Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[shadowrider]

Losing much weight while training to get in peak shape, is not possible without risking performance. As far as my basic knowledge goes, sportsnutritionists will tell you to lose the weight during off-season / off-peak periods. Ironically, that's the time our boy uses to do the exact opposite. Slow weight loss can help performance, fast weight loss impedes it, specifically strength and anaerobic performance. Basically, it's not just getting to your best optimal weight, but how you reach it is even more important. The difference between Vuelta '22 and '23.

Basically there is no way he will be at optimal GC weight AND optimal GC form at the same time, in time for the TDF.

Ironically, that's the time our boy uses to do the exact opposite.

It's a pity that you come here again to tell untruths. I don't know one topathlete losing weight during off-season. The point is not to gain too much (dead) weight. Especially fat. Some riders (f.i. Evenepoel) gain also more muscles in the upper body during off-season and off-peak periods.
In the case of Evenepoel, it was not an off-peak period, but a rest- and recoveryperiod after serious injurys. Even worse, fractures. In such a case, following a diet that is too strict in order not to gain weight is irresponsible and counterproductive.
The problem with Evenepoel is that he gains more muscles and weight than other riders (f.i. Vingegaard, Roglic). Due to his physique and metabolism. So, it's normal to have some weight issues, coming back from fractures in such a short time.

It is scientifically more appropriate to start a GT with half a kilo or a kilo too much (which is of course a disadvantage) than start that GT with the ideal weight after a forced diet (which is very unhealthy and can even lead to a serious breakdown). Anyway, Evenepoel would have been on his ideal weight not having crashed, not having fractured bones, not having to rest, recover etc. So, the crash was/is the problem. Not the guidance of the team, dietician, trainer.
I also suggest that you apply with your "expertise" as a dietician and/or trainer for a large cycling team.

 

[Froome]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1802778068538298493

View: https://x.com/soudalquickstep/status/1802778068538298493

 

[CyclistAbi]

Why the Belgian football team didn't invite Remco to play with them?

Zakaj Evenepoel ni postal profesionalni nogometaš? | 24ur.com

V preteklih dneh sta naslovnice belgijskih Å¡portnih Äasopisov preplavili dve vpraÅ¡anji. TamkajÅ¡nji mediji se spraÅ¡ujejo, kakÅ¡na bo zaÄetna enajsterica Belgije na evropskem prvenstvu v NemÄiji ter kakÅ¡no je fiziÄno stanje kolesarskega zvezdnika Remca Evenepoela, ki se pripravlja na...

www.24ur.com

 

[Karl Merckx]

Yeah, with that in mind and seeing that he didn't ride something like Strade Bianche to prepare (at least a bit) for the gravel stage I find it hard to believe that he and the team actually target the gc at the Tour...

He did recon the tour stage, and it is nothing like strade bianche.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ironically, that's the time our boy uses to do the exact opposite.

It's a pity that you come here again to tell untruths. I don't know one topathlete losing weight during off-season. The point is not to gain too much (dead) weight. Especially fat. Some riders (f.i. Evenepoel) gain also more muscles in the upper body during off-season and off-peak periods.
In the case of Evenepoel, it was not an off-peak period, but a rest- and recoveryperiod after serious injurys. Even worse, fractures. In such a case, following a diet that is too strict in order not to gain weight is irresponsible and counterproductive.
The problem with Evenepoel is that he gains more muscles and weight than other riders (f.i. Vingegaard, Roglic). Due to his physique and metabolism. So, it's normal to have some weight issues, coming back from fractures in such a short time.

It is scientifically more appropriate to start a GT with half a kilo or a kilo too much (which is of course a disadvantage) than start that GT with the ideal weight after a forced diet (which is very unhealthy and can even lead to a serious breakdown). Anyway, Evenepoel would have been on his ideal weight not having crashed, not having fractured bones, not having to rest, recover etc. So, the crash was/is the problem. Not the guidance of the team, dietician, trainer.
I also suggest that you apply with your "expertise" as a dietician and/or trainer for a large cycling team.

Yes, i know, you've made your point countless times. Evenepoel is the only person in the universe with those traits. Usual top athletes don't need to lose weight in the off-season, because most of them are professional. But read up, because it seems a lot has changed since your retirement, when professional athletes want/need to lose significant amounts of weight for whatever reason, you will see that every sportsnutritionist an dietician will tell you to do that as much as possible in the off-season, or at least NOT in peak periods or training for peak periods. (Funny that you actually agree with exactly that, just a few lines below, but you probably didn't even notice.) So what you really should not be doing, is adding excess weight right before you need to build up towards a peak. WHICH HE DID. Evenepoel is also the only professional cyclist who needs to add weight to recover from the most common and trivial cycling injury: a broken collarbone. No other cyclist has ever had weight issues from recovering from that injury, except Evenepoel it seems.

And it is scientifically proven that losing weight during a GT is NOT a good idea contrary to what you may believe. Those are practices from a few decades ago. We have known for years that trying to lose weight during a GT is counter productive. Dumoulin, back in 2017 even gained weight when he won the Giro.

That starting the TDF with optimal weight but after a crash diet is a bad idea is exactly what i was saying in the post you replied to, but you probably didn't even read what you were replying to and got caught up in your fantasy.

 

[AmRacer]

There's no 🐐 discussions in this thread, the headline is missing a 'not'.
😁

 

[Berniece]

There's no 🐐 discussions in this thread, the headline is missing a 'not'.
😁

We don't believe in fairy tales here

 

[spicelab]

Losing much weight while training to get in peak shape, is not possible without risking performance. As far as my basic knowledge goes, sportsnutritionists will tell you to lose the weight during off-season / off-peak periods. Ironically, that's the time our boy uses to do the exact opposite. Slow weight loss can help performance, fast weight loss impedes it, specifically strength and anaerobic performance. Basically, it's not just getting to your best optimal weight, but how you reach it is even more important. The difference between Vuelta '22 and '23.

Basically there is no way he will be at optimal GC weight AND optimal GC form at the same time, in time for the TDF.

Worst thing I ever did for my cycling performance was go on a crash diet while training for an amateur race. I lost a stack of weight but most of it ended up being lean muscle. Was an absolute shell of myself during the race and it took me months to feel good on the bike again. In fact I've never regained my peak power and that was years ago.

Way too many posts here with a cartoonishly simplistic view of weight loss resulting in guaranteed performance gains

 

[shadowrider]

Yes, i know, you've made your point countless times. Evenepoel is the only person in the universe with those traits. Usual top athletes don't need to lose weight in the off-season, because most of them are professional. But read up, because it seems a lot has changed since your retirement, when professional athletes want/need to lose significant amounts of weight for whatever reason, you will see that every sportsnutritionist an dietician will tell you to do that as much as possible in the off-season, or at least NOT in peak periods or training for peak periods. (Funny that you actually agree with exactly that, just a few lines below, but you probably didn't even notice.) So what you really should not be doing, is adding excess weight right before you need to build up towards a peak. WHICH HE DID. Evenepoel is also the only professional cyclist who needs to add weight to recover from the most common and trivial cycling injury: a broken collarbone. No other cyclist has ever had weight issues from recovering from that injury, except Evenepoel it seems.

And it is scientifically proven that losing weight during a GT is NOT a good idea contrary to what you may believe. Those are practices from a few decades ago. We have known for years that trying to lose weight during a GT is counter productive. Dumoulin, back in 2017 even gained weight when he won the Giro.

That starting the TDF with optimal weight but after a crash diet is a bad idea is exactly what i was saying in the post you replied to, but you probably didn't even read what you were replying to and got caught up in your fantasy.

You continue to testify of bad faith and tell untruths. The goal is never to gain weight during rest periods and recovery periods (after illness and injury). But to fully recover from heavy exertion, debilitating infections, fractures, etc. This is done through adapted nutrition and supplements, so that the body can recover. A side effect will always be that some weight (but not a lot) is gained during those periods. For heavier built riders, such as Van Aert, Evenepoel, classic riders, some sprinters, this will be more than for frail riders due to their physique and sometimes their metabolism. And of course more than skeleton riders like Vingegaard and Roglic.

I think you are confusing the old times when riders hardly paid attention to their diet during the winter and gained kilos, often dead weight. Which in itself was not good, but not insurmountable either. Because in those times, the riders had to perform from january/february till oktober/november. Some riders also riding six days on track during automn and winter.

Finally. You continue to claim that Evenepoel was the only one who gained weight during his rest and recovery period after his serious injuries. Which is utter nonsense and testifies to (deliberate?) disinformation. Evenepoel, like Vingegaard, Cras, Landa, etc., gained some weight during their recovery period. What is now largely finished for all these riders.

In the meantime, we continue to wait for your explanation about your protégé, Van Wilder. Why, despite your diet advice, he has gained weight now and than, lost weight and is underperforming.

 

[shadowrider]

Worst thing I ever did for my cycling performance was go on a crash diet while training for an amateur race. I lost a stack of weight but most of it ended up being lean muscle. Was an absolute shell of myself during the race and it took me months to feel good on the bike again. In fact I've never regained my peak power and that was years ago.

Way too many posts here with a cartoonishly simplistic view of weight loss resulting in guaranteed performance gains

I totally agree. Riders, unlike boxers, other martial artists or weightlifters, do not use forced diets. Those mentioned sporters just have to perform one day during worlds, olympics. Although such a crash diet is not healthy, they do recover because they do not have to perform for days and weeks shortly afterwards, or like riders in a GT. But of course, sometimes even riders and teams make a bad estimate. As Evenepoel and his team did after his Lombardiacrash and his recoveryperiod before the Giro 21. It lost a bit too much weight too quickly. But all in all, the doctors and dietitians of cycling teams are doing a good job. Certainly much better than what the unscientific "Logic" proclaims.

 

[Berniece]

I totally agree. Riders, unlike boxers, other martial artists or weightlifters, do not use forced diets. Those mentioned sporters just have to perform one day during worlds, olympics. Although such a crash diet is not healthy, they do recover because they do not have to perform for days and weeks shortly afterwards, or like riders in a GT. But of course, sometimes even riders and teams make a bad estimate. As Evenepoel and his team did after his Lombardiacrash and his recoveryperiod before the Giro 21. It lost a bit too much weight too quickly. But all in all, the doctors and dietitians of cycling teams are doing a good job. Certainly much better than what the unscientific "Logic" proclaims.

The only thing I’m doubting is the performance manager. If he says Evenepoel needs to weigh 63kg, I don’t doubt the dietitian can work out a proper plan to get there in a healthy manner. But is the target the performance manager set for Evenepoel the right one.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

All this talk of losing weight, gaining weight is quite tiring. Can they not just suss out the best races for him at his current weight and skills or thereabouts, and leave it at that, instead of trying to make him into a something that he is not gonna be a top end rider of.

 

[Berniece]

All this talk of losing weight, gaining weight is quite tiring. Can they not just suss out the best races for him at his current weight and skills or thereabouts, and leave it at that, instead of trying to make him into a something that he is not gonna be a top end rider of.

Remco doesn't want this himself. He wants to win GT's

 

[AmRacer]

Remco doesn't want this himself. He wants to win GT's

Remco wants to win GTs without losing weight?

 

[shadowrider]

The only thing I’m doubting is the performance manager. If he says Evenepoel needs to weigh 63kg, I don’t doubt the dietitian can work out a proper plan to get there in a healthy manner. But is the target the performance manager set for Evenepoel the right one.

Anyway, we don't know the weight of the riders. Not during winter. Not in normal shape (before a one day race of small stage race), not just before a GT, not in the third week of a GT. The stated weight data that circulate is often incorrect or not accurate. Disinformation is sometimes even deliberately spread by the teams and the riders themselves. What matters is how riders look. An slightly overdeveloped upper body and a fuller face are signs of being relatively overweight. What we saw at Evenepoel in the Dauphiné and in photos of Van Aert in his early training after his crash but also to a lesser extent of the Vingegaard (less) skeleton during altitude training.

 

[shadowrider]

Remco wants to win GTs without losing weight?

No, but that's what some people and "nutritionist" Logic suggest. In fact, gaining too much weight and, afterwards, losing too little weight. At least, that's the wishful thinking of some pseudo scientists.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You continue to testify of bad faith and tell untruths.

This is exactly what you have been doing since you created your account.
You are agreeing with a poster who just shared his personal story as a follow up that matches exactly what i have been saying.
I explained what happened to Van Wilder twice.

But keep acting like you are Indurain's and Evenepoel's personal physician.

Evenepoel didn't add weight as a consequence of nutritions to heal. He gained weight because he didn't ride his bike for 3 weeks. He even told us that literally and mentioned this always happens with him, regardless of injury. So the one telling untruths and discusses in bad faith is you.

 

[Berniece]

Remco wants to win GTs without losing weight?

No. wheresmybrakes asked why doesn't he just focus on races that are more catered to his weight, instead of putting so much effort in trying to get to GT weight. And my answer is that Remco doesn't want to only focus on those races, he wants to win it all.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The only thing I’m doubting is the performance manager. If he says Evenepoel needs to weigh 63kg, I don’t doubt the dietitian can work out a proper plan to get there in a healthy manner. But is the target the performance manager set for Evenepoel the right one.

This is the big elephant in the room, some pun intended. I am fully convinced this still harks back to his '21 Giro. He failed there, weighing 60kg. Since then they have acted as if it were a foregone conclusion that weighing that much/little is bad for him, because he failed and it wasn't a healthy situation. But imo the problem wasn't that he weighed 60kg, the problem was that he was losing weight in the middle of his recovery, which was unlike last month not a simple collarbone fracture. The problem was that he hadn't raced for 9 months. The problem was that he came back from a serious injury that actually nearly ended his career. The problem was that he relapsed in the middle of recovery. The problem was that he had far too little time to get into the right shape.

And now, years later they still hold to that belief and we have to read ramblings of a quack that tells us that it is because he is such a special character that has the physical traits of a sprinter instead of a climber. I for one can't wait for Jakobsen to start climbing like Evenepoel.

 

[shadowrider]

This is exactly what you have been doing since you created your account.
You are agreeing with a poster who just shared his personal story as a follow up that matches exactly what i have been saying.
I explained what happened to Van Wilder twice.

But keep acting like you are Indurain's and Evenepoel's personal physician.

Evenepoel didn't add weight as a consequence of nutritions to heal. He gained weight because he didn't ride his bike for 3 weeks. He even told us that literally and mentioned this always happens with him, regardless of injury. So the one telling untruths and discusses in bad faith is you.

Of course, the reason of gaining weight was not riding bikes after his crash and fractured bones. Also, due to the specific fractures, not allowing him to do alternative training. So, every rider will gain weight under those circumstances. Some more than others. Depending on their body type. Evenepoel does not differ from others in this respect, except for a slightly sturdier physique.
But again, under those circumstances, strict dieting to maintain or even lose weight (as you unscientifically claim) would absolutely be an attack on the health of a top athlete.
But you never respond to those findings in a well-founded manner. The only thing you do is suggest that Evenepoel is deliberaly gaining weight or not watching his weight during rest and recovery periods. Evenepoel will undoubtedly have told you that too

 

[shadowrider]

This is the big elephant in the room, some pun intended. I am fully convinced this still harks back to his '21 Giro. He failed there, weighing 60kg. Since then they have acted as if it were a foregone conclusion that weighing that much/little is bad for him, because he failed and it wasn't a healthy situation. But imo the problem wasn't that he weighed 60kg, the problem was that he was losing weight in the middle of his recovery, which was unlike last month not a simple collarbone fracture. The problem was that he hadn't raced for 9 months. The problem was that he came back from a serious injury that actually nearly ended his career. The problem was that he relapsed in the middle of recovery. The problem was that he had far too little time to get into the right shape.

And now, years later they still hold to that belief and we have to read ramblings of a quack that tells us that it is because he is such a special character that has the physical traits of a sprinter instead of a climber. I for one can't wait for Jakobsen to start climbing like Evenepoel.

I totally agree with the first paragraph. Although losing (too) much weight did not happen during his recovery, but in the run-up to the Giro, in full training. He and his team have learned lessons from that.
Your reaction in the second paragraph is stupid. Of course he hasn't the physical traits of a sprinter. As he hasn't the physical traits of a climber either. Nor the fysical traits of skeletors. Just because he is small (in height) does not mean he is naturally a light person. Something we can all see and which he also told you "personally". Not the fact in absolute figures.
So, again. Evenepoel is gaining quicker and more weight than climbers and skeletors as Vingegaard and Roglic. During winter and during and after revalidation. He therefore has to work harder to control and reduce the weight gain. Such as other slightly heavier built riders, classic riders and even sprinters.

By following your weight and training model, it would not even make sense for Evenepoel to be at the start of the Tour. He would already collapse in the second week. Fortunately, he didn't do that and he will get a nice place of honor without any bad luck

 

[peterfin]

I don't want to burden this discussion further, but on balance, the gravity of the situation dictates that Remco's weight is a pivotal variable, exerting substantial tonnage, sparking a multitude of hefty debates, and bearing massive consequences.

 

[shadowrider]

I don't want to burden this discussion further, but on balance, the gravity of the situation dictates that Remco's weight is a pivotal variable, exerting substantial tonnage, sparking a multitude of hefty debates, and bearing massive consequences.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I totally agree with the first paragraph. Although losing (too) much weight did not happen during his recovery, but in the run-up to the Giro, in full training. He and his team have learned lessons from that.
Your reaction in the second paragraph is stupid. Of course he hasn't the physical traits of a sprinter. As he hasn't the physical traits of a climber either. Nor the fysical traits of skeletors. Just because he is small (in height) does not mean he is naturally a light person. Something we can all see and which he also told you "personally". Not the fact in absolute figures.
So, again. Evenepoel is gaining quicker and more weight than climbers and skeletors as Vingegaard and Roglic. During winter and during and after revalidation. He therefore has to work harder to control and reduce the weight gain. Such as other slightly heavier built riders, classic riders and even sprinters.

By following your weight and training model, it would not even make sense for Evenepoel to be at the start of the Tour. He would already collapse in the second week. Fortunately, he didn't do that and he will get a nice place of honor without any bad luck

I did not say it makes no sense for him to be at the TDF, i only said that he can't be at optimal GT weight (which according to me is not 63kg but well below that) AND be in the best shape. Simply because there is not enough time for both. He can be at the start in great form, but not at optimal weight. If he wants to be there at optimal weight (if i were to guess that would be somewhere around 61kg), he would -as discussed- need to lose weight too quickly which would have a negative impact on his form. He can go for GC with great form while weighing 63-64kg, but he will not even remotely be a match for Pogacar (or Vingegaard should he be ready). He could go for a top 10 spot, battle for top 5, maybe even podium. But many minutes behind Pog/Vinge.

As for "Although losing (too) much weight did not happen during his recovery, but in the run-up to the Giro, in full training. He and his team have learned lessons from that." This is categorically false! You can watch videos of his rehab at Lieven Maesschalck's atelier, where he was already FAR below the weight he now assumes as his "normal riding weight". As a result his team, as i have been saying all along, did NOT learn their lessons from that, but simply drew the wrong conclusions!

In February '21 he was interviewed by Ruben Van Gucht, he claimed he had been too skinny during his recovering months, which was an issue because he/they had not accounted for his body needing to recover.

Winter 2020-2021, please tell us again who is posting untruths.:

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[18-Valve. (pithy)]

He did recon the tour stage, and it is nothing like strade bianche.

The course is not that technical, but the road conditions are pretty damn bad in parts. I thought his comments that it was much ado about nothing were naive.