Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Strong Jumbo and UAE could made this Tour little bit boring - so I hope that all the other teams stand a chance against Jumbo and UAE.

I hope that Bora‘s Hindley finishes this Tour on the final GC podium. He has won the Giro 2022, and probably is even stronger now.

If all goes well, Hindley even could win this Tour for Bora-Hansgrohe. It would be a huge surprise, but I think Vinge and Pog will be this 1% less „driven“: they already won a TdF, after all! (So the hunger will be smaller than Hindley‘s hunger…)

 

[xo 1]

Strong Jumbo and UAE could made this Tour little bit boring - so I hope that all the other teams stand a chance against Jumbo and UAE.

I hope that Bora‘s Hindley finishes this Tour on the final GC podium. He has won the Giro 2022, and probably is even stronger now.

If all goes well, Hindley even could win this Tour for Bora-Hansgrohe. It would be a huge surprise, but I think Vinge and Pog will be this 1% less „driven“: they already won a TdF, after all! (So the hunger will be smaller than Hindley‘s hunger…)

That's not far fetched. My hope is that the lack of a clear candidate for the third spot in the podium will lead the 10 possibilities to race aggressively. But there is enough history of several of the "contenders" riding to protect their sixth, seventh or eighth place to worry that many riders will fear dropping out of the top ten more than they will fancy risking it all to finish on the podium. The best chance of a cracking race may be if a rider like Pidcock nabs the yellow jersey on the opening stage then INEOS has to fight to defend yellow against a rightfully skeptical peloton who thinks they can grab some time in yellow before Vinge and Pog assert their dominance. (Apologies since this is the Bora thread, but in my view, that's probably the INEOS dream scenario. Otherwise, it looks like a squad that could nab a stage, but they haven't exactly loaded up on potential stage hunters.)

To turn back to Bora, Hindley is a good shout. He has shown himself to be most consistent of the alternative contenders. The question in my mind is whether the gap to Giro excellence is larger than I imagine. Perhaps the speed of a TDF peloton will show him out before the third week.

 

[search]

here's Bennett's view on it:

“I kept training, did Hungary, I was flying there and I barely missed out on a win. Slight details, like very slight details. Then the sprint was cancelled on the last day.

“Then I’d just do the Dauphiné after that. But the legs were there. I was coming into the best shape, you could see my climbing numbers. I just needed then to focus on the sprint once the shape was there. And that was the way it was going to be at the Tour.”

“If I’d knew I had to win to go to the Tour, I would have taken it much easier in the other days that weren’t guaranteed sprints and gone for the exact day that was a sprint day. But I wanted to go for everything.

“I went very deep the other days, and then I wasn’t as fresh as I wished on that stage. But that race was for training, it was to go deep, it was to get to go above my limit to really push on and to be ready for the Tour.”

“For sure I would have been in top shape,” he says. “The green jersey was something that I really wanted to go for. I really think that I could have competed for that. I have the experience. I know what’s involved. And of course, I know how to win at that level. I’ve done it before. Everything was on target.”

Sam Bennett on Tour non-selection: ‘First I was shocked, then I was upset ... For sure I would have been in top shape.’

The 2020 Maillot Vert opens up about missing the Tour de France.

velo.outsideonline.com

 

[Statze2]

at the Moment the Potential Bora u23 Riders are in a Training Camp in Ötztal. Some of them can get a pro contract for the next Season.
Herzog, Hajek and Pajur are confirmed (Post on Strava). I think that kockelman and Schrettl are also Part of the Camp. And maybe some More Riders from ktm tirol or Lotto Kern Haus.

In my opinion Herzog, Hajek anf Schrettl Are the most likely riders for a pro contract.

 

[Reynard]

For most of them the season is not going great racing wise. But of course that's not everything in a young riders development. I think it could be even rather insignificant. They will probably get more out of such evaluation camps.

I think their rider development in the WT team and with this coaching staff is quite good. Cian has a steady development and looks poised to start winning next year (or even earlier). But also the not Super-talent level guys made steady progress in the last years. Wandahl got better with every year until the bad crash paused his development (contract runs out as well). Schelling had a bad 22 but bounced back and got some Top 5 WT results. Aleotti is maybe not the GC prospect some hoped for but did his best GC yet in Slovenia in my eyes (when looking at the opposition) and helped Hindley to the Giro win. Zwiehoff as a late starter into the road racing really with a career development I didn't expect. Hope we see him at the Vuelta. If you are not following the team what many could have missed is that Florian Lipowitz is turning a bit surprisingly into a real World Tour rider. Felt a bit like a german roster filler after a bad 22 and multiple better talent from the tirol team going to other places (Engelhardt, Steinhauser, Govekar). You can't even see it in the results yet because he is giving everything for his team leaders until now. I think he would have been on the Podium in Sibiu if he didn't have ride for Schachmann. Would be also nice to see him at the Vuelta as Bora has plenty of leaders who there (Cian, Vlasov, Higuita) who need a dedicated supporting squad.

It feels like big chances are coming to the team this summer. From the younger guys Wandahl, Aleotti, Schelling have expiring contracts. Bennett, Mullen and Archbold are leaving. Konrad and Politt are strongly rumoured to leave and would leave a big gap within the team. Koretzy, plazer, Walls and fabbro should be in my eyes certain too leave. Don't think the should be in WT tbh for different reasons. Koch and Benedetti also with expirings, but I think here a extension should be plausible if the riders also want to.


So Bora is linked to basically everyone who ones serious money on the transfer market. With Bennett, Politt and Konrad possibly going out and the sponsors committed long term they have the money to buy some good new guys - probably mostly GC domestiques. Bringing in talents for the last 2-3 spots should be the plan. Plausible in my eyes would be Herzog, Pajur and Kockelmann. Schrettl has the best results by a mile but is also racing his second season out of the juniors as is Hajek. If you're moving on (or the riders want to leave) from Aleotti, Schelling or Wandahl it could make sense to give them a spot, but for me I could live with giving them one more year at the Tirol team even if that means the risk of loosing them to another WT team. If you want to bring in young, german speaking GC/GT talent they should go after Wilksch or Steinhauser (contract with EF seems to be expiring as well). The other three were the bigger talents in the junior ranks and could fit very well in a 2-3 year development plan with the team starting this winter as their specialities are pretty bleak atm at Bora (classics, sprinting, cobbles) and there won't be much budget assigned to that field anyway with Bora only bringing in Welsford (and not Kooij, jakobsen) and probably extending the Mountain domestique squad (rumours regarding basically everyone there...Martinez, Sobbrero, Tulett).

 

[Statze2]

For most of them the season is not going great racing wise. But of course that's not everything in a young riders development. I think it could be even rather insignificant. They will probably get more out of such evaluation camps.

I think their rider development in the WT team and with this coaching staff is quite good. Cian has a steady development and looks poised to start winning next year (or even earlier). But also the not Super-talent level guys made steady progress in the last years. Wandahl got better with every year until the bad crash paused his development (contract runs out as well). Schelling had a bad 22 but bounced back and got some Top 5 WT results. Aleotti is maybe not the GC prospect some hoped for but did his best GC yet in Slovenia in my eyes (when looking at the opposition) and helped Hindley to the Giro win. Zwiehoff as a late starter into the road racing really with a career development I didn't expect. Hope we see him at the Vuelta. If you are not following the team what many could have missed is that Florian Lipowitz is turning a bit surprisingly into a real World Tour rider. Felt a bit like a german roster filler after a bad 22 and multiple better talent from the tirol team going to other places (Engelhardt, Steinhauser, Govekar). You can't even see it in the results yet because he is giving everything for his team leaders until now. I think he would have been on the Podium in Sibiu if he didn't have ride for Schachmann. Would be also nice to see him at the Vuelta as Bora has plenty of leaders who there (Cian, Vlasov, Higuita) who need a dedicated supporting squad.

It feels like big chances are coming to the team this summer. From the younger guys Wandahl, Aleotti, Schelling have expiring contracts. Bennett, Mullen and Archbold are leaving. Konrad and Politt are strongly rumoured to leave and would leave a big gap within the team. Koretzy, plazer, Walls and fabbro should be in my eyes certain too leave. Don't think the should be in WT tbh for different reasons. Koch and Benedetti also with expirings, but I think here a extension should be plausible if the riders also want to.


So Bora is linked to basically everyone who ones serious money on the transfer market. With Bennett, Politt and Konrad possibly going out and the sponsors committed long term they have the money to buy some good new guys - probably mostly GC domestiques. Bringing in talents for the last 2-3 spots should be the plan. Plausible in my eyes would be Herzog, Pajur and Kockelmann. Schrettl has the best results by a mile but is also racing his second season out of the juniors as is Hajek. If you're moving on (or the riders want to leave) from Aleotti, Schelling or Wandahl it could make sense to give them a spot, but for me I could live with giving them one more year at the Tirol team even if that means the risk of loosing them to another WT team. If you want to bring in young, german speaking GC/GT talent they should go after Wilksch or Steinhauser (contract with EF seems to be expiring as well). The other three were the bigger talents in the junior ranks and could fit very well in a 2-3 year development plan with the team starting this winter as their specialities are pretty bleak atm at Bora (classics, sprinting, cobbles) and there won't be much budget assigned to that field anyway with Bora only bringing in Welsford (and not Kooij, jakobsen) and probably extending the Mountain domestique squad (rumours regarding basically everyone there...Martinez, Sobbrero, Tulett).

In some points i totally agree in some not.
Herzog ist not doing well this year - but in the last 6-8 weeks he was nearly exclusive riding the mountain bike and doing the world cup races. Lets see if he is able to deliver some results in the next weeks. I think you have to sign him after this year because later on there will be to much other WT teams fighting for this guy.
Hajek and Schrettl both had good results this spring and had shown that they have the amount of talent for the WT. They both didn´t had the best results possible due to different reasons (crashes and illness). Maybe one of them is starting as a stagiare this year at bora.

Pajur got another year of contract at lotto kern haus and didn´t show anything this year. So i´ll think he will stay there for another year.

The Bora squad will see some changes after this season. Some "big" guys like Politt (i still hope that he extends), Konrad, Bennett out and some more "normal" guys out like Archbold, Mullen and in my opinion Fabbro and Walls.
If possible i will try to extend the contracts with Aleotti, Wandahl, Schelling, Koch and Palzer. Palzer is a dedicated domestique with red bull as sponsor and did ok the last two years. Wandahl and Aleotti both have potential for the hilly classics, the domestique role and maybe for GC in some smaller races.
Schelling is one of the few riders for break aways, some kind of sprints and some classic races. Bora does not have a lot of this riders at the squad at the moment. Koch is a experienced domestique who can also ride in the classics.
So there will be enough space for those 3 young riders and some signings.
If you can trust the rumors there will be sam welsford in (maybe plus one or two lead out guys?), Martinez as GC rider and/or domestique for the GTs.

I´m missing some rumours about a roleur/cobbled classic rider if politt is leaving. If Bora is not filling that gap they are more or less without any bullet in the cobbled classics.
The sprint will be equal to this year, the hilly classics will be better and the GTs will be a little bit better.

 

[Reynard]

I would guess they don't replace Politt with a similar rider type. Of course UAE could be paying him a lot of bucks but being the captain for two monuments, on the Team in your country, that also pays well is hard to beat. So I would guess if they don't extend Bora isn't willing to pay that good of a salary as they are further transitioning away from the classics. keeping that dynamic in mind I don't see anyone on the market who can fir that role available and in budget. Küng and laporte extended their deals long term. Basically all other second tier guys are signed through 2025. Maybe Trentin would be the best one available as a swap with UAE. But that guy is 33 and probably the opposite of cheap. Also it's hard to judge how good he would be after doing mostly domestique work.

If I would be the Bora management I would do the following:

- first I would try everything within a reasonable salary to keep Politt (and Konrad)
- if that isn't possible I would accept to pivot away from the belgian classics by not signing a real replacement but keep my powder dry for other specialities -> put more races in Italy and France in the calendar instead
- but as a WT team you need to start a few of those races nevertheless: therefore I would sign Walscheid as a Roubaix expert, 3rd sprinter (replacing Walls), filler for the other cobbled races and possible leadout/RC in a GT
- then you do some calendar adjustements to this year: Jungels will lead the roster in most classics next to Haller and van Poppel so he's out for the Ardennes and the Giro. Denz and Gamper are replacing most of the other schedule of Politt with Denz getting his first real shot to go for his own in some minor classics.
- I use the plus on hillier races outside of Belgium to give Aleotti , Wandahl or Schelling more goals in a season and try to convince at leas two of them to stay
-then besides not giving contracts to Fabbro, Walls, Koretzky I don't care about RB and don't waste a valuable Roster spot an Palzer. He could do the Giro that was his goal, nowI don't think he should do another GT or continue racing in the WT.
- besides taking in 2-3 really young guys from their devo path I try to convince Steinhauser to join because he's fitting really well in to the changed schedule and is one of the three best german talents (where Bora has currently zero under contract which is kind of stupid because most of them were in their orbit)
- Next Up i need to bring a few people that can do a leadout as van Poppel can't be split in two and he also has some goals of his own. Maybe Welsford is bringing someone from DSM with him (Edmondson?), Krieger doesn't have a contract and has experience, Kanter is out of contract at Movistar, maybe Cees Bol has nothing to do at astana after Cavs leave? So nothing crazy we just need one-two guys to staff all the races
- then there's the main event: i need two-three guys that really bring my Grand Tour/stage race domestique squad forward as Jungels has to ride his second GT this year not in top notch shape, Konrad started the Tour clearly not ready, Benedeti isn't getting younger, Palzer does nothing for you as shown in the Giro and Politt is also leaving - so a lot of GT real estate to fill even if you consider a fit Schachmann. There are a lot of rumours I just pick experienced guys without a contract that could fit that domestique spot: I would take in Eiking, Martinez + Mühlberger and/or Dombrowski

So that's the transfer window done

 

[AlfaLum]

I would guess they don't replace Politt with a similar rider type. Of course UAE could be paying him a lot of bucks but being the captain for two monuments, on the Team in your country, that also pays well is hard to beat. So I would guess if they don't extend Bora isn't willing to pay that good of a salary as they are further transitioning away from the classics. keeping that dynamic in mind I don't see anyone on the market who can fir that role available and in budget. Küng and laporte extended their deals long term. Basically all other second tier guys are signed through 2025. Maybe Trentin would be the best one available as a swap with UAE. But that guy is 33 and probably the opposite of cheap. Also it's hard to judge how good he would be after doing mostly domestique work.

If I would be the Bora management I would do the following:

- first I would try everything within a reasonable salary to keep Politt (and Konrad)
- if that isn't possible I would accept to pivot away from the belgian classics by not signing a real replacement but keep my powder dry for other specialities -> put more races in Italy and France in the calendar instead
- but as a WT team you need to start a few of those races nevertheless: therefore I would sign Walscheid as a Roubaix expert, 3rd sprinter (replacing Walls), filler for the other cobbled races and possible leadout/RC in a GT
- then you do some calendar adjustements to this year: Jungels will lead the roster in most classics next to Haller and van Poppel so he's out for the Ardennes and the Giro. Denz and Gamper are replacing most of the other schedule of Politt with Denz getting his first real shot to go for his own in some minor classics.
- I use the plus on hillier races outside of Belgium to give Aleotti , Wandahl or Schelling more goals in a season and try to convince at leas two of them to stay
-then besides not giving contracts to Fabbro, Walls, Koretzky I don't care about RB and don't waste a valuable Roster spot an Palzer. He could do the Giro that was his goal, nowI don't think he should do another GT or continue racing in the WT.
- besides taking in 2-3 really young guys from their devo path I try to convince Steinhauser to join because he's fitting really well in to the changed schedule and is one of the three best german talents (where Bora has currently zero under contract which is kind of stupid because most of them were in their orbit)
- Next Up i need to bring a few people that can do a leadout as van Poppel can't be split in two and he also has some goals of his own. Maybe Welsford is bringing someone from DSM with him (Edmondson?), Krieger doesn't have a contract and has experience, Kanter is out of contract at Movistar, maybe Cees Bol has nothing to do at astana after Cavs leave? So nothing crazy we just need one-two guys to staff all the races
- then there's the main event: i need two-three guys that really bring my Grand Tour/stage race domestique squad forward as Jungels has to ride his second GT this year not in top notch shape, Konrad started the Tour clearly not ready, Benedeti isn't getting younger, Palzer does nothing for you as shown in the Giro and Politt is also leaving - so a lot of GT real estate to fill even if you consider a fit Schachmann. There are a lot of rumours I just pick experienced guys without a contract that could fit that domestique spot: I would take in Eiking, Martinez + Mühlberger and/or Dombrowski

So that's the transfer window done

I don’t think Martinez is going to leave Ineos for Bora just to fill a domestique spot.

 

[Reynard]

Of course he can ride for a result from time to time but Bora is not bringing in him to lead the team in major races as Vlasov, Hindley and Higuita are all better in races Martinez could target + Cian probably gets a lot of leading roles in the WT & they still have Schachmann, jungels, Buchmann and Kämna who want to lead some races. I would put Martinez into that category of the latter four. He could be leader at Algarve, maybe even a paris-Nice or Romandie if the calendar of the captains has other races on schedule. Remember Bora is very used to let guys kind of do their thing to keep them happy. But a Martinez gets clearly signed to get in Top shape to be the Top-domestique at the Giro or the Tour. With him, Buchmann and hopefully a healthy preparation by Jungels they have three good climbing domestiques they could spread around the GTs. Martinez could be also used more for a Kämna/Schachmann role with a lot of freedom to go for breaks in the mountains and transition days. I think Bora has two guys you can build a team around in the GTs (Jai and Cian) and they shouldn't sign a rider that isn't in on the plan.

 

[Filippo_3467]

So what's the feeling on the Bora performance in the Tour?

Bottom-line is pretty good with two wins (one iconic stage with the last one), one day in yellow and Hindley looking better than his 7th place in the end would tell us.

On the other side of course it's pretty frustrating that the Hindley crash ruined the perfect Tour with the podium. Plus the support cast was really mixed in their performances.

Konrad: great pull for Hindley on the 5th stage but in the end he was never ready to ride the Tour and miles away from his normal form.

Jungels: Got better throughout the tour, but it was clearly his second GT this year he had to ride with not top form. He is important for the team as a lead domestique but it's sad to see him ride the whole season in this shape.

Buchmann: great start into the Tour. Still not the Buchmann that we saw in 2019 and before his crash in 2020 but he looked close to the Giro from in 2021 and 2022. He then crashed and couldn't help when Hindley needed him most.

Politt: Just really strong. He maybe git famous as 2nd in Roubaix 2019 but for me the role he shines most is GT domestique and stage hunter. His interviews was quite strange and he seemed frustrated at times (even before the shimano incident). He had no real chances to go for his own result and maybe with him leaving the vibes with the team aren't at 100% at the moment.

Haller: Subpar performance in the disciplines that are visible to us observers. Couldn't really do much in the leadout and we also saw him with better climbing legs before.

van Poppel: He was important for Meeus for sure, but he was never in the situation to actually launch him into a sprint.

Meeus: Big win for his career path in Paris. Before that no really good result but also always in bad position to sprint. With is normally good end of season results he could bring himself into the pole position to be Bora's Nr.1 sprinter next year.

A not so relevant - but interesting- observation: the guys Bora is strongly linked to in the transfer market (Martinez and Welsford) had really bad TdFs. I think not that big of a concern but notable. The guys that Bora had relatively easy access to because they are literally developing for their physical eyes (Gall and Zimmermann) had a great TdF and Denk is in the media getting ahead of the story that Bora seems to be unable anymore to spot national talent by giving statements about Gall. It's a pity because it looks like Denk completely lost the script here with his obsession with the GT victories.

The plan for the Vuelta that is known up until now is Vlasov as leader, Cian as protected Co-leader, Kämna in a free role and Higuita as kind of a miscellaneous-also-run-because-he-has-to-ride-a-GT-if-we-want-to-have-him-happy-next-year. Bennett was listed from the start of the season for the Vuelta...and bringing a sprinter makes sense with 4-6 sprint stages. Plus if Philipsen isn't starting the field won't be strong. On the other hand Bennett is leaving and you can't give him the support he needs with at least two protected riders in Vlasov and Cian. A second GT for Meeus would be a bit much too, so my feeling is they will go with a GT and stage hunting team and add two roleurs (Gamper, Denz, Koch or Lührs) together with two domestiques/ break guys (Aleotti, Zwiehoff or Wandahl). Fabbro and Schelling should be out as every sign is pointing to them leaving. Aleotti and Wandahl also have no contract until now but I could see them staying. If not maybe Lipowitz comes in to build on his level with a first GT.

I think starting Hindley or Buchmann doesn't make sense. maybe Hindley could get in stage hunting form but better to rest, attack in the italian fall races and maybe that also fits better with him targeting the Giro again next year. With the GC competition in the Vuelta a podium also doen't seem realistic and in the end the goal should be to get a stage win with Kämna, Higuita or Vlasov + Cian sliding into the 6th to 10th spot in GC with a good performance.

 

[Remy55]

It was a good Tour, but not a great one.
Hindleys crash destroyed the really good chance at a first tour podium.
Konrad was a really big disappointment, Jungels was ok. Buchmann still is not in his best shape, he himself is questioning if he will ever get back there.
Sprint train was mediocre, Meeus win saved them.

For the Vuelta they will bring interestingly a stronger team than at the Tour.
Vlasov, Cian, Kämna and Higuita are already confirmed, Fenk mentioned there is a good chnace Buchmann will go too. Zwiehof was originally planned for this GT and Aleotti too after his early Giro exit.

 

[Red Rick]

Van Poppel was supposedly the best leadout man in the peloton and I don't think I noticed him all Tour apart from some pre stage NOS interview for Limoges.

 

[Filippo_3467]

For the Vuelta they will bring interestingly a stronger team than at the Tour.
Vlasov, Cian, Kämna and Higuita are already confirmed, Fenk mentioned there is a good chnace Buchmann will go too. Zwiehof was originally planned for this GT and Aleotti too after his early Giro exit.

I could see Buchmann as kind of a mountain road captain helping with positioning of Cian but I don't think it's wise to bring him. It's a bit the situation they had with Kämna and Schachmann in the past. Also Konrad is absolutely not at fault for his performance they brought him just because he was the only experienced mountain domestique left standing for this job which is more a planning/transfer issue of the team. Now rushing Buchmann into the Vuelta could be more of the same but let's see. They will give it a few days and then make a plan.

Zwiehoff is riding a strong season. If nothing happens he's the ideal guy for this squad. Lipowitz would deserve it too, but they need some roleurs especially with this Vuelta course. There are only 2-3 real multiple mountain stages - the rest is unipuerto-stages-in disguise and medium mountains. therefore I would really like Denz and Koch there as they can sustain a few hills and smaller mountains. I would personally bet on Gamper getting selected,because he missed out on the Tour and they could have other plans for Koch.

With Politt leaving next year could be pretty straight forward with the roleurs with Denz going to the Tour for Politt and Gamper going back to the Giro. So maybe a good idea to give both a bit of further Gt exposure.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I could see Buchmann as kind of a mountain road captain helping with positioning of Cian but I don't think it's wise to bring him. It's a bit the situation they had with Kämna and Schachmann in the past. Also Konrad is absolutely not at fault for his performance they brought him just because he was the only experienced mountain domestique left standing for this job which is more a planning/transfer issue of the team. Now rushing Buchmann into the Vuelta could be more of the same but let's see. They will give it a few days and then make a plan.

Zwiehoff is riding a strong season. If nothing happens he's the ideal guy for this squad. Lipowitz would deserve it too, but they need some roleurs especially with this Vuelta course. There are only 2-3 real multiple mountain stages - the rest is unipuerto-stages-in disguise and medium mountains. therefore I would really like Denz and Koch there as they can sustain a few hills and smaller mountains. I would personally bet on Gamper getting selected,because he missed out on the Tour and they could have other plans for Koch.

With Politt leaving next year could be pretty straight forward with the roleurs with Denz going to the Tour for Politt and Gamper going back to the Giro. So maybe a good idea to give both a bit of further Gt exposure.

You can‘t put Buchmann and road captain in the same sentence. It‘s simply not possible.

 

[Filippo_3467]

You can‘t put Buchmann and road captain in the same sentence. It‘s simply not possible.

of course that's also not what I wrote. He has years of experiece positioning himself without much help in WT races, doing that with no hectic and minimal effort. That showed for Hindley in the Dauphine and on occasion in the Tour although Jungels was mostly in charge there. This role could be helpful in the Vuelta with two guys the team has to bring up and Kämna/Higuita probably doing there own thing from time to time. I think those instincts and the experience are still there for Buchmann just the legs are not anymore to go for a result.

 

[yaco]

Van Poppel was supposedly the best leadout man in the peloton and I don't think I noticed him all Tour apart from some pre stage NOS interview for Limoges.

Well if the sprinter Meeus loses Van Poppel's wheel then you won't see him at the finish.

 

[Bolder]

It was a good Tour, but not a great one.
Hindleys crash destroyed the really good chance at a first tour podium.
Konrad was a really big disappointment, Jungels was ok. Buchmann still is not in his best shape, he himself is questioning if he will ever get back there.
Sprint train was mediocre, Meeus win saved them.

For the Vuelta they will bring interestingly a stronger team than at the Tour.
Vlasov, Cian, Kämna and Higuita are already confirmed, Fenk mentioned there is a good chnace Buchmann will go too. Zwiehof was originally planned for this GT and Aleotti too after his early Giro exit.

That is a great team. If things break their way Vlasov can podium. Of course I think that about every GT he entered.

 

[Colonel]

Bennet is not in the team for Vuelta
If Cian's bad days in the Vuelta are better than his rivals a top 7-10 if possible for his 1st GT with the level of riders going in.
That may change if Valsov is in contention he may relinquish that free role and be super domestique
Zwiehoff will make a good addition to the team in the mountains and overall

 

[Reynard]

Bennet is not in the team for Vuelta
If Cian's bad days in the Vuelta are better than his rivals a top 7-10 if possible for his 1st GT with the level of riders going in.
That may change if Valsov is in contention he may relinquish that free role and be super domestique
Zwiehoff will make a good addition to the team in the mountains and overall

Bennett is still listed on PCS. Of course it wouldn't be very plausible to bring him but on the other hand they must have extreme good luck to even get a Top 5 with the field in this Vuelta. Of course sometimes the favourite group looks gigantic in the Vuelta and then most are out of shape, but the best teams have multiple good options, a lot of contenders didn't do the Tour and we are still talking Vlasov here who hasn't shown yet at Bora that he can keep up with the best in a GT.

So I would say it's all about stage wins for Bora. Getting two wins would make it a really succesful GT season even without the Top GC results. So with a sprinter you would keep the door open to steal one. Looking at the course even if you want to go without a sprinter you need on most stages a tug buddy to get the climber for the finale into the break. Maybe they should bring 3 roleurs then and cut down on climbing domestiques. There are 5 stage finishes that no one is beating Higuita in a normal Vuelta break without GC contenders (as long as Carapaz & Ciccone are fancying their GC position) but they are unipuerto stages were the break will attack itself and you need to get the approx. 30 kg in the breakaway in a flat start...that could be actually a great thing for Kämna who has the power but then you still need numbers in the group. I just hope the team rides in attacking style and takes a risk like with Hindley in the Tour. They won't be a factor in GC and will loose anyway one-on-one against Remco, Vingegaard, Roglic, Ayuso and Almeida in a finale so their whole roster should be directed to support an attacking riding style -> Therefore I would take Aleotti, Koch, Denz and Haller. Schelling, Politt and Schachmann would be also perfect but are out for different reasons. Gamper, Buchmann and Zwiehoff would be ok decisions but they are more suited to a team that goes there with one leader who isn't the favourite who needs guys to just follow for 90% of the race and position them in the peleton

 

[Statze2]

Bennett is still listed on PCS. Of course it wouldn't be very plausible to bring him but on the other hand they must have extreme good luck to even get a Top 5 with the field in this Vuelta. Of course sometimes the favourite group looks gigantic in the Vuelta and then most are out of shape, but the best teams have multiple good options, a lot of contenders didn't do the Tour and we are still talking Vlasov here who hasn't shown yet at Bora that he can keep up with the best in a GT.

So I would say it's all about stage wins for Bora. Getting two wins would make it a really succesful GT season even without the Top GC results. So with a sprinter you would keep the door open to steal one. Looking at the course even if you want to go without a sprinter you need on most stages a tug buddy to get the climber for the finale into the break. Maybe they should bring 3 roleurs then and cut down on climbing domestiques. There are 5 stage finishes that no one is beating Higuita in a normal Vuelta break without GC contenders (as long as Carapaz & Ciccone are fancying their GC position) but they are unipuerto stages were the break will attack itself and you need to get the approx. 30 kg in the breakaway in a flat start...that could be actually a great thing for Kämna who has the power but then you still need numbers in the group. I just hope the team rides in attacking style and takes a risk like with Hindley in the Tour. They won't be a factor in GC and will loose anyway one-on-one against Remco, Vingegaard, Roglic, Ayuso and Almeida in a finale so their whole roster should be directed to support an attacking riding style -> Therefore I would take Aleotti, Koch, Denz and Haller. Schelling, Politt and Schachmann would be also perfect but are out for different reasons. Gamper, Buchmann and Zwiehoff would be ok decisions but they are more suited to a team that goes there with one leader who isn't the favourite who needs guys to just follow for 90% of the race and position them in the peleton

Vlasov was 5th at Last years Tour und won two one week Stage races, so i think he already proved that he can keep up with the other GC guys

 

[Anderis]

Vlasov was 5th at Last years Tour und won two one week Stage races, so i think he already proved that he can keep up with the other GC guys

There seems to be a big difference between 2022 Vlasov and 2023 Vlasov, though.

und won

Ja!

 

[Remy55]

What is wrong with Higuita? After his fantastic first year at Bora, this whole year is a total disaster

 

[Filippo_3467]

What is wrong with Higuita? After his fantastic first year at Bora, this whole year is a total disaster

I can't follow the Tour de Pologne were I live closely - was there a visible reason for his result? He should be great on finishes like that. Also Kämna really bad - hewould have been the best chance for a result in the GC because of the time trial. Aleotti alo not great so really a disappointing race. Maybe they can save it with a stage win.

Better news in Spain with a 3rd place for Vlasov yesterday and a good 11th from Wandahl today. Wandahl was on a good trajectory before his bad crash in a training ride. It's really great to see him back in competitive shape although a Vuelta spot could come too early after the crah (he was initially on the long list for the roster). On the other side I'm not sure what's wrong with Schachmann again - maybe the crash in Sibiu has still an effect but the reults are not a great sign for the World's next week and his chances to have a good fall classic campaign.

The best news of course are from the Czech Tour. The one-two in the GC is maybe a bit deceptive because Staune-Mittet was a DNS today and the race had a bit of a weaker field than last year, but that was really a strong showing from Lipowitz who was a reliable domestique in smaller races but that was a massive step up. Also Zwiehoff continues to grow as a rider. Both should be now strong contenders for a Vuelta spot. Lipowitz already mentioned that he will ride Burgos next. The Vuelta starts in a month so let's see if the form can hold up.

Vlasov was 5th at Last years Tour und won two one week Stage races, so i think he already proved that he can keep up with the other GC guys

I disagree. He was never competitive for a GC win or a GC podium. The 5th place in the Tour sounds nice but he was never close even to the level of Thomas. Hindley got only 7th this year but showed a higher level within the race then Vlasov last year. Let's see - I think the jury is still out if Vlasov can be a GC leader for the Team going forward especially with the development of Cian progressing further and further. A good Vuelta result against this field could prove it & San Sebastian should give the team some hope that he can get there with his form.

 

[Marco-Sun]

Season ends somehow mediocore/ not good for Bora this year. To my understanding many riders had a not so good season and are therefore also question marks.

Riders which are on the roster next year but had a not so promising season this year are Buchmann (not sure how to use him next season), Higuita (what happened with him?), Jungels (in case they expect more of him than being a road captain), Schachmann (will he become strong again?), Vlasov (not really disappointing but too weak to fight about GT Podium in the upcoming years).

This leaves a quite tricky situation how to approach the 3 GT's next year. My proposal would be to go with the following captains to the Giro -> Cian (clearly most promising GT rider, long steady climbs should suit him better than punchy ones in the Vuelta, TDF too early), Buchmann (mainly GT support), Kämna (free role, aggressive GT rider), Jungels (good connection to Cian)

With this Giro line-up Tour would be a head scratcher... Hindley, Vlasov, Martinez to battle out which is the most promising GT rider ... but this would be just possible with Schachmann being in shape to go for stages and being the german Tour hero or if they switch Kämna (Tour) with Hindley (Giro)... nevertheless none of the mentioned riders are in a Position to really fight for the Tour win or the podium since I expect the Tour to be way more stacked than this year.

Vuelta is difficult to predict... Higuita should get the Chance there bit not as GT hope, maybe Lipowitz in a free role and then others from the mentioned above... maybe Vlasov since he is the best of this team in short punchy climbs.

But overall I think the Team should again Focus more on aggressive stage racing in the GT's than riding about places between 5-10 with too many riders.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Season ends somehow mediocore/ not good for Bora this year. To my understanding many riders had a not so good season and are therefore also question marks.

Riders which are on the roster next year but had a not so promising season this year are Buchmann (not sure how to use him next season), Higuita (what happened with him?), Jungels (in case they expect more of him than being a road captain), Schachmann (will he become strong again?), Vlasov (not really disappointing but too weak to fight about GT Podium in the upcoming years).

This leaves a quite tricky situation how to approach the 3 GT's next year. My proposal would be to go with the following captains to the Giro -> Cian (clearly most promising GT rider, long steady climbs should suit him better than punchy ones in the Vuelta, TDF too early), Buchmann (mainly GT support), Kämna (free role, aggressive GT rider), Jungels (good connection to Cian)

With this Giro line-up Tour would be a head scratcher... Hindley, Vlasov, Martinez to battle out which is the most promising GT rider ... but this would be just possible with Schachmann being in shape to go for stages and being the german Tour hero or if they switch Kämna (Tour) with Hindley (Giro)... nevertheless none of the mentioned riders are in a Position to really fight for the Tour win or the podium since I expect the Tour to be way more stacked than this year.

Vuelta is difficult to predict... Higuita should get the Chance there bit not as GT hope, maybe Lipowitz in a free role and then others from the mentioned above... maybe Vlasov since he is the best of this team in short punchy climbs.

But overall I think the Team should again Focus more on aggressive stage racing in the GT's than riding about places between 5-10 with too many riders.

I think it's now pretty clear how Buchmann will be used after the Tour and the Vuelta. he will be in the mountain domestique pool with Jungels and Martinez. He was often in the last 15 or 20 riders from the GC group. It hink he can do better based on previous results, but he never will be GT captain again that ship has sailed. If he's fine with that role then it's a good way to extend his career on a good level.

Higuita will not ride a GT in 24 and will leave Bora at the end of his contract - at least that is what I expect. Two absolutely horrible Vuelta starts and a bad fit with the team aspirations. Probably they will talk about a Vuelta start at the start of the year so that he is motivated to collect a lot of UCI Tours in the one weeks but I think they will again try to go to the Vuelta with a similar plan then this year and Higuita just gives you nothing for that.

I think the Giro should be the main target for the team together with a better spring campaign in the one weeks and sprinting. Of course the Tour is the biggest stage in Germany but it is not necessary to waste GC potential on a fight with Jonas, Roglic, Pogi, Remco and maybe even Ayuso. Maybe one of them will also start the Giro but the field there will be much lighter. So Hindley to go for the podium with the best support they can bring. For the Tour then light sprint train together with Kämna and maybe Vlasov as he should have a schedule that allows him to go for results in Romandie and other one week races. maybe Martinez in a stage hunting role as well.

For the Giro I would go with something like this: Hindley, Buchmann, Jungels, Sobrero, Gamper, Denz - and then from that point you have a few posibilites.


Cian - Although I would lean more to a similar plan then this year. Go for a podium in a WT one week and then Vuelta with full leadership. I would even like the Tour because he would have no pressure to come Top 5 with that field.

Martinez - normally good in the spring campaign. Tour and Vuelta double would be nice in my view

Zwiehoff - was a bit disapointed in his Vuelta. He clearly gets better every year, hopefully another step is incoming.

Lipowitz - in my eyes not a pure climbing domestique but could be a nice addition. Maybe Vuelta is the better choice in 24.

Aleotti - if extended - or benedetti - if not retireing - would be other possible choices.

very early Long-list Tour: Mullen, van Poppel, Meuus/Welsford, Haller, Schachmann, Kämna, Martinez, Koch, Vlasov

And then maybe a youthful Vuelta GC team with some veteran backup: Cian, Lührs, Adria, Lipowitz, Jungels, Martinez, Buchmann, X


They only have 22 riders confirmed until now. I think the most places will be filled by riders already riding for the team, but a few new faces should be there as well.