The Real Football Thread

[Descender]

Should we open a Euro 2012 thread?

 

[Nielsa]

Why not, to separate the Euro chat from silly season/mercato chat.

 

[the asian]

yr. separate thread would be better.

 

[Christian]

I think I remember reading something like that.

BTW. If Manchester Utd buy Kagawa, I hope it's because they want to use him in the team, not just for selling shirts.
Anyone remember Inamoto in Arsenal? He barely played for them, but Arsenal sold enough shirts in Japan to cover his transfer fee+++.

Kagawa is a much better player than Inamoto though, so I suspect they're genuinely interested in his footballing qualities.

Kagawa is a great player, definitely one of the absolute best in the Bundesliga of the last two years. I really believe he can make a similar impact in England!

 

[Amsterhammer]

Brazil-Argentina 3-4

Messi hattrick - the winner is yet another out-of-this-world Messi special.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww7TENIsWE0

 

[palmerq]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18407309

I like this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxkMy9JvXI

 

[Nielsa]

I guess Sky subscribers can expect price hikes?

 

[The Hitch]

Sky Sports News say Redknapp is gone from Chelsea.

Just 2 days ago he denied rumours that he was leaving very strongly.

What the **** is wrong with this guys head?

 

[The Hitch]

Big news for Premiership TV rights in the UK. Sky have won the rights to 116 games but the big surprise is that BT have won the rights to 38 games. Another shock is that ESPN have no games now. An extra £1.25bn is being paid for these rights compared to the one existing. Absoluletely staggerring. The clubs are laughing all the way to the bank. This will probably effect us over here in Ireland as well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18430036

So players wages are going to get even more ridiculous?

I can see the first £1 million a week players landing in manchester in the near future.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Sky Sports News say Redknapp is gone from Chelsea.

Redknapp? Chavscum? Think you got your clubs mixed up.

Di Matteo confirmed as Chavscum manager, Jaaskelainen signs for West Ham.

 

[the asian]

Redknapp leaving Spurs is confirmed. Apparently they are targeting Moyes as their next one. Laudrup has been appointed as manager as Swansea, so we should see the same style continuing.

 

[greenedge]

I can't believe the Spurs fired Harry, it seems odd.

 

[pmcg76]

I had no connection living in Cork when I started following Arsenal here. pmcg76 criticises me for not having this connection when I was 9 but he then goes on to say he would of had no problem with me supporting Everton and A.Villa even though I would of also had no connection with them from where I live. Hypocrite of the highest order is what he is.

He then said Hoeness complains all the time about clubs who compete with Bayern but Hoeness has'nt said one word against Dortmund who have put up the biggest challenge to them domestically for years in Germany. He said Hoeness complains about Leverkusen and the buying of the Brazillians and he mentions Cafu in his post. Cafu never played with Leverkusen. He does'nt even have the facts when debating his points.

He said he was delighted City beat United to the league and then claims to stick up for the lesser clubs. It is this enormous insane spending by Chelsea and City to get this success which drives up the wages in football and makes it difficult for chairman like Dave Whelan and Phil Gartside to keep their clubs on the right road without going into debt. Again contradicting by him.

He said I have a problem with competition for my club yet I have no problem with United wtih their CL win in 99 and 08 and Liverpool in 05. That is because they did it financially self-sufficient and not like Chelsea who financially cheated their way to it. I respect United and Liverpool for this. Chelsea are worth £400m-£500m as a club but Abramovich has spent over a billion in 9 years to get this CL. That is financial doping for me. Do the maths.

2 years ago City's turnover was £132m but their annual wage bill was £133m. Add in the transfer fees and how much more over turnover would they of been. If Arsenal or Liverpool did what Chelsea and City did they would go out of existence.

All he does is accuse me of being a bandwagon supporter even though he does'nt know me personally. In fact he accuses all fans in Ireland of being bandwagon supporters as if he knows all of them personally. Whatever. That just seems his comeback when he is backed into a corner.

Another thing pcmg, stop sounding like Pat Dolan and Eamon Dunphy.

As all the Lance fanboys say nowadays, this is ancient history now and people dont care anymore, however I have been busy with more urgent matters the last month and never got around to responding to this stuff.

Firstly I never said you should support any English soccer team, I said its amazing how when people do choose to follow a team, its always one of the big clubs as opposed to the mid-ranking/lesser teams. That is not hypocritical. Personally I dont mind guys following a club in England but the levels people take it to in Ireland is unreal, especially teams from places they have zero connection. Kids I undestand but grown adults!!!

What is different about a young kid choosing to support Chelsea nowadays than when you started supporting Arsenal. Do you think a 9 year old cares about how Chelsea bought titles. The majority of people I see wearing Chelsea jersies in Ireland are in the 8-17 bracket which conincides with when they started winning things. You are the one being hypocritical now accusing them of being glory hunters.

I think I know what I am talking about when I generalise for Irish fans supporting English teams. What % of soccer fans in Ireland dont support one of the big clubs, somewhere between 1-5% I would imagine. I live in Ireland, I see my friends, colleagues etc so I know the score unless you are trying to tell me things are somehow different down in Cork than other parts of the country. I would say 95% of football supporters in Ireland are supporting a club because of its success, therefore riding the bandwagon.

Imagine that, I mixed Cafu up with Juan, another Brazilian player, how terrible. My genreal point stands about Leverkusen buying Brazilians cheap and then selling them on for big money. Munich are the biggest club in Germany and they dont want that to change, other clubs might occassionally challenge them but Bayern will always be up there and are the biggest financially which is what its all about.

In football terms, Man City were an underdog, they just now have the money to match the top-dogs. As winning is about having the money, I like to see the underdogs have their day in the sun regardless of how they get their money. That is my whole point really.

There was originally a long spiel here but I decided to re-edit to keep it shorter. Your basic argument is this.

I chose to support Arsenal who are one of the historically biggest, richest, most well-supported and successful clubs in England and we are able to afford to buy our way to success and that is fair. This of course applies to the likes of United and Liverpool also.

However clubs like Wigan, Bolton, Norwich should not be allowed to buy their way to success as they are not as big, rich or as historically successful as Arsenal. Only the clubs who can afford to buy success i.e the big clubs should be allowed to buy success.

The problem with other smaller, lesser clubs gaining money to buy titles is unfair becasue it means more competition for my team which is doubly unfair because those clubs are not big, rich successful and never will be. Its not fair I tell you and we should introduce the Financial fairness system as it will mean the smaller clubs stay in their place and have no chance of success.



I dont see how that is any different from the current situation of the clubs with the biggest budgets winning except it would restrict all other clubs from ever having the possibility of challenging for anything. Arsenal have restricted their spending in recent times and won nothing, as they have kept spening in check they are in a prime position to capitalise whilst other clubs sort themselves out so of course you love this idea. Dont pretend its because it will be better for the game or somehow fairer. Its not.

Football was not any easier on the smaller clubs before the likes of Chelsea and City and dont pretend it was. How often did an English team other than Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool compete in the CL before Chelsea got the money?

There is only one fair way for football to be somewhat equal and that is to run it along the lines of the NFL with equal salary caps for all clubs regardless of size and I have already highlighted that. Unfortunately I know that will never happen because it contravenes European law but I bet anything that the big clubs would reject such a move if it was ever muted as it would increase the likelihood of the big clubs losing their power. Money and power will always dominate regardless of the current situation or if the Financial fair play is introduced and thats the way the likes of Arsenal or Bayern like it until some other worthless club starts encroaching on their territory.

As for sounding like Dolan or Dunphy, I never see or read anything to do with Dolan and have no clue what he has to say about the English game as for Dunphy, I dont even watch CL that often but he does speak a lot of rubbish but sometimes he speaks the truth also. I know and have read enough to form my own opinion, its just that I am not biased like the average glory hunter.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Athletic Bilbao have announced the signing of Aritz Aduriz from Valencia.

This is positive in that he is one of few forwards available for them, but then he's been at the club before; perhaps he'll fit in better with the newer playing style however.

It also offers a contingency plan for Llorente leaving, but I have to say, though I like Aduriz, he's not in the same league goal-wise and goals from non-Llorente sources seem to be a bit of a problem for Athletic.

 

[l.Harm]

BBC journalist says on Twitter there will be a deal between City and Arsenal for 26 million euro's. Juventus is interested, too. But City got the money ofc.

 

[the asian]

Gazzetta Dello Sport said the other day that Juve had a bid of 10m euros rejected for him which is a laughable offer.

Do you have a link to that BBC journalist?

I have looked around at a few BBC journalist twitter acounts and could'nt find it.

How many years is left on Van Persie's contract? Usually the Transfer price between two Premier league clubs will be higher than a one between a EPl and continental club.
Anyway there will be some good strikers for cheap in the market coz if City gets Van Persie they will have to offload Tevez, Adebayor, possibly Dzeko and that young Swedish guy.

 

[the asian]

Just one year left on his contract. I don't think Wenger will be happy one bit with RVP going public like this and questioning the club's ambition. That does'nt help Arsenal when they are trying to attract new players.

Wow! If City are going to offer 26 Million Euros for a guy who has only one year left in his contract, Arsenal should sell him in a heart beat.
Juve's offer is just about the right price. City are paying way too overs for him.

 

[l.Harm]

Gazzetta Dello Sport said the other day that Juve had a bid of 10m euros rejected for him which is a laughable offer.

Do you have a link to that BBC journalist?

I have looked around at a few BBC journalist twitter acounts and could'nt find it.

http://twitter.com/#!/garbosj

 

[l.Harm]

Pff I'm very curious. He's a good manager but he can't deal with personalities. Sneijder, Van Persie, Huntelaar Could be a big failure.

 

[the asian]

Pff I'm very curious. He's a good manager but he can't deal with personalities. Sneijder, Van Persie, Huntelaar Could be a big failure.

It's his way or the Highway. He also likes to give chances to youngsters. If senior players clash with him, he'll definitely drop them.

 

[pmcg76]

Pcmg 76,

The idea that Chelsea were a lesser team is rubbish. Granted they did'nt win the league since the 50's but they were always in and around the top 5 in the years before Abramovich took over. In 1999 they finished 3rd in the league 4 points behind a United team that won the treble and also won the FA Cup in 2000. If anyone is interested in the business side of the game, the Swiss Ramble is a great and respected site and writes about all the finances of the major clubs and leagues in football.

http://swissramble.blogspot.ie/

You still dont get it!!! I want to know how this FFP will make the game more fair and which clubs will benefit most from it.

You talked about Chelsea spending big pre Abramovich which is kinda my point. The only way they could compete with Utd/Arsenal or Liverpool was to try and match or outspend them financially. Of course this put them in huge debt as they are not as big as those clubs and thus cannot sustain such expenditure and run the risk of going out of business or going the way of Leeds who also grossly overspent chasing the dream.

Before the late 90s, Chelsea were a mid ranking medium sized club capable of the odd cup run, they were even relegated in the late 80s but bounced back first time. Once the PL started and money came into the game, the only way for a medium to small club to match the likes of the big boys was to spend, spend, spend. It didnt bring Chelsea a title but it did bring them from mid-table regulars to CL qualifiers whilst almost bankrupting them.

In my eyes, all the FFS is doing is handing the power back to those big clubs all over Europe thus making it impossible for the small to medium clubs to have any chance of competing as they will never have the same revenue streams as the big clubs. Maybe to you that is somehow more fair but to me it just makes things less competitive as it reduces the number of teams who can realisitcally compete for titles etc.

I would be the first to say the spending in football is grossly out of control but has been like that for a long time. All FFP does is put a cap on expenditure which is not a bad thing but it DOES not make things fairer or more compeitive which is what I dont like.

What I view as fair is the NFL system and no, not the relegation matter which I know you were aware thats not what I was referring to. What is fair is giving all clubs an equal budget regardless of size. It will never happen in Europe as it contravenes EU law and the big clubs would never accept it anyway.

Perhaps instead of introducing FFP, maybe UEFA should look at reducing the Champions league back to what it was pre 90s. If there was one competition that has helped distort football it has been the CL.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

The terry court case is interesting. lots of c*** reference going on lol

 

[al_pacino]

The terry court case is interesting. lots of c*** reference going on lol

With that person in the dock thats the only word you can start with.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

A former national team captain can say "**** off, **** off, yeah, yeah and you ****ing black ****, ****ing knobhead" and not be found guilty of racism by a court.

 

[Machu Picchu]

A former national team captain can say "**** off, **** off, yeah, yeah and you ****ing black ****, ****ing knobhead" and not be found guilty of racism by a court.

I doubt a british athlete would say something like that, you forget that if he did then he'd have let down everyone, his family, his kids, teammates, people he's worked with, his coach....