president of a club does as long as it's possible, when he knows he needs to be elected and everyone demands big signings.

In that regard, the rich owners of some clubs can be a blessing for those clubs, especially if they don't care much about the sport itself and just put someone in charge who has good knowledge (like Guardiola or Tuchel or Klopp) and let that guy decide how they want to play and which players they need for that. Barca after Guardiola never went for such a coach. They went for coaches ready to work with the players they were given, and also only people with "Barca DNA", even if that only means to have played for Barca for one season once...
Yeah, they were really full of themselves, with all their talk about their history and their DNA... They reached the absolute pinnacle of football under Guardiola with the way they played, the way they made people enthusiastic, their successes. And they - club and fans - were never willing to step back from that, and of course, honestly, it's not easy. The youngsters they tried to fit in from La Masia just didn't work out - now there are suddenly a few great guys coming up again, Pedri and Fati, if he comes back as strong as he was before his injury, look like the real deal. But before that there was actually a bit of a drought, the players were not bad, but not breathtaking either. And of course people wanted breathtaking football from the club after they had seen the Guardiola years. So, it would have been necessary from the club to say "sorry, it is IMPOSSIBLE, we are in NO position at all to do this financially, we have to rely on players like Alena, otherwise we will go down". A good chance for the fans and socis being very unsatisfied and not very understanding, though, when it looked like they might fall behind Real and PSG and City and Liverpool already...

The one thing that might have changed things for the better without Messi though is the coach. I don't know about that. Maybe they would actually have looked for a really good coach, although I'm not sure about that either, because I'm sure Messi would have liked Pocchettino last year for instance, but they declined Poch and went for Koeman... Barca DNA. (Not that Koeman is a bad coach, but if it works out it surely isn't because they knew what they were doing...they were just looking for a club legend willing to accept their terms.)

In the end, I think they are going to be okay on a sportive level. Ter Stegen, de Jong, Pedri, Fati, Dembélé, Griezmann,... (and Dest is better than what they had). Personally I think Garcia will be their most important signing now. I think they are still missing a really physical midfielder (I don't mean a fighter like Vidal and not an ultra-polyvalent but undertalented Roberto, but someone like Wijnaldum indeed), and some back-ups for their defenders since Lenglet, as nice as he is just makes too many mistakes and Umtiti, who was so great, is half-invalide.
But with a bit of luck things can work out well for them. It will be tough against the ultra-competition that some other teams in Europe have formed, though, also against the wow-team of Atletico.
 
Well, the problem is that a manager has to earn that respect and kudos to be given that freedom without the meddling from above. After Guardiola (although he's kind of been exposed as people have figured out that his style is actually pretty negative and dirty, predicated on ensuring you have the majority possession by making countless deliberate fouls made as soon as possession is given away) the job was kind of a poisoned chalice, with much of the core (Iniesta, Xavi, Puyol etc.) aging out, so it wasn't as attractive a job as you might think to the big names. Then you have the whole commitment to not just continuing to win, but continuing to win in aesthetically-pleasing manner (precluding bringing in, say, a Mourinho-type), and with the players coming through from La Masia not replacing the aging core of homegrown talent, to keep up at the top level necessitated bringing in more talent they were having to pay for. The club has never truly replaced Puyol at the heart of the defence, but defenders don't usually make good marquee signings, hence the focus is always on getting the big name forwards and supporting cast around Messi.

The team was high on the Super League concept because they realised that the financial situation they'd got themselves into was unsustainable and they were unwilling to consider rebuilding, so they needed something that would guarantee them a consistent source of income. This despite the fact they make more money than anybody from TV money and so forth in Spain (unlike the EPL or Bundesliga, the TV rights are negotiated by the individual teams in Spain, so Barcelona and Real make considerably more than anybody else) - but because they overspent in pursuit of those lucrative Champions' League money matches, they needed a way to guarantee those lucrative TV matches in case they had to face the same financial realities that the rest of the league have to annually (and preferably guaranteeing they would be money-spinning matches, don't want to risk having to face a team that isn't backed by oligopoly money like they might have to in the normal Champions' League).

For a lot of us who support teams who go through the regular ups and downs that the vast majority of football teams go through, though, it's hard to feel sympathy for a team that has behaved so arrogantly, spent so recklessly, plunderied various teams and which has enjoyed a huge amount of preferential treatment, discovering that they aren't as bulletproof as they thought.
 
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You guys heard that Cristiano Ronaldo signed for Manchester United? That's pretty crazy. Of course I have a family reunion tomorrow so I will not be able to watch his first game back home :cry:

In other news, FIFA want to run the World Cup every two years. I cannot express how much I hate that idea. Luckily, both UEFA and CONMEBOL do too, so I hope it is unlikely to come to pass.
 
Yeah, I realised that when you declared your love for Messi a while ago...

It was such a gut punch that I couldn't even respond :(

I assume it's not because you want to have World Cups all the time.

I want to have World cups every few months, because I want to see Messi lose all the time win one!
Naah, what a ridiculous project, nobody wants it, players and coaches should simply boycott it unanimously if it goes through.
 
I was trying to find some good (more than line-ups and a betting tip) previews (and would later like some good analyses from a more objective point of view (no fan-sites)) for the upcoming Champions league games. The websites I went to in the past have all changed, are now behind paywalls, have stopped covering international matches and so on. Some articles are free on between the posts, but even for abo I can't find match previews there.
So... any recommendations? I like to read, not a fan of videos or podcasts.
Thank you... :)
 
Small question about the Bundesliga - when living in Germany in the late 70s my fave team (and my dad's), was F.C. Bayern because we lived in Bavaria and I liked their team colors. Since moving to the States I haven't really kept up with football much, but my dad still insists on watching F.C. Bayern matches, I had to specifically subscribe to ESPN+ because regular American TV mainly airs the Premiership. So my question...

What is F.C. Bayern's reputation in Europe like these days? Are they so dominant as to be disliked?
 
Small question about the Bundesliga - when living in Germany in the late 70s my fave team (and my dad's), was F.C. Bayern because we lived in Bavaria and I liked their team colors. Since moving to the States I haven't really kept up with football much, but my dad still insists on watching F.C. Bayern matches, I had to specifically subscribe to ESPN+ because regular American TV mainly airs the Premiership. So my question...

What is F.C. Bayern's reputation in Europe like these days? Are they so dominant as to be disliked?

I think in Europe they have a good reputation - they are strong, but not dominant, and they have a very steady financial policy, no super-rich owner, not state sponsored, no crazy buying. They are very proud of being "sensible" with their finances. They don't get into big arguments with other clubs over players who want to leave or join either. I don't think they have many non-German fans across Europe because they are lacking the flair and the big super-stars for that - even Lewandowski seems more respected than adored. But they are not among the hated clubs either.
It's different in Germany, where they have a huge fanbase all across Germany, but are also very much hated, the most hated club by far, because they buy the best from all the other German clubs, especially Dortmund, and, recently, Leipzig, where they also got their coach Nagelsmann from. They are totally dominant financially and sportive, so...
This is a quite well known song by a big German band, one of Jürgen Klopp's favourites. ;)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LHGY33cFiE


google translation:
There isn't much in this world
What you can stick to
Some say love
Maybe there is something to it
And it still remains God
When you have no one else
Others don't believe in anything
Life made them hard
So much can happen
So much can happen
There is only one thing I know for sure
I would never go to Bavaria in my life
I mean if I were twenty
And super talented
And Real Madrid would have knocked
And the guys from Manchester
And I would have played for Germany too
And would be mentally in top shape
And Uli Hoeneß would be with me
Stand on the mat
I wouldn't open my door
Because it's out of the question for me
With people like Bayern
To screw up your character
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
Let's just make that clear
So that we are properly understood
We have nothing against Munich
We would just never go to Bayern
Does something really have to be like that?
Ain't life too good
Throwing yourself away like that
And to go to Bayern?
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
What kind of parents do you have to have?
To be so depraved
Sign a contract
At this shitty club?
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
(Never go to Bayern!)
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
(Never go to the *** Bavarians)
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
(Never go to Bayern!)
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
 
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I think in Europe they have a good reputation - they are strong, but not dominant, and they have a very steady financial policy, no super-rich owner, not state sponsored, no crazy buying. They are very proud of being "sensible" with their finances. They don't get into big arguments with other clubs over players who want to leave or join either. I don't think they have many non-German fans across Europe because they are lacking the flair and the big super-stars for that - even Lewandowski seems more respected than adored. But they are not among the hated clubs either.
It's different in Germany, where they have a huge fanbase all across Germany, but are also very much hated, the most hated club by far, because they buy the best from all the other German clubs, especially Dortmund, and, recently, Leipzig, where they also got their coach Nagelsmann from. They are totally dominant financially and sportive, so...
This is a quite well known song by a big German band, one of Jürgen Klopp's favourites. ;)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LHGY33cFiE


google translation:
There isn't much in this world
What you can stick to
Some say love
Maybe there is something to it
And it still remains God
When you have no one else
Others don't believe in anything
Life made them hard
So much can happen
So much can happen
There is only one thing I know for sure
I would never go to Bavaria in my life
I mean if I were twenty
And super talented
And Real Madrid would have knocked
And the guys from Manchester
And I would have played for Germany too
And would be mentally in top shape
And Uli Hoeneß would be with me
Stand on the mat
I wouldn't open my door
Because it's out of the question for me
With people like Bayern
To screw up your character
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
Let's just make that clear
So that we are properly understood
We have nothing against Munich
We would just never go to Bayern
Does something really have to be like that?
Ain't life too good
Throwing yourself away like that
And to go to Bayern?
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
What kind of parents do you have to have?
To be so depraved
Sign a contract
At this shitty club?
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
(Never go to Bayern!)
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
(Never go to the *** Bavarians)
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
(Never go to Bayern!)
We would never go to Bayern Munich!
Great song and video, I see Die Toten Hosen (and some of the comments below the vid) have some strong feelings about F.C. Bayern. :tearsofjoy:

Thanks for the info BR, it's nice to catch up with what used to be part of my youth.
 
The Messi-PSG marriage fallout will be fun to see, on sunday was only the third match but when he was subbed off his face showing extreme disbelief about what was going on was priceless to see and then he started crying on the bench like a little kid that was robbed of his toy. Now we are already at the diplomatic injury phase to avoid sitting on the bench for normal rotations when you play two times per week, hard for him not being the supreme dictator anymore.
 
The Messi-PSG marriage fallout will be fun to see, on sunday was only the third match but when he was subbed off his face showing extreme disbelief about what was going on was priceless to see and then he started crying on the bench like a little kid that was robbed of his toy. Now we are already at the diplomatic injury phase to avoid sitting on the bench for normal rotations when you play two times per week, hard for him not being the supreme dictator anymore.

Here we go again. Cries like a child, dictator. :rolleyes:
 
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I know the photo. He was upset, he shouldn't be, especially since he was actually injured, but then there are so many players upset when they get subbed off. A reaction, def not perfect, but absolutely normal within football.
I watched the whole match, he didn't have any problem, he was just bad and taking out him was the winning move. The injury is just "diplomatic" stuff to avoid going to the bench for rotations.
 
ha ha! i almost wish messi was gonna play in PL after all.....we have a song 'he's gonna cry in
a minute.....cry in a minute'

although that is normally reserved for injured players of the opposition

Mark L
He would have been destroyed there, they run like crazy for the whole match and it's years that he walk around the pitch. Would have been like when Pirlo went to NY and everyone and their mothers were running over him.
 
The whole cyclingnews forum is such a nasty place right now. I used to like it a lot because it's well moderated and the discussion level is above that of most sports forums, but in the past weeks it's getting uglier and uglier. I'm out for a while.
Nobody is saying that Messi isn't a legend of the game or a great footballer or even that they hate him (although I'm sure some do), but there is definitely a touch of Schadenfreude, especially on the part of people who support smaller teams for whom relegation, financial losses and top clubs buying up any top talent they produce (often just to sit them on the bench to make sure said player doesn't help their team upset the apple cart à la Leicester City) are part of the everyday scenery, at seeing a player who has been untouchable for well over a decade, and a team that has spent way beyond its means, insulated from consequence of their actions, suddenly having to learn what it's like for the rest of the footballing world and having to adapt their expectations accordingly.

Messi has always hated being substituted, even in games where the team is well up and it would be common sense to bring him off and preserve him for other games to prevent injury, but it's been a long time since he has had to play a role in an ensemble cast, especially one where he is not the clear star attraction, and certainly the experience of just having an off day and the team deciding to take him off for the good of the team is not one that he will be used to, but most players have those days and know only too well that feeling, but are better at rolling with the punches because to somebody of less status than Messi, that's just something you gotta deal with right from the start of your career. He's learning how that feels for the first time 15 years into his career.
 

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