Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[Links2003]

Bora became a GC focused team in recent years. It's just about Rog either, i.e. they'd started down that route with Hindley and Vlasov as well. Now Lipowitz is also part of that same plan (he's scheduled to race Itzulia next week and can realistically target a top 5 or even a podium).

The classics teams meanwhile looks like a typical case of throwing some names together and hoping it sticks. Whatever the plan was it hasn't worked out yet.

Of course, the team's focus is now on the stage races. I would say that's working quite well. Even with the helpers.

However, the classics should be given more priority again. And most of the additions in winter were also from this segment or all-rounders.

Of course, a team has to find its feet when it is newly formed. The leader on whom everything is focused is probably also missing. This often leads to everyone being a bit worse than they could be.

Nevertheless, many riders are apparently not at the level the team had hoped for individually this year. If there are still far more than 50 riders together in the “easier” classics and then perhaps 2 Bora riders are still there without really getting involved in the race, then something is wrong. Especially when the chances of winning are slim and the form is generally not right, I would like to see more courageous racing. Then I might just try it with an early group. But unfortunately that doesn't happen either. The offensive riding style is something that we actually wanted to strengthen and not just this year.

 

[MLKarlos]

The races so far have been far from perfect, I think everyone agrees on this, especially the people from the team. Over the last few days I stumbled over a few explanations:

"Es hat überhaupt nicht funktioniert" – Red-Bull-Bora-hansgrohe Sportdirektor Rolf Aldag nach E3 Saxo Classic 2025 - cyclingmagazine

www.cyclingmagazine.de

Video from Rolf Aldag where he admits that they had bad luck and that it was a shittty race.

Zij ontgoochelen tot dusver: wat is er aan de hand met Matej Mohoric, Oier Lazkano en Ethan Hayter? | sporza

Niet enkel Arnaud De Lie is dit voorjaar op de sukkel. Ook andere kopmannen zoals Matej Mohoric en Oier Lazkano komen helemaal niet uit de verf in de klassiekers. Wat is er aan de hand? We klopten aan bij hun teams.

sporza.be

Interview about Lazkano which states that he was sick several times this spring and is simply not in shape.

Laurence Pithie waarschuwt ondanks Visma-syndroom en valse start voor Red Bull: 'Ik ben beter dan ooit'

Er werden miljoenen tegenaan gesmeten en tijdens de

www.indeleiderstrui.nl

Interview with Pithie where he states that he made a steps this winter but had super bad luck in the last few races.

 

[Links2003]

The races so far have been far from perfect, I think everyone agrees on this, especially the people from the team. Over the last few days I stumbled over a few explanations:

"Es hat überhaupt nicht funktioniert" – Red-Bull-Bora-hansgrohe Sportdirektor Rolf Aldag nach E3 Saxo Classic 2025 - cyclingmagazine

www.cyclingmagazine.de

Video from Rolf Aldag where he admits that they had bad luck and that it was a shittty race.

Zij ontgoochelen tot dusver: wat is er aan de hand met Matej Mohoric, Oier Lazkano en Ethan Hayter? | sporza

Niet enkel Arnaud De Lie is dit voorjaar op de sukkel. Ook andere kopmannen zoals Matej Mohoric en Oier Lazkano komen helemaal niet uit de verf in de klassiekers. Wat is er aan de hand? We klopten aan bij hun teams.

sporza.be

Interview about Lazkano which states that he was sick several times this spring and is simply not in shape.

Laurence Pithie waarschuwt ondanks Visma-syndroom en valse start voor Red Bull: 'Ik ben beter dan ooit'

Er werden miljoenen tegenaan gesmeten en tijdens de

www.indeleiderstrui.nl

Interview with Pithie where he states that he made a steps this winter but had super bad luck in the last few races.

Thank you for the compilation. I think the team is making it a bit too easy for them. Of course, they've also had bad luck in races with crashes (like Pithie again today) or illnesses. But across the board, the team has had problems in the classics so far. Of course, there's also the issue of self-confidence.
Success leads to self-confidence. This automatically makes you more courageous and less likely to get into bad situations. A good result can make a big difference.

Nevertheless, many components are a problem. When you see which drivers are still involved in the finals of the races. Which teams still have a lot of drivers. That shows that there are problems across the board.

 

[Statze2]

Thank you for the compilation. I think the team is making it a bit too easy for them. Of course, they've also had bad luck in races with crashes (like Pithie again today) or illnesses. But across the board, the team has had problems in the classics so far. Of course, there's also the issue of self-confidence.
Success leads to self-confidence. This automatically makes you more courageous and less likely to get into bad situations. A good result can make a big difference.

Nevertheless, many components are a problem. When you see which drivers are still involved in the finals of the races. Which teams still have a lot of drivers. That shows that there are problems across the board.

Yes, thats true. I think the team has as an Organisation to less experience in the classics in the post covid time. For me its obvious that the Team as a whole (Riders, Sports directors, staff etc) need to gain that experience, especially in how to win and „dominate“ classics. I Hope that they will Ride more of the smaller races in the next year. To just show up in the big and famous races and think you can be competitive is very ambitious and you Need to be very strong.
And yes some riders can be that strong (Pithie, Meeus and Lazkano) but due to different circumstance they are not as good as everyone hoped. So maybe try a different approach next year.

 

[Heston]

Any news on Pithie after yesterday's crash?

 

[search]

Any news on Pithie after yesterday's crash?

haven't read anything, but according to his Strava, Pithie continued to the finish, just skipping the circuit in the end.

 

[MLKarlos]

Suprisingly strong TT from red Bull today.

 

[Filippo_3467]

i really was quite pessimistic before the season but up until now Red Bull one of the worst teams pound for pound. They bought half the team with probably very expensive contracts and have not much to show for it outside of Lipowitz and Roglic.

Classics Squad - a desaster with best result coming from Meeus (9th in Gent-Wevelgem)
Uncompetitive in San remo and basically everytime against high level opponents in gc, classics, tt, hills and sprints.
Their Ardennes Squad looks absolute dogs*it in Itzulia at the moment.


With one of the super budgets in the sport they should be able to compete at the highest level with multiple riders. But they have only 1 that could be considered a top 5 rider in his speciality. In a lot of areas on the calendar they are not even competitive. They made more out of their budget before Red Bull came along.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

i really was quite pessimistic before the season but up until now Red Bull one of the worst teams pound for pound. They bought half the team with probably very expensive contracts and have not much to show for it outside of Lipowitz and Roglic.

Classics Squad - a desaster with best result coming from Meeus (9th in Gent-Wevelgem)
Uncompetitive in San remo and basically everytime against high level opponents in gc, classics, tt, hills and sprints.
Their Ardennes Squad looks absolute dogs*it in Itzulia at the moment.


With one of the super budgets in the sport they should be able to compete at the highest level with multiple riders. But they have only 1 that could be considered a top 5 rider in his speciality. In a lot of areas on the calendar they are not even competitive. They made more out of their budget before Red Bull came along.

Fully agree.

It's weird, they've transitioned to a GC team at what feels like the cost of everything else they were good at. I'm also not giving them credit for Roglics performances, he has basically continued his Jumbo Visma level and I don't think he had a particulary impressive team performance behind him in his GC victories so far.
At the same time, they're showing nothing in the classics, have very little sprint success (basically that Meeus victory at Algarve but I cant think of anything else) and are a breakaway no show.
They used to be an excellent team regarding aggressive tactical ideas, playing to Sagans strength plenty of times, the Torino stage in the Giro 22, the Hindley stage win at the Tour etc. For a while now they havent done anything remotely.

Guys like Vlasov seem to have regressed and I also don't understand their team selections. Obviously hindsight is 20/20 but Hindley seemed to be in good form early on but was wasted on a Tirreno course that had one single Unipuerto climb. Meanwhile Lipowitz could've actually used some options in PN but had a very meh team behind him.
And like you said, their squad for one day races has been a joke, a team of that budget shouldn't have to line up freaking Anton Palzer for Strade!

 

[CyclistAbi]

With one of the super budgets in the sport they should be able to compete at the highest level with multiple riders. But they have only 1 that could be considered a top 5 rider in his speciality. In a lot of areas on the calendar they are not even competitive. They made more out of their budget before Red Bull came along.

Multiple riders on the highest level would currently mean that Roglič, Pogačar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel, van der Poel and van Aert. That you would need to sign more of them. Red Bull has Roglič and is hence able to consistently compete on highest level when it comes to stage racing, UAE has Pogačar and is hence able to compete on highest level when it comes to stage racing and classics, Visma has Vingegaard and is hence able to compete o highest level when it comes to stage racing and van Aert and is hence able to compete on highest level when it comes to classics. Soudal has Evenepoel and is hence able to compete on highest level when it comes to stage racing and classics. Alpecin has van der Poel and is hence able to compete on highest level when it comes to classics.

Point being highest level of competition in pro peloton comes down to a rather narrow selection and having multiple riders at your disposal is luxury currently only Visma has. When it comes to money alone Ineos is a nice example on how it's not enough to have a bag full of money.

As for the level of some other riders, currently behind highest level. Here different teams do have more options and here a question could be valid, especially comparing to UAE. Visma for example has Jorgenson but it's UAE that seems to managed to develop their riders, beyond Pogačar, to be rather competitive. Here currently nobody in my opinion matches UAE hence it is true that Red Bull has some work left to do. Said that lets wait for GT season to start. Could be that Red Bull is currently just building up for that. Lets not forget in 2024 season they won a GT and were a runner up in another one. Only UAE topped that with Pogi. So if Red Bull can match that or to do even better in the 2025 season, then they are still doing a great job, it's just that priorities changed.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDF1BZQ8d04

 

[Filippo_3467]

Multiple riders on the highest level would currently mean that Roglič, Pogačar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel, van der Poel and van Aert. That you would need to sign more of them. Red Bull has Roglič and is hence able to consistently compete on highest level when it comes to stage racing, UAE has Pogačar and is hence able to compete on highest level when it comes to stage racing and classics, Visma has Vingegaard and is hence able to compete o highest level when it comes to stage racing and van Aert and is hence able to compete on highest level when it comes to classics. Soudal has Evenepoel and is hence able to compete on highest level when it comes to stage racing and classics. Alpecin has van der Poel and is hence able to compete on highest level when it comes to classics.

Point being highest level of competition in pro peloton comes down to a rather narrow selection and having multiple riders at your disposal is luxury currently only Visma has. When it comes to money alone Ineos is a nice example on how it's not enough to have a bag full of money.

As for the level of some other riders, currently behind highest level. Here different teams do have more options and here a question could be valid, especially comparing to UAE. Visma for example has Jorgenson but it's UAE that seems to managed to develop their riders, beyond Pogačar, to be rather competitive. Here currently nobody in my opinion matches UAE hence it is true that Red Bull has some work left to do. Said that lets wait for GT season to start. Could be that Red Bull is currently just building up for that. Lets not forget in 2024 season they won a GT and were a runner up in another one. Only UAE topped that with Pogi. So if Red Bull can match that or to do even better in the 2025 season, then they are still doing a great job, it's just that priorities changed.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDF1BZQ8d04

I see highest level more broader than that. For me it means being competitive for the big wins with some of the best there. Tha of course highly depends on the race but for it is not just having one of the Big 5 (where it is even questionable if WvA should be mentioned there) They also have no one in the Pedersen, Ganna, Jorgensen, Pidcock, Ayuso, Almeida, Milan, Merlier, Philippsen- Tier. UAE is of course light years ahead of all other Teams. But Jumbo, Lidl and even ineos are better this year all with smaller budgets. Ineos and Lidl missing the GC power of course but Lidl has a top tier classic squad all year round and the second best sprinter in the world imo. Ineos maybe will be behind Red Bull after the GTs but they also have Ganna and Tarling who can be competitive with anyone in the world in TT and some classics.

Like I said it is pound for pound. Red Bull should be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world with a clear gap to teams like Soudal and Ineos. They should be closer to UAE than those teams. They aren't so they are performing poorly. They were a better team before covid in my eyes although of course not competitive in GT GCs. They will just continue to throw money at the problem which should be successful but up until now it hasn't worked in 2025. Probably they will be already out of the competition again 100k before the finish in Rouabix and that should not be acceptable.

 

[Red Rick]

Their recruitment strategy apart from Sagan and Roglic has been to sign loads of second tier contenders after a hot patch hoping they magically make the next step, which IMO isn't the best strategy if you don't have your own training structure in order.

I think Roglic has mostly been fine because he brought his own trainer with him.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I see highest level more broader than that. For me it means being competitive for the big wins with some of the best there.

Here we need to be realistic. That is IMHO we can be rather lucky such a thing as big 6 exists, it could be much less.

Pedersen, Ganna, Jorgensen, Pidcock, Ayuso, Almeida, Milan, Merlier, Philippsen- Tier.

This is good tier but if Red Bull would sign any of them that might not had changed much in terms of securing big wins. Red Bull wanted to sign Remco and presumably Wout, that would likely indeed push them into a position of being competitive in both stage racing and classics. Instantly. Mentioned riders opted to stay at their respective teams so there is that.

So beyond that in my opinion they are doing a good job with Lipowitz, one major signing in my eyes is Martínez. Paired with Hindley, Vlasov and Roglič. If they by any chance utilise this combo to the fullest, then they can win all stage races and around two monuments easily. If they would to sign any established rider from the mentioned group that could become problematic, due to expectations. Full support needed and a guarantee of the win still rather moot. Do you take such rider to the Tour, or not?

Red Bull should be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world with a clear gap to teams like Soudal and Ineos. They should be closer to UAE than those teams.

IMHO they are there already. Maybe not at one day races just yet but at stage racing they often end up 1st or 2nd and i feel that this will become much more apparent going deeper in the season.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Here we are currently in regards to Red Bull season so far. Big things are still to come.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Here we need to be realistic. That is IMHO we can be rather lucky such a thing as big 6 exists, it could be much less.



This is good tier but if Red Bull would sign any of them that might not had changed much in terms of securing big wins. Red Bull wanted to sign Remco and presumably Wout, that would likely indeed push them into a position of being competitive in both stage racing and classics. Instantly. Mentioned riders opted to stay at their respective teams so there is that.

So beyond that in my opinion they are doing a good job with Lipowitz, one major signing in my eyes is Martínez. Paired with Hindley, Vlasov and Roglič. If they by any chance utilise this combo to the fullest, then they can win all stage races and around two monuments easily. If they would to sign any established rider from the mentioned group that could become problematic, due to expectations. Full support needed and a guarantee of the win still rather moot. Do you take such rider to the Tour, or not?



IMHO they are there already. Maybe not at one day races just yet but at stage racing they often end up 1st or 2nd and i feel that this will become much more apparent going deeper in the season.

I actually think that van Gils and Pithie are the most consequential signings if they have still 2-3 steps available in their development. I think the goal was to get into that second tier with those guys... let's see if that will happen. I'm not impressed with how Martinez, hindley and Vlasov go overall in the last years although they have their moments and score points. Still even with martinez getting a second in the Giro I won't call him a Top 15 GC guy in the world. The field was just atrocious.

I don't think they are there. They are maybe the 5th or 6th best team in the world an to me this is too m uch on the back of one guy. Last year they had only 2 riders in the Top 50 in the PCS ranking (which is more realistic then the UCI ranking because points are not assigned so lopsided) and were the 5th best team. This year up until now they are the 6th best with 3 riders in the Top 50. Don't think the results are there to call them really a top team. Even as a new World Tour team with a way smaller budget + Sagen they weren't as dependend on Sagan than now on Roglic for results.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Filippo_3467

Indeed i feel that too, some of the signings to have good potential to develop well. And some of the more already developed riders to have potential to show more in the future. As for the other part, for me personally it's a non issue, they being so dependant on Rogla for results. All the teams with top guns are, Visma maybe the only one with two superstars in the same team. As for ranking Red Bull so low, lets first do Giro, then the Tour ... That will be a good indicator on where they currently stack.

If Red Bull wins both then they can't be that bad!

 

[Filippo_3467]

@Filippo_3467

Indeed i feel that too, some of the signings to have good potential to develop well. And some of the more already developed riders to have potential to show more in the future. As for the other part, for me personally it's a non issue, they being so dependant on Rogla for results. All the teams with top guns are, Visma maybe the only one with two superstars in the same team. As for ranking Red Bull so low, lets first do Giro, then the Tour ... That will be a good indicator on where they currently stack.

If Red Bull wins both then they can't be that bad!

For sure. You can't argue against winning yet another GT. It won't be easy for Roglic and a lot can happen. But he is of course the overwhelming favourite for the Giro. Team seems to be also decent for the Giro although they should add one or two more engines to the provisional startlist as they will have to control a lot.

In the end honestly I don't think it will change too much for me personally. Because I already factored in Roglic winning the Giro and then getting absolutely destroyed in the Tour once again (if he can even finish it without good roleurs protecting him).

I think my assesment would may more positive if Red Bull has someone in the fight for the victory in Roubaix or van Gils can win a Race in the hill classics.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Filippo_3467

As for Rogla, we shouldn't take anything for granted, said that and in regards to the sentiment, Red Bull must be doing something right. That is there are a lot of decent teams out there and most can only dream about being in such position. As for Rogla and the Tour, lets first get to there. All in all Rogla is in a good place now and that should get reflected at the Tour. First goal being to finish it, for the first time since 2020. As for destroying the competition, that comes naturally to Rogla and i don't worry about that.

As for the PR, bar Visma having Wout and maybe Pogi will be a factor for UAE, all the main favourites are not from teams capable of winning the Tour. It's hard to combine this two categories of racing in a single team if the idea is to win both the Tour and PR.

It's just that currently Red Bull is more of a stage race oriented team and that is not a bad thing. It would be rather crazy if they would not embrace the opportunity, considering they have a top competitor in their team and support team should be crazy strong if in form and motivated. With roster they have they can destroy UAE, Visma, Soudal ... As for doing that at for example PR, ATM and IMHO only if they get lucky.

The question hence is will they? Utilise all the potential they have to the fullest.

 

[Links2003]

It's a bit disappointing that things haven't gone well in the classics so far, but that can still be explained. It's also important to grow together as a team. It often helps, not only in these races, to have a clear leader then everyone often rides stronger. That's what's missing. But of course some riders have also been completely disappointing

What I find more worrying is what happened at the Itzulia Basque Country. The time trial was good. But the stages afterwards? On paper, almost everyone should be able to be there at the end of most of the stages. But most of them are far from that at the moment.
What I don't understand, and not just in this race: why aren't they riding actively? Groups are filled? No. So that everyone gets a chance. UAE shows this clearly. To work on your luck. But they don't even try to do that and I don't understand that.

Lipowitz is having a really great year, Roglic is already in form. Adria has also had a good spring so far. But then it starts to get thin. Pellizari has been very good recently. Some riders had good races. But generally not enough as they don't ride actively at all. That's exactly what they set out to do 2-3 years ago and then showed in part. Too bad.

 

[Faserr]

I think they will be really strong at Paris-Roubaix. At the moment they don't get everyone into really good shape. On the other hand guys like Lipowitz really overperform big time.
It's not easy to get everyone into top shape like UAE. Visma also has big problems this year. I also think the Bora guys don't race well together because all the new riders try to get a good position in the team.

 

[Filippo_3467]

I think they will be really strong at Paris-Roubaix. At the moment they don't get everyone into really good shape. On the other hand guys like Lipowitz really overperform big time.
It's not easy to get everyone into top shape like UAE. Visma also has big problems this year. I also think the Bora guys don't race well together because all the new riders try to get a good position in the team.

Unfortunately Rouabix was another bummer for the team. Strong position with lazkano in the break early on and then two guys in the split after Arenberg. But when the big guns putting on the pressure they aren't good enough for even the second Tier in a Monument.

maybe the Ardennes will be redemption time. On paper they have the riders for great results...Adria, van Gils and Fisher-Black had problems in Itzulia but on paper they should be good enough for Top10s in Amstel, Fleche and Liege.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yeah, as we were saying, realistically there are 2 riders in it for the win ATM, at a race such as PR, one of them being contender in regards to GC racing too. So currently you can have all the money in the world and you just won't be competitive over night in one day races. On the plus side and for Red Bull, and as we were saying, time to bring out the big guns and looking forward to that: