Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[AmRacer]

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[CyclistAbi]

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Mostly finishing as overall winner or to DNF. So your prediction, on how Rogla will finish this Tour edition, then to go on and say he won't win. That just makes less sense, based on the stats.

 

[AmRacer]

Mostly finishing as overall winner or to DNF. So your prediction, on how Rogla will finish this Tour edition, then to go on and say he won't win. That just makes less sense, based on the stats.

Based on stats, Rogla has never finished ahead of both Jonas and Tadej, and he crashes more than most with DNF

 

[Cycling111]

Mostly finishing as overall winner or to DNF. So your prediction, on how Rogla will finish this Tour edition, then to go on and say he won't win. That just makes less sense, based on the stats.

These statistics are offset by the GT races outside the Tour. Roglic has finished one Tour and he didn´t won it.
Last year, when he retired, he was more than two minutes behind Pogacar.
Statistically, the probability is that he won't win the Tour.

When talking about the Tour, it's better to focus on the Tour results, not the Giro and Vuelta statistics.

 

[Links2003]

We will have to see how Lipowitz does at the Dauphine.
If Lipo doesn't look great, maybe Bora should think about stage hunting Le Tour instead.

RBH will only decide after the Dauphine whether Lipo will go to the Tour at all. The decision has nothing to do with whether he should ride the Tour on GC. That is certainly not the intention as his planned highlight is the Dauphine. So it shouldn't matter how good Lipo is at the Dauphine what the tactics are for the Tour. But I'm also curious to see who of the 14 riders on the long list will actually go and whether Meeus will be there.

 

[11-34]

I can't shake the feeling, that the Dauphine will actually be the cycling highlight this year, because everyone is there and 100% trained up and motivated.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Based on stats, Rogla has never finished ahead of both Jonas and Tadej, and he crashes more than most with DNF

These statistics are offset by the GT races outside the Tour. Roglic has finished one Tour and he didn´t won it.
Last year, when he retired, he was more than two minutes behind Pogacar.
Statistically, the probability is that he won't win the Tour.

When talking about the Tour, it's better to focus on the Tour results, not the Giro and Vuelta statistics.

There is always first time when doing something, as for the stats, they are rather clear. When finishing statistically the most likely scenario is to win the overall.

RBH will only decide after the Dauphine whether Lipo will go to the Tour at all. The decision has nothing to do with whether he should ride the Tour on GC. That is certainly not the intention as his planned highlight is the Dauphine. So it shouldn't matter how good Lipo is at the Dauphine what the tactics are for the Tour. But I'm also curious to see who of the 14 riders on the long list will actually go and whether Meeus will be there.

In general selection should be made objectively and based on factors like form, desire to support the leader ... The rest can compete in other races, calendar is full of opportunities for that. Stage hunting or sprinting at the Tour, IMHO that is currently out of the picture completely.

 

[AmRacer]

There is always first time when doing something, as for the stats, they are rather clear. When finishing statistically the most likely scenario is to win the overall.



In general selection should be made objectively and based on factors like form, desire to support the leader ... The rest can compete in other races, calendar is full of opportunities for that. Stage hunting or sprinting at the Tour, IMHO that is currently out of the picture completely.

The most likely statically scenario is Rogla crashes and DNF, again.

 

[Potomac]

Roglic can't possibly be riding the tour for GC. He will be stage hunting, unless Lipo looks good, in which case he will ride for Lipo.

 

[Potomac]

Roglic hasn't finished a Tour since 2020, It would be a bad idea for a team to pin GC hopes on him this year.

He's is one of my favorite riders but wishing him success won't make it true. He needs to be a stage hunter. It's best for him and best for the team.

 

[acm]

Roglic can't possibly be riding the tour for GC. He will be stage hunting, unless Lipo looks good, in which case he will ride for Lipo.

Hahahaha

 

[Hugh Januss]

@AmRacer

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Stats don't seem to support your claim.

According to your stats if Eddy raced the tour this year he'd win easily.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Hugh Januss

Basically all from the list can IMHO hold their own, yes. Anyway. I don't plan to widen this debate. If something specific to Roglič was not said yet, best to continue in Rogličes thread. We after all did a whole page and a loop already. That should do it for now.

 

[Potomac]

So we all concur, Lipo for GC at the tour with Roglic has mountain domestique and stage hunting as the smartest strategy for Bora.

Excellent.

 

[Red Rick]

Ofcourse Roglic should race for GC. He's the 3rd best GT rider in the world til proven otherwise and saying he shouldn't go for GC is like saying only 2 guys should even bother trying. It's a completely unserious position

But you should also be ready to get in the right breakaways for even without Roglic crashing. Don't take a sprinter, cause they simply don't have a sprinter that level.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Potomac

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Lets see if youngsters are ready and i don't know what exactly you are proposing, due to wording used.
Lipowitz to ride for GC at the Tour while Roglič stage hunting? I mean if others will let him, Rogla for sure can go stage hunting too. More than fine by Rogla and especially due to Rogla not being considered as pre race favourite, so nobody to worry about GC seconds either.

P.S. Lets not forget old goats won a GT and been a runner up at another GT in the 2024 season, only UAE did better. Multiple teams tried to achieved that and all failed. If now youngsters are ready, to push the bar even higher, rest assured that Rogla isn't standing in the way of that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for stage hunting at the Tour and in general, good luck with that one, for whomever tries it. This element of cycling nowadays mostly used for sponsors, getting some air time.

Now what i expect from the Tour team is mostly to be focused on damage control. For example strategically placed rider(s) all over the important stages. Realistically you can't expect for anybody outside Rogla to survive, when other favourites attacking. Key here is hence to have rider(s) ahead, the ones that are beside you are important but likely and quickly become a non factor. I don't expect Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe, for the most part of the race, to control anything at all. They should be inclined not to, as why? Deeper into the race and if desired, then to position Rogla for stomp, although rather not at all at a GT race. Inside the bunch, riding, here is on where most of the times another rider crashes and takes down Rogla. Here i don't feel that using a strategy to always be ahead is all that feasible. So in the end Rogla will have to trust the bunch, again. Team members somewhat around. There is some potential to form strong alliances, for that Rogla doesn't have full control.

So all in all Rogla won't win stomping, won't win playing Pogi or Jonas game, can win by being consistent and by utilising strong damage control. Utilising strong satellite riders and making allies fast in between main favourites, chasing. TT-ing needs to be rather stellar. Beyond that being Rogla, relaxed, and that is in the end more than enough.

Reconnaissance in terms of stellar positioning on exposed sections of some stage, that is something worth investing effort into. We'll see. Personally i am rather relaxed in terms of Rogla getting what i wrote above.

 

[MLKarlos]

Any rumors for incoming riders for next season out there?

 

[Berniece]

Ofcourse Roglic should race for GC. He's the 3rd best GT rider in the world til proven otherwise

It was disproven last year at the TDF.

 

[acm]

Not really.

 

[CyclistAbi]

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Regarding the 2024 season and GT power division.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Alles für den Speed

Ein Champion, ein Talent und ein Tüftler: zu Besuch bei drei Vorreitern, die mit dem Team Red Bull- BORA-hansgrohe die Grenzen des Radsports verschieben wollen.

www.redbull.com

A champion, a talent, and a tinkerer: a visit to three pioneers who want to push the boundaries of cycling with the Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe team.

 

[Links2003]

Any rumors for incoming riders for next season out there?

I only heard something about Veermersch I think.

What they definitely need is a sprinter. Unfortunately, Welsford doesn't get any results outside of Australia. What a pity.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I assume that the long term plan is to position themself as an AAA team, signing a top notch sprinter hence in my opinion doesn't necessarily align with such goal. Considering they have the top notch stage racing orientated rider and a few older and proven goats, maybe the best strategy is to sign a few more talented youngsters in terms of stage racing. In terms of classics i feel that they are doing a good job, with signings, what might be missing is a more proven and mature classics rider, as youngsters are now rather exposed and constantly under scrutiny, that is IMHO not good for their development.

P.S. Unless i guess Rogla to jump in, to help, once winning all stage races.

 

[Links2003]

I assume that the long term plan is to position themself as an AAA team, signing a top notch sprinter hence in my opinion doesn't necessarily align with such goal. Considering they have the top notch stage racing orientated rider and a few older and proven goats, maybe the best strategy is to sign a few more talented youngsters in terms of stage racing. In terms of classics i feel that they are doing a good job, with signings, what might be missing is a more proven and mature classics rider, as youngsters are now rather exposed and constantly under scrutiny, that is IMHO not good for their development.

P.S. Unless i guess Rogla to jump in, to help, once winning all stage races.

I agree with you that a top sprinter doesn't suit the team's direction. But a sprinter from the second row would be a good fit. You can get good results in smaller races and ideally a few wins and get pressure from the team.

You've seen that this year, where a lot of things didn't go well. A few good results or victories would lift the mood. And that would make it easier to achieve success again.