The Real Football Thread

[gooner]

If you read the article though, the two clubs with the highest cash balances also have the highest debts.

UEFA spoke about this back around 2007/2008 and highlighted Arsenal and B.Munich as clubs that others should run their business like. Financial Fair Play allows for clubs to build up debt if it's used in the building of infrastructure in the club like stadiums, academies and so on. They are allowances made for it and it gives clubs the chance to explore this opportunity without falling foul of it. UEFA in the past in the early days of the Emirates referred to the debt that Arsenal have as a good one where it is manageable over a lengthy longer period due to a new stadium built. They can't pay up this debt too early as Hill-Wood(the chairman who left recently) said there are penalties if they were do so. Nevertheless, Arsenal could easily spend anything up to close £100m and not still be nowhere near in difficulty with that cash reserves.

 

[gooner]

That was a disgrace. What a poor manager Wenger has turned into and watching the game live today at home, I felt embarrassed to be a fan of such a club. A club that robs it's fans with the highest season tickets in football but refuse to pay the market value for players because Wenger in all his wisdom has these stubborn values which is hindering the progress of the club going forward.

No top manager would be stubborn enough to dither in a transfer market which he has significant funds of 70m pounds where the squad is in serious need of investment with obvious deficiencies. Even the dogs in the street know the problems in this squad but Wenger knows best and can do no wrong. The man is just living off his past glories and if that was any other manager performing like this, he would be getting it in the neck right now from the British media. What a disgusting club it has turned into where the owner sees it as a profit making exercise where he is happy to build up the price of the club in order to make a huge surplus when he does decide to sell. No wonder he loves Wenger, he fits right in with his agenda in all this.

That's all I will say for now. I have a lot more to get off my chest but I'm not going to waste my breath anymore on this lot.

 

[darwin553]

Woohoo Southampton 4th on the ladder!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Look at La Liga! What a beautiful league table that is. Of course it would be nicer if they swapped the top 2 around, but Real had the advantage of playing at home. Still, a nice start to the Valverde era, and seems Etxebarria's settling in almost instantaneously at his new home.

 

[Alphabet]

Wenger has been conning the Arsenal fans for a good half decade now. Let's not forget that aside from simply failing to transfer in quality (and in recent years, buy anything at all) players, he has sold players for relative pittances. Thierry Henry in 2007/08- Darren Bent (!) cost more than Henry did that window. Arsenal would have won the league that year, I feel, if they had retained Henry- who was still world class and scored around 30 goals for Barcelona. Arsenal led the league for a long time, up until February, where they were 5 points clear with 12 matches to play.

Henry's leadership skills, experience, as well as pure talent and confidence would either have meant that the gap to Man United would have been larger when Arsenal's form collapsed, or that the collapse's impact could have been minimised.

 

[Cyivel]

Osvaldo to Southampton for £15m, good signing I think.

 

[gooner]

Wenger has been conning the Arsenal fans for a good half decade now.

Agree totally. He is the Alastair Campbell of football management. '4th place is a trophy'. His press conferences these past few weeks are just right along these spin doctoring lines. Coming out asking journalists who were questioning him about the transfer inactivity to tell him which players who were available that are better than what he has. Let me think, I suppose Higuain isn't better than Giroud, Wanyama or Capoue as a recognised specialist defensive midfielder and Begovic as goalkeeper when the two you have currently have been proven to be nowhere near good enough after getting more than sufficient chances to prove otherwise. He's f***** up this summer with his dithering and he has way too much power with no accountability or reproach from the board no matter what he does. This isn't some personal pet hobby for Arsene Wenger to use Arsenal as a platform to put his out of date realist policies on us where he is obsessed with value in the market. All this has costed us transfer target after transfer target and I can't see much left in the market now for us to attain. Begovic would be a super signing but Wenger is too miserly to spend the 10m-15m. Just look back in 2010 when he wouldn't go above 2m for Schwarzer even though Fulham wanted only 4m. We're not going to win jack **** with this attitude and it's disgusting to do so while charging fans the highest prices in the game. Another player would be Sakho with PSG who I heard wants out as he's behind Alex and Thiago Silva in the pecking other. I wouldn't hold my breath.

It may sound like I'm ranting but this feeling is widespread among Arsenal fans currently. AST(fans with share holding in the club) have issued a statement today wanting contract talks with Wenger to be put on hold. BSM(biggest Arsenal fan's group) also wrote a letter to Gazidis the chief executive last night. Lady Nina Bracewell Smith repeated again yesterday she regrets now selling her shares to Kroenke in 2011. The club is a shambles and it's culpable right across the whole of the club.

The media too have finally see through all this. I was watching the Sunday Supplement earlier this morning and Shaun Custis with the Sun said he thinks he could be gone by September if they lose to Fenerbahce in the Champions League qualifiers. Henry Winter with The Telegraph and Andy Dunn with the Sunday Mirror were also forceful in his criticism of him. If he does lose to Fenerbahce I think he's done for. That means some of the huge funds he has for transfers will be used to cover the loss of potential Champions League revenue. No way could I see him getting away with that.

Let's not forget that aside from simply failing to transfer in quality (and in recent years, buy anything at all) players, he has sold players for relative pittances. Thierry Henry in 2007/08- Darren Bent (!) cost more than Henry did that window. Arsenal would have won the league that year, I feel, if they had retained Henry- who was still world class and scored around 30 goals for Barcelona. Arsenal led the league for a long time, up until February, where they were 5 points clear with 12 matches to play.

Henry's leadership skills, experience, as well as pure talent and confidence would either have meant that the gap to Man United would have been larger when Arsenal's form collapsed, or that the collapse's impact could have been minimised.

The old Henry would have carried them over the line in 07/08 but the previous season he was very disruptive. We finished 4th then, his time was up and remember Adebayor hit 30 goals in his absence and Hleb said the team played more freely after he left. The previous season he was getting too big for his boots and telling Wenger what players to sign like Shaun Wright-Phillips on loan from Chelsea writing in his column in the Sun. Wenger was livid over this especially as he said he wouldn't be strengthening the squad that January. Also the Champions League game against PSV telling Wenger he was fit to play when he blatantly wasn't which was obvious when he came on. We got knocked out and Henry missed the rest of the season and I think then Wenger decided his time was up.

I remember like it was yesterday when we went 5 points up after beating Blackburn at home on a Monday night the day after United lost to City. I still thought Arsenal would bottle it though. Draws against Birmingham, Wigan and Middlesborough costed them straightaway after that.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

And there is very good chance that you will lose against fenerbarche and i agree with Sakho, i like him as a player.

 

[l.Harm]

I'd start with getting Begovic, Sakho, Kondogbia in.

 

[Amsterhammer]

Nearly half a million hits in a couple of days, sounds like the revolution is gathering pace....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gSFEaI4HdA

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Nearly half a million hits in a couple of days, sounds like the revolution is gathering pace....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gSFEaI4HdA

 

[gooner]

And there is very good chance that you will lose against fenerbarche and i agree with Sakho, i like him as a player.

I'd start with getting Begovic, Sakho, Kondogbia in.

Yes. I don't fancy us at all. If you watched us a few weeks back against Galatasaray in the Emirates Cup friendly, I have to say I'm worried. Lets not kid ourselves, Fenerbahce have much better players overall than Villa.

I was talking yesterday to a friend and I mentioned Kondogbia on to the other two as well. I was watching Sevilla's game last night against Atletico Madrid and although they lost, Kondogbia came on at half-time and was excellent. He'd be a very good signing. He impressed me a lot last year and also in the France youth teams when he was still at Lens. Wenger said a couple of months back he was a big fan of his but Del Nido(Sevilla president) said he doesn't want to sell while at the same time saying if a club want him they must pay his buyout clause. He doesn't say straight out he's for sale as the fans aren't happy with Medel, Negredo and Navas leaving. I think if they got a sufficient offer he would do the deal.

Anyway, it won't happen, we just bid for Cabaye even though he's a good player I don't think we need him. Other areas in the team should take priority. Simple as this I don't trust Wenger at the moment with the cash.

Nearly half a million hits in a couple of days, sounds like the revolution is gathering pace....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gSFEaI4HdA

I forgot to post this. The guy has been following the club for 40 yrs where he has been a member of many main Arsenal supporters group over then. I actually agree with him on Tim Payton, he is a media luvvie. I remember he wrote a column on the Daily Mail after the defeat to Bradford last season and he was on twitter where he was plugging it anything up to double figures. I know he's the AST's spokesman but he doesn't half love promoting the media attention he gets at the moment. For instance the guy who carried out the interview above did an interview with him a few weeks back and he just couldn't stop tweeting the link to it hyping up the interview. Not just that, he does the same with his interviews on Talksport radio. He loves the sound of his on voice at the moment and one of the first things the AST should do is ditch him as their spokesperson. There's lots of well meaning people in AST but I don't have much time for their spokesman in him. I remember him calling a worldwide fanbase outside of North London last year muppets after our defeat to Swansea. Some even called for him to resign after that comment and he goes around thinking his opinion is so esteemed and better than everyone else's which infact is no better than your's and mine.

 

[l.Harm]

I watched the match too. I liked Sevilla very much with hopefully Perotti back in his 2010/11 shape when he seemed to be the new star. Kondogbia is very strong and would be a good signing. Just pay the 20 million.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I watched the match too. I liked Sevilla very much with hopefully Perotti back in his 2010/11 shape when he seemed to be the new star. Kondogbia is very strong and would be a good signing. Just pay the 20 million.

My sympathy on your worst start ever.

 

[l.Harm]

Yes it's sad But I'm glad there's no panic. In the past everybody would be angry, trainer would get fired en the supporters would scream for every director to leave. It's definitely not the start we've hoped for, but I'm sure Feyenoord will recover from this and will be top-4 in the end. The other teams are not that good, although Twente is pretty impressive now. Next five matches can easily be won. And should be.



Oh btw I may have been too negative about West Ham. They have a good squad but they're dependent on Carroll-Nolan. If they keep them fit they could surprise.

 

[gooner]

I am looking forward to watching PSV and Milan tomorrow night to see how Zakaria Bakkali looks like. I heard big things about him. Is he that good? The Dutch round up has now been lost by ESPN and the new different one we have here is a over a week behind the action for some reason. This week I will be seeing the second round of matches instead of the third week so it's harder to keep up to date. Just wondering about this player.

I was reading this in the Daily Mail which will appear in the paper tomorrow and this is just unbelievable if true about Chamberlain's contract.

Wenger’s detailed knowledge of every player’s contract even created an issue when Oxlade-Chamberlain was making substitute appearances for Arsenal last season.

Written into the England winger’s deal is a clause stating that Arsenal must pay Saints £10,000 every time Oxlade-Chamberlain appears for more than 20 minutes.

Incredibly a trend emerged, with Wenger bringing him off the bench after 72 minutes (v Stoke), 73 minutes (Liverpool), 72 minutes (Coventry), 65 minutes (Norwich), 76 minutes (Fulham), 86 minutes (Tottenham), 67 minutes (Swansea), 73 minutes (West Ham), 71 minutes (Swansea), and 75 minutes (Reading).

Arsenal’s accounts department were stunned to receive an email from Southampton demanding payment for the appearances, with the south coast club justifying their argument based on stoppage time.

Eventually Arsenal agreed to pay for the appearances and the story worked its way around the offices at the Emirates with bafflement among staff.

They know Wenger calls the shots, but he is slow to move for targets.

This is a classic example of his dithering once again.

Last season Rowley was a regular at Crystal Palace matches, following Wilfried Zaha around the country as Arsenal stepped up their interest.

Rowley would pop up at Leicester or Burnley, watching Zaha closely as Palace headed for the play-offs and promotion back to the Barclays Premier League.

When it came to the crunch, Wenger’s assistant manager Steve Bould picked up the phone to an old friend at Palace to ask for his assessment of the £15m forward.

By then it was too late. Zaha had been given permission to meet Sir Alex Ferguson and the deal was wrapped up within a day.

The England winger is another one to get away, but everyone at Arsenal knows that Wenger — a thoroughly charming and decent guy — has failed to keep pace with the modern game.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...rs-tired-formula-just-doesnt-add-anymore.html

 

[Amsterhammer]

Yes it's sad But I'm glad there's no panic. In the past everybody would be angry, trainer would get fired en the supporters would scream for every director to leave. It's definitely not the start we've hoped for, but I'm sure Feyenoord will recover from this and will be top-4 in the end. The other teams are not that good, although Twente is pretty impressive now. Next five matches can easily be won. And should be.



Oh btw I may have been too negative about West Ham. They have a good squad but they're dependent on Carroll-Nolan. If they keep them fit they could surprise.

Agree absolutely that Feyenoord should finish top 4. Carroll will never stay uninjured for any length of time because of the way that he plays. Injuries are inevitable. The back ups we have are not good enough for the Prem - Maiga and Vaz Te, and the club has been unable to find any striker willing to come. As things stand now, they have to get rid of at least one player before they can buy anyone, both because of the cash, and the (I believe self-imposed) salary cap. I have no fear of relegation, and will be very happy finishing in the 8-12 area.

 

[Amsterhammer]

I am looking forward to watching PSV and Milan tomorrow night to see how Zakaria Bakkali looks like. I heard big things about him. Is he that good?

I've seen the boy (17) twice on the box, and he's looked sensational. Seems to have everything, good moves, pace, skill, bottle, and a great shot. But, those were two games against opposition that didn't amount to much, so I'll reserve judgement till I've seen him up against better quality defenders, and after he's played say a dozen games. He's certainly a very exciting looking prospect. If he develops in the best possible way, he could become huge.

edit - Bakkali missed the last training with a thigh strain and will probably not play.

 

[Alphabet]

Agree totally. He is the Alastair Campbell of football management. '4th place is a trophy'. His press conferences these past few weeks are just right along these spin doctoring lines. Coming out asking journalists who were questioning him about the transfer inactivity to tell him which players who were available that are better than what he has.

I think the problem is that Arsenal/Wenger haven't adjusted to changes in football. He still seems to think that it's 1998 and his approach of buying young players from foreign leagues on the cheap will work, which isn't the case for a number of reasons. Of course now Arsenal have been surpassed by three clubs (Chelsea, City and Liverpool) in terms of funds available to use on transfers, partly because of new ownership and partly because the move to the Emirates has so far been an expensive mistake, but beyond that, Wenger's approach worked early days because it was brand new and nobody could match it. Plenty of clubs and managers have cottoned onto his methods though and have been beating him at his own game (for example Pardew making a few good, cheap transfers from France), so he's left scratching his head.

The best thing he can do is forget about sticking to his once wildly successful transfer policy and look to exhaust the entire budget on established pro's.

Also, how do transfers work at Arsenal? At Chelsea, all indicators are that the manager (or even the assistant) names a position he would like to be strengthened, possibly recommends somebody, to the Director of Football, who can either choose to accept the manager's opinion or waste 50 million on Fernando Torres. As they are fairly powerless in the transfer market, Chelsea's managers aren't really responsible for poor or great transfers. Do Arsenal employ a similar Director of Football approach or does Wenger alone call the shots?

 

[gooner]

I think the problem is that Arsenal/Wenger haven't adjusted to changes in football. He still seems to think that it's 1998 and his approach of buying young players from foreign leagues on the cheap will work, which isn't the case for a number of reasons. Of course now Arsenal have been surpassed by three clubs (Chelsea, City and Liverpool) in terms of funds available to use on transfers, partly because of new ownership and partly because the move to the Emirates has so far been an expensive mistake, but beyond that, Wenger's approach worked early days because it was brand new and nobody could match it. Plenty of clubs and managers have cottoned onto his methods though and have been beating him at his own game (for example Pardew making a few good, cheap transfers from France), so he's left scratching his head.

The best thing he can do is forget about sticking to his once wildly successful transfer policy and look to exhaust the entire budget on established pro's.

Also, how do transfers work at Arsenal? At Chelsea, all indicators are that the manager (or even the assistant) names a position he would like to be strengthened, possibly recommends somebody, to the Director of Football, who can either choose to accept the manager's opinion or waste 50 million on Fernando Torres. As they are fairly powerless in the transfer market, Chelsea's managers aren't really responsible for poor or great transfers. Do Arsenal employ a similar Director of Football approach or does Wenger alone call the shots?

Arsenal have more funds than Liverpool just that they haven't tapped into it yet. I don't think Pardew has much to do with the French additions at Newcastle. That was set up by Ashley and Llambias when they appointed Graham Carr as chief scout over there. Pardew might rubber stamp the signings in the end but it's all Ashley's doing as he sees it a cost saving market to tap into. They just throw player after player from France at him to judge as a possible addition. Judging by their performances last season and against City last night I wouldn't be looking too much with envy at them. I remember Pardew criticising Wenger back in 2006 for not having an Englishman in the team when the beat R.Madrid in the Champions League and Pulis said he had a feeling he didn't sign Cabaye for Newcastle.

There's no Director of Football and Wenger got extended powers after Dein left in 2007. For instance he interviewed candidates for the chief executive role afterwards and vetoed Paul Donovan's appointment(Vodafone CEO) when he spoke to him. This resulted with Gazidis's appointment in 2009. **** Law does the player transfer negotiations but he works mainly out of Dallas in the States. Both Gazidis and Law work to Wenger's template where everything they do is run by him. The whole structure in all this is wrong in the modern day and Kroenke just seems to pander to Wenger in allowing him with all this free rein. He gets no reproach from the board in anything he says. He sets the fees and wages for players.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/fa-cup-swansea-vs-arsenal-1519713

 

[Alphabet]

It's a shame to see Wenger losing the plot like this. He always had my respect, if not my liking.

 

[l.Harm]

I am looking forward to watching PSV and Milan tomorrow night to see how Zakaria Bakkali looks like. I heard big things about him. Is he that good? The Dutch round up has now been lost by ESPN and the new different one we have here is a over a week behind the action for some reason. This week I will be seeing the second round of matches instead of the third week so it's harder to keep up to date. Just wondering about this player.

I was reading this in the Daily Mail which will appear in the paper tomorrow and this is just unbelievable if true about Chamberlain's contract.

PSV has been spectacular the first weeks. Scouts from all over the world (well, Europe) will be in Eindhoven today. But so far they mainly played minor teams, but they won in an impressive way. Still it's questionable whether their defence will hold against Milan. Rekik and Bruma have done well so far, but the full backs have their weaknesses. Unfortunately the 17-year old Bakkali is injured, but the other winger, Depay, is also a player to watch. Has scored some amazing goals. And they signed Maher for 6 million, didn't impress so far, but definitely is a very good midfielder.

 

[The Hitch]

Isco, to coin Dekker Tifosi, absolutely destroyed all earth in Real's first match.

Wonder if that team can do better now that the alleged most intelligent man on the planet isn't their manager. If everything the British press said about narcisinho and everything he said about himself, were true, Real should get relegated this season.

 

[CzechBike]

Bad start in the champions league qualifiers formvceltic losing 2-0 away to shaktar karagandy

 

[gooner]

Bad start in the champions league qualifiers formvceltic losing 2-0 away to shaktar karagandy

Poor performance and Mouyoukolo and Van Dijk had nightmares at the back. Lennon should have started Stokes who is by far his best goal scorer now that Hooper has left.