The real Tennis thread.

[Red Rick]

Thiem played solid. Usually he loses his head when he's up against a player he can't really figure out, but he was actually for the most part making pretty solid tactical decisions. Problem for him that his execution wasn't good enough even with a solid gameplan, and there's a few things he keeps doing that I'd want him to work on if I were his coach.

But overall Nadal just too clutch and too good. Turns out even the Thiem single hander doesn't like the Nadal moonball if Nadal moonballs higher and deeper. Thiem won in Madrid vs Nadal, but Madrid is at 600m altitude or something and it's always the fastest clay tournamentin Europe. (outside Europe there's Quito which is at 2800m and positively hilarious).

But really tennis needs young talent. Ofcourse Federer and Nadal are exceptional, but even then they shouldn't be dominating at 32 and soon 37. The young 'talents' of today would have been nothing freaking special 15 years ago. I don't consider Alexander Zverev to be more talented than Andy Roddick for example, and he may win 5 to 10 times the amount of Slams due to birth date only.

 

[Brullnux]

I'm not the biggest tennis fan and only watch the grand slams (I guess I'm like a july-er) but from what I could see Zverev is just brilliant at hitting a ball very hard, and also serving and holding said serve. He looked clueless at the net. His style of play isn't my favourite and him against khachanov, while they are both clearly good and can hit a ball hard, was pretty boring to me as it was usually a rally of 8 or 9 shots before an error, or a big serve and two more shots. Do they normally play like this?

 

[The Hitch]

Who will win a gs first. Someone from the 90s or 2000s

 

[Red Rick]

Who will win a gs first. Someone from the 90s or 2000s

I guess you're joking, but it's honestly not like the 2000 generation looks brilliant either.

My guess is the newest Slam champion will be Kei Nishikori

 

[The Hitch]

Who will win a gs first. Someone from the 90s or 2000s

I guess you're joking, but it's honestly not like the 2000 generation looks brilliant either.

My guess is the newest Slam champion will be Kei Nishikori

At some point someone else has to win. And we are only a few years away from someone little known from the 2000s potentially making a big leap

 

[Red Rick]

Who will win a gs first. Someone from the 90s or 2000s

I guess you're joking, but it's honestly not like the 2000 generation looks brilliant either.

My guess is the newest Slam champion will be Kei Nishikori

At some point someone else has to win. And we are only a few years away from someone little known from the 2000s potentially making a big leap

I think it's coming too soon for the 2000s kids to get there. Both Federer and Nadal aren't as sharp as last year, perhaps due to actually playing the full season last year, Djokovic still has some way to go, noone knows how Murray will come back, and if Cilic or Delpo are gonna close down the fort for a long time then tennis deserves to die.

Fed should still win Wimbledon, young players are too useless on grass still, but I think the USO and the next AO are pretty wide open, even if it means lesser 80's players will be the biggest dangermen. RG is probably still Rafa's for next year, although the final scoreline was worse than the match was I think.

Problem is that of the players in their early 20s, none are making big strides either. Zverev keeps hammering away in the 1000s but keeps being useless in the Slams, he was incredibly lucky to even reach the QFs.

Thiem is an pure clay player in a day when Nadala is around.

Kyrgios keeps having mental/injury issues, and his game is too high variance to go deep into Slams. He plays too many tiebreaks, and when he plays truly elite baseline players, he ends up being a servebot.

Dimitrov stopped progressing. He's learnt to leverage his insane ability to scramble but the simple fact is that the bread and butter of the game, serve+1/return/bh is just not nearly good enough for him

Goffin is never going deeper than a semifinal at most.

Pouille has all the shots but no consistency and only wins the random 250s and 500s.

Sock never had Slam level talent and is like 130th in the ATP race

Chung is injured all the time

Rublev is injured

Shapovalov is progressing, but his return game is a massive pain

Coric is getting to top 20 level, but beyond that I'm doubtful


There's a lot of players who could make QF, SF runs, but that's where it ends for now. Not a single player right now has near the talent of Federer/Nadal/Djokovic or maybe even Murray and it's gonna be a massive blow to the game when they inevitably retire in a short window of time.

 

[Gigs_98]

I'm not sure if the new generation is really that weak or the old generation simply out of this world amazing. I mean if you measure greatness in gs titles three of the four greatest tennis players ever are currently playing. Maybe this is the extraordinary thing and when Federer, Nadal and Djokivic retire we'll be back to normal where guys like Murray are the tennis superstars.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm not sure if the new generation is really that weak or the old generation simply out of this world amazing. I mean if you measure greatness in gs titles three of the four greatest tennis players ever are currently playing. Maybe this is the extraordinary thing and when Federer, Nadal and Djokivic retire we'll be back to normal where guys like Murray are the tennis superstars.

Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are without question the 3 best players of all time. Murray probably would've been an all time great too in a different time. I don't see how any of todays youngsters are more talented than the guys who were stuck in the bottom end of the top 5 for the majority of the past 15 years.

The exception for me is Thiem, who's sort of clay specialist the past generation didn't have who can win a few RG titles and that's it. Problem for Thiem is that a few of his prime years are coinciding with Nadals.

 

[Forever The Best]

Federer, Nadal and Djokovic have 49 GS combined. That's a sick dominance by those 3. I agree that the new generation is not very strong.

 

[Red Rick]

Meanwhile, still no announcement from Murray on Queens. I fear he's kissing the grass season goodbye, and maybe worse

 

[The Hitch]

I'm not sure if the new generation is really that weak or the old generation simply out of this world amazing. I mean if you measure greatness in gs titles three of the four greatest tennis players ever are currently playing. Maybe this is the extraordinary thing and when Federer, Nadal and Djokivic retire we'll be back to normal where guys like Murray are the tennis superstars.

Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are without question the 3 best players of all time. Murray probably would've been an all time great too in a different time. I don't see how any of todays youngsters are more talented than the guys who were stuck in the bottom end of the top 5 for the majority of the past 15 years.

The exception for me is Thiem, who's sort of clay specialist the past generation didn't have who can win a few RG titles and that's it. Problem for Thiem is that a few of his prime years are coinciding with Nadals.

Maybe we did this before but what do you think the best version of these 3 is? 07 or 09 fed? 08 or 10 nadal. 11 or 15 djokovic? Probably 11djoker for me.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm not sure if the new generation is really that weak or the old generation simply out of this world amazing. I mean if you measure greatness in gs titles three of the four greatest tennis players ever are currently playing. Maybe this is the extraordinary thing and when Federer, Nadal and Djokivic retire we'll be back to normal where guys like Murray are the tennis superstars.

Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are without question the 3 best players of all time. Murray probably would've been an all time great too in a different time. I don't see how any of todays youngsters are more talented than the guys who were stuck in the bottom end of the top 5 for the majority of the past 15 years.

The exception for me is Thiem, who's sort of clay specialist the past generation didn't have who can win a few RG titles and that's it. Problem for Thiem is that a few of his prime years are coinciding with Nadals.

Maybe we did this before but what do you think the best version of these 3 is? 07 or 09 fed? 08 or 10 nadal. 11 or 15 djokovic? Probably 11djoker for me.

Federer's best stretch is definitely 2006-AO 2007. In that stretch he only lost one match to Murray and all other losses were vs Nadal, mostly on clay, and set a few very sick records in that period. I think he made like 16 or 17 consecutive finals or something. That stretch definitely ended when he had back to back losses to Cañas in IW and Miami. Then later that season Djokovic started beating him on HC as well. 2007 might be the weakest of Federer's 3 Slam seasons.

Nadal, probably 2008. I know he won 3 consecutive Slams on 3 surfaces in 2010, but in 2008 he won the Olympics directly on HC directly after Wimbledon, and competition was definitely stronger in 2008. Fed was nowhere after the AO, Djokovic was nowhere before the USO, Murray was worse than in 2009 as well, Delpo got injured, Roddick started permanent decline etc etc.

Djokovic, 2011, no question. I think he was way better that year than in 2015, although he started getting injuries after Wimbledon and completely ran out of gas after the USO. But in 2011 he practically beat a very strong field entirely into submission on his own, whereas in 2015 the field was a lot worse.

And lastly for Murray, I'd probably say 2012-AO 2013 was easily his best stretch of tennis. Even better than his 2nd half of 2016, the difference being way stronger competition in 2012. He started having back issues soon after that AO, skipped RG and winning Wimbledon was a small miracle that year.

 

[The Hitch]

I'm not sure if the new generation is really that weak or the old generation simply out of this world amazing. I mean if you measure greatness in gs titles three of the four greatest tennis players ever are currently playing. Maybe this is the extraordinary thing and when Federer, Nadal and Djokivic retire we'll be back to normal where guys like Murray are the tennis superstars.

Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are without question the 3 best players of all time. Murray probably would've been an all time great too in a different time. I don't see how any of todays youngsters are more talented than the guys who were stuck in the bottom end of the top 5 for the majority of the past 15 years.

The exception for me is Thiem, who's sort of clay specialist the past generation didn't have who can win a few RG titles and that's it. Problem for Thiem is that a few of his prime years are coinciding with Nadals.

Maybe we did this before but what do you think the best version of these 3 is? 07 or 09 fed? 08 or 10 nadal. 11 or 15 djokovic? Probably 11djoker for me.

Federer's best stretch is definitely 2006-AO 2007. In that stretch he only lost one match to Murray and all other losses were vs Nadal, mostly on clay, and set a few very sick records in that period. I think he made like 16 or 17 consecutive finals or something. That stretch definitely ended when he had back to back losses to Cañas in IW and Miami. Then later that season Djokovic started beating him on HC as well. 2007 might be the weakest of Federer's 3 Slam seasons.

Nadal, probably 2008. I know he won 3 consecutive Slams on 3 surfaces in 2010, but in 2008 he won the Olympics directly on HC directly after Wimbledon, and competition was definitely stronger in 2008. Fed was nowhere after the AO, Djokovic was nowhere before the USO, Murray was worse than in 2009 as well, Delpo got injured, Roddick started permanent decline etc etc.

Djokovic, 2011, no question. I think he was way better that year than in 2015, although he started getting injuries after Wimbledon and completely ran out of gas after the USO. But in 2011 he practically beat a very strong field entirely into submission on his own, whereas in 2015 the field was a lot worse.

And lastly for Murray, I'd probably say 2012-AO 2013 was easily his best stretch of tennis. Even better than his 2nd half of 2016, the difference being way stronger competition in 2012. He started having back issues soon after that AO, skipped RG and winning Wimbledon was a small miracle that year.

I meant which one of those is the single greatest version of a tennis player ever overall, not which year was the best for every player lol.

 

[MarkvW]

I'm not sure if the new generation is really that weak or the old generation simply out of this world amazing. I mean if you measure greatness in gs titles three of the four greatest tennis players ever are currently playing. Maybe this is the extraordinary thing and when Federer, Nadal and Djokivic retire we'll be back to normal where guys like Murray are the tennis superstars.

Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are without question the 3 best players of all time. Murray probably would've been an all time great too in a different time. I don't see how any of todays youngsters are more talented than the guys who were stuck in the bottom end of the top 5 for the majority of the past 15 years.

The exception for me is Thiem, who's sort of clay specialist the past generation didn't have who can win a few RG titles and that's it. Problem for Thiem is that a few of his prime years are coinciding with Nadals.

Maybe we did this before but what do you think the best version of these 3 is? 07 or 09 fed? 08 or 10 nadal. 11 or 15 djokovic? Probably 11djoker for me.

Federer's best stretch is definitely 2006-AO 2007. In that stretch he only lost one match to Murray and all other losses were vs Nadal, mostly on clay, and set a few very sick records in that period. I think he made like 16 or 17 consecutive finals or something. That stretch definitely ended when he had back to back losses to Cañas in IW and Miami. Then later that season Djokovic started beating him on HC as well. 2007 might be the weakest of Federer's 3 Slam seasons.

Nadal, probably 2008. I know he won 3 consecutive Slams on 3 surfaces in 2010, but in 2008 he won the Olympics directly on HC directly after Wimbledon, and competition was definitely stronger in 2008. Fed was nowhere after the AO, Djokovic was nowhere before the USO, Murray was worse than in 2009 as well, Delpo got injured, Roddick started permanent decline etc etc.

Djokovic, 2011, no question. I think he was way better that year than in 2015, although he started getting injuries after Wimbledon and completely ran out of gas after the USO. But in 2011 he practically beat a very strong field entirely into submission on his own, whereas in 2015 the field was a lot worse.

And lastly for Murray, I'd probably say 2012-AO 2013 was easily his best stretch of tennis. Even better than his 2nd half of 2016, the difference being way stronger competition in 2012. He started having back issues soon after that AO, skipped RG and winning Wimbledon was a small miracle that year.

I meant which one of those is the single greatest version of a tennis player ever overall, not which year was the best for every player lol.

For a few brief moments, every now and then, Ilie Nastase was the very best that ever was. But those moments never lasted very long.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Meanwhile, still no announcement from Murray on Queens. I fear he's kissing the grass season goodbye, and maybe worse

Having waited until the last minute, he announced this morning that he will play Queens.

 

[Red Rick]

I'm not sure if the new generation is really that weak or the old generation simply out of this world amazing. I mean if you measure greatness in gs titles three of the four greatest tennis players ever are currently playing. Maybe this is the extraordinary thing and when Federer, Nadal and Djokivic retire we'll be back to normal where guys like Murray are the tennis superstars.

Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are without question the 3 best players of all time. Murray probably would've been an all time great too in a different time. I don't see how any of todays youngsters are more talented than the guys who were stuck in the bottom end of the top 5 for the majority of the past 15 years.

The exception for me is Thiem, who's sort of clay specialist the past generation didn't have who can win a few RG titles and that's it. Problem for Thiem is that a few of his prime years are coinciding with Nadals.

Maybe we did this before but what do you think the best version of these 3 is? 07 or 09 fed? 08 or 10 nadal. 11 or 15 djokovic? Probably 11djoker for me.

Federer's best stretch is definitely 2006-AO 2007. In that stretch he only lost one match to Murray and all other losses were vs Nadal, mostly on clay, and set a few very sick records in that period. I think he made like 16 or 17 consecutive finals or something. That stretch definitely ended when he had back to back losses to Cañas in IW and Miami. Then later that season Djokovic started beating him on HC as well. 2007 might be the weakest of Federer's 3 Slam seasons.

Nadal, probably 2008. I know he won 3 consecutive Slams on 3 surfaces in 2010, but in 2008 he won the Olympics directly on HC directly after Wimbledon, and competition was definitely stronger in 2008. Fed was nowhere after the AO, Djokovic was nowhere before the USO, Murray was worse than in 2009 as well, Delpo got injured, Roddick started permanent decline etc etc.

Djokovic, 2011, no question. I think he was way better that year than in 2015, although he started getting injuries after Wimbledon and completely ran out of gas after the USO. But in 2011 he practically beat a very strong field entirely into submission on his own, whereas in 2015 the field was a lot worse.

And lastly for Murray, I'd probably say 2012-AO 2013 was easily his best stretch of tennis. Even better than his 2nd half of 2016, the difference being way stronger competition in 2012. He started having back issues soon after that AO, skipped RG and winning Wimbledon was a small miracle that year.

I meant which one of those is the single greatest version of a tennis player ever overall, not which year was the best for every player lol.

Ooh. I think 2011 up until the USO. Nadal is not in the conversation for me in this.

2006 is the other option for me. It has Bo5 finals some of the masters and in some of the 250s at the time, but for me the biggest thing is that Federer went 1-3 vs Nadal while Djokovic in 2011 went something like 6-0 vs Nadal

 

[Red Rick]

And I'm so happy to see Murray back. Draws his buddy Kyrgios in the first round lol.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Great match between Fed and Kyrgios as always.

Man, I'm happy we are over the main part of the clay season. Grass tennis is a thing of beauty compared to.

 

[Red Rick]

Grass is overrated in my opinion, especially with players like Kyrgios and Raonic where you often know they're just never breaking another top player and you're just waiting for the tiebreak.

 

[Red Rick]

Murray looked better than I could've hoped for. Glad to see him back. Now he needs to not draw Federer at Wimbledon and hopefully win a few matches to not drop outside the top 900 or something

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

Murray looked better than I could've hoped for. Glad to see him back. Now he needs to not draw Federer at Wimbledon and hopefully win a few matches to not drop outside the top 900 or something

Yes he actually looked ok, I wonder if he will now try and play a couple of exhibition matches to get a little sharper come Wimbledon.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Murray looked better than I could've hoped for. Glad to see him back. Now he needs to not draw Federer at Wimbledon and hopefully win a few matches to not drop outside the top 900 or something

Yes he actually looked ok, I wonder if he will now try and play a couple of exhibition matches to get a little sharper come Wimbledon.

He mentioned the possibility of playing Eastbourne and skipping Wimbledon, which could make sense if he doesn't feel ready to play Bo5 yet.

 

[Red Rick]

Murray will play Eastbourne, and decide on Wimbledon afterwards

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Pretty good final in Halle, that emphasizes the importance of winning the big points. Something Federer is isually one of the best at, but really didn't manage today. Congratulations to Coric.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Pretty good final in Halle, that emphasizes the importance of winning the big points. Something Federer is isually one of the best at, but really didn't manage today. Congratulations to Coric.

Federer with the 1.3 dominance ratio, meaning he won 30% more return points than Coric. Yet he manages to get broken more than Coric did. Typical for Federer

Djokovic let Cilic off the hook in the Queen's final. Too passive in the end, but he's definitely improving.

Murray with the easy win over Wawrinka today. His movement is looking pretty fine. Just the serving that's still bad. Wawrinka on the other hand looks done and dusted. He's not coming back from this I think.