Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[red_flanders]

Straights were fine, but those corners were abysmal. I’m glad there weren’t any steep downhills with corners like in Strade. He’s too calculated/scared/untechnically in the corners and loses a lot of momentum and energy. He was also just really strong today.

True on tarmac as well of course, not a gravel thing, though it may exacerbate the problem.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Kudos to Evenepoel today. He really rode like a champ, balls to the wall. I thought he would ride much more conservative in this Tour, but this is how we know him and what we love him for.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Remco interview

https://twitter.com/x/status/1810002042234003483

View: https://twitter.com/itvcycling/status/1810002042234003483

Damn.

"Sometimes you also need balls, and Jonas didn't have them today." Love it

 

[Billy The Kid]

I’m rating his first week 9 out of 10!The only drawbacks was his descending on Galibier and lacking some technical skills in the downhill of the TT and on the gravel corners. A side from that he’s been fantastic. I think he came in to the tour at 90-95% of topform and is now on an upward trajectory. Thats a good omen for the second and third week. I dont think he will crack big on one of the mountain stages as his morale and form is really good + he has Landa to guide him in the mountains!

 

[AmRacer]

I’m rating his first week 9 out of 10!The only drawbacks was his descending on Galibier and lacking some technical skills in the downhill of the TT and on the gravel corners. A side from that he’s been fantastic. I think he came in to the tour at 90-95% of topform and is now on an upward trajectory. Thats a good omen for the second and third week. I dont think he will crack big on one of the mountain stages as his morale and form is really good + he has Landa to guide him in the mountains!

More downhills coming and cornering today wasn't so good.

 

[Berniece]

If he doesn’t crack I can even see him win if Pogacar feels the Giro eventually

 

[Blobs]

Damn.

"Sometimes you also need balls, and Jonas didn't have them today." Love it

Lol. You would hope Vingegaard would come back with "Sometimes you also need brains, and Remco didn't have them today", but he's too polite.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It’s day 9 and that’s the first actual attack he put in. He’s been pretty smart.

As far as the questions about him being good on gravel, he either got dramatically better somehow or it was in fact, just the legs that were the problem. The latter seems wildly more likely.

I completely disagree. His gravel riding was "good enough" not to lose time. but that's about all you can say about it. After every corner he had to make up 5 to 10 meters and he has once again wasted a lot of energy needlessly. He is making similar cornering mistakes as he does in the downhill. It's ok for you not to notice, but it pisses me off that the team keeps pretending not to notice. It makes him bleed time (downhill, TT) and waste energy trying to make up for it.

 

[Medvind]

If he doesn’t crack I can even see him win if Pogacar feels the Giro eventually

Big question is if he can handle several high mountain stages in a row and if he can hang with Pog and Vinge.
For Remco to win I think both Vinge and Pog need to underperform during the 3rd week. Pog and Vinge has been on a level above everyone else the last years, and Remco has really never showed that level (mabye this will be the time?). But I'm hopeful he can snatch 3rd place if he is just consistent and don't have a bad day.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Hopefully Evenepoel's interview has given @Samu Cuenca some inspiration for a new title of the Vingegaard thread.

Seriously though, we can *** about Vingegaard, but it's just Visma. They castrated Roglic just the same way. Even Van Aert should often have raced a lot more aggressively than he did. If Van Aert had attacked more in his career, he would have won a lot more, always banking on the sprint and having to react to attacks, just to lose the sprint of a small group.

 

[red_flanders]

I completely disagree. His gravel riding was "good enough" not to lose time. but that's about all you can say about it. After every corner he had to make up 5 to 10 meters after every corner, and he has once again lost a lot of energy needlessly. He is making similar cornering mistakes as he does in the downhill. It's ok for you not to notice, but it pisses me off that the team keeps pretending not to notice. It makes him bleed time (downhill, TT) and waste energy trying to make up for it.

Yeah he sucks at cornering. Doesn’t matter the surface. It’s a real problem, as it was on stage 4 when he wasted a ton of energy on a stage where he could have put 30 seconds on some folks if he was any good.

The point was that the outcome of this stage was fundamentally different for him than previous gravel stages…because he had the power.

 

[shadowrider]

I

He weighed 68.5kg at the time.
Just to be clear, this is NOT a joke.

Finally you start to believe your own lies......

7 kg above his shapeweight.... ! He would have ended "in the bus" with the sprinters.

 

[Billy The Kid]

More downhills coming and cornering today wasn't so good.

Ofcourse, but at least its only MTF left, so he will most of this time be in a group, so it will not be so visible as down the Galibier! It is not possible, even for Remco, to win the last TT to Nice if he doesn’t get more skilled in the downhills. Poga and Vinge will take seconds in each corners there if he dont up his game

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

More downhills coming and cornering today wasn't so good.

Never a downhill finish. If his rivals attack in the downhill to get a headstart on the final climb, they will also force their own hands and that means they need to keep going from the bottom of the climb. I doubt many will take those chances and risk blowing up themselves. The only two who might do it (because they can) are the two who probably don't need to.

 

[Blobs]

He clearly couldn't follow Pog's attacks at the end, so he would have been dropped and lost time to him, if Vingegaard had had the balls to race. This was the best possible outcome for him, but it doesn't seem like he realises it.

Unless he doesn't care about losing time to Pog, but just wanted to gain time on Vingegaard.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I

Finally you start to believe your own lies......

7 kg above his shapeweight.... ! He would have ended "in the bus" with the sprinters.

Wait... you have been claiming his shapeweight was 63-64. Either you have been lying, or you are very bad at maths.
That number is a number that was given to the press.

 

[shadowrider]

And yet it was Landa and Vervaeke who were with him till the end and nobody else within 10 minutes. From the days of Boonen, Devolder, Pozzato, Terpstra, Stybar, etc to well, .... this. Quickstep went from being the best classics team over 2 decades to being actually in danger when the roads are flat within 2 years. This downfall needs to be studied.

Have you watched the stage ? Those gravelroad climbs were brutal. They also had to climb a wall one or twice. Nothing to do with flat roads and (cobble) classics.
If Pogacar, Evenepoel and Vingegaard (evt Jorgenson, Ayuso, Almeida) had been in the lead and worked together, not only Roglic and Rodriguez would have lost minutes, but also all the (flat) classic riders. VDP and Girmay included.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Hopefully Evenepoel's interview has given @Samu Cuenca some inspiration for a new title of the Vingegaard thread.

Seriously though, we can *** about Vingegaard, but it's just Visma. They castrated Roglic just the same way. Even Van Aert should often have raced a lot more aggressively than he did. If Van Aert had attacked more in his career, he would have won a lot more, always banking on the sprint and having to react to attacks, just to lose the sprint of a small group.

At least Visma is not Sky/Ineos. We have seen some glorious long range attacks from Visma (Granon 22, Tourmaleyt 23), and so they should at least get respect for that. It could be a lot worse.

 

[shadowrider]

Wait... you have been claiming his shapeweight was 63-64. Either you have been lying, or you are very bad at maths.
That number is a number that was given to the press.

His (GT) shape weight is around 61 or 61,5 kg. It's a few kg more for one-day races as Clasica and Liège. For small stageraces, it's between. But of course, nor himself, nor his staff will reveal what his exact weight is.
Again, with 68,5 kg, he would not only resemble as a little fat man. It's also more than 10 % more than his shape weight. Totally ridicullous.

 

[Jagartrott]

Positioning was good before the first few sections, but much worse later, which almost cost him. Of course, he was hardly supported compared to all other serious contenders. He seems mighty strong though. Strongest of any GT I've seen him in, by some margin. I'm really curious whether he'll fade or not.

 

[shadowrider]

Evenepoel was very strong today, but spend a lot of energy. It is clear that his cornering technique is still poor, on steep, winding descents, on gravel and in the rain. That's why I don't understand why he didn't anticipate. He was often too far in the group entering a gravel section. And when the gravelsection had a sharp turn at the start, he lost another two or three places.
Was it smart or stupid to attack at 70/80 km of the finish ? Well, had Vingegaard cooperated, the VLAB and UAE-teams would not have chased and the actual top three of the GC would have taken 2 to 3 minutes on Roglic, Rodriguez. And, for Evenepoel himself, he would also have had those extra minutes on the "reserve" leaders Ayuso, Almeida and Jorgenson.
In the end, he was very lucky that Jorgenson and Vingegaard didn't cooperate with Pogacar, after being too far in the group again at the moment Poga attacked. Evenepoel would never have been able to come back on his own. Not helped by UAE and VLAB, but also not by Bora and INEOS.

 

[jono]

I'm definitely a bigger fan of Remco than I was before the start of the Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I'm definitely a bigger fan of Remco than I was before the start of the Tour.

Who isn't?! Great to have him here!

 

[proffate]

Evenepoel was very strong today, but spend a lot of energy. It is clear that his cornering technique is still poor, on steep, winding descents, on gravel and in the rain. That's why I don't understand why he didn't anticipate. He was often too far in the group entering a gravel section. And when the gravelsection had a sharp turn at the start, he lost another two or three places.
Was it smart or stupid to attack at 70/80 km of the finish ? Well, had Vingegaard cooperated, the VLAB and UAE-teams would not have chased and the actual top three of the GC would have taken 2 to 3 minutes on Roglic, Rodriguez. And, for Evenepoel himself, he would also have had those extra minutes on the "reserve" leaders Ayuso, Almeida and Jorgenson.
In the end, he was very lucky that Jorgenson and Vingegaard didn't cooperate with Pogacar, after being too far in the group again at the moment Poga attacked. Evenepoel would never have been able to come back on his own. Not helped by UAE and VLAB, but also not by Bora and INEOS.

Why would ving cooperate? He is not racing to secure third place against Rodriguez. Remco is probably the only one of the top 4 who would consider third place at this race an accomplishment. I even think that if you're in second and trying to crack the nut that is Pog, you may want more riders close in GC so Pog has to respond to more attacks, and perhaps eventually leave himself open to a final coup by you.

Even if they cooperated for 50km, at some point one of those guys is going to start conserving matches. That is the nature of competition. And as soon as someone starts pulling their punches, the others sit up as well. Then it's all back together and a big waste of energy.

As we saw, the GC group eventually realized that racing was pointless and just sat up. A GT is as much about saving energy, or forcing your opponents to waste energy, as it is about using energy. On this day we saw that Remco wasted energy on the gravel just sitting in the bunch as compared to Pog and Ving. Therefore Pog and Ving should want to just sit in the pack, perhaps using doms to keep the pace high, and apply their superior handling/energy conservation skills while whittling away at Remco's reserves.

Ving is also banking on riding his way into form in this tour, so every day in week 1 that he doesn't lose time is a victory. No need to dip into the red till later in the race. As a biased fan, I don't love it, but today was smart riding and a good outcome for Ving.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

His (GT) shape weight is around 61 or 61,5 kg. It's a few kg more for one-day races as Clasica and Liège. For small stageraces, it's between. But of course, nor himself, nor his staff will reveal what his exact weight is.
Again, with 68,5 kg, he would not only resemble as a little fat man. It's also more than 10 % more than his shape weight. Totally ridicullous.

loooool so now you are claiming his GT weight is 61-61.5kg after you have been claiming for months that was not feasible for him due to his Indurain metabolism, so you are now agreeing with me that THAT should indeed be the standard for his GT weight. Glad you finally saw the light my man, and glad you finally low key acknowledged you have been talking out of your ass all along!

In Valencia, he was clearly overweight (for a pro athlete). But you seem to have forgotten Valencia started on the 2nd of february, only a month after new year and he simply carried his winter/off-season weight to the first race. Still think i'm "lying"? Yeah, 68.5kg.

Hey Shadowrider, remember this below? You seem to be an expert on his weight, right?

If Remco's form was coming, in crescendo, considering he broke his scapula only seven weeks before and only had 4 weeks of training, then maybe he's actually on target for a super peak at the Tour. But he needs to lose those extra 2-3 kg by the start.

Why not 4-5 kg ? Or 10 kg ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807443210601410994

View: https://x.com/LeGruppetto/status/1807443210601410994

You've been calling me a liar, but the facts are here for everyone to see. Now, i won't call you a liar, i 'll simply call you a quack.