Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[shadowrider]

Not bad for a rider who is not built for GT's in his first TDF, aye Oldermanish?

And who weighs too much, is catastrophic guided in terms of nutrition and who is poorly trained. Yet according to the illogical explanations of an expert.

 

[BigCoward]

I am getting pumped up about what could be a battle for second between vingo and ramco. I can see a situation where pogi just sits on vingo's wheel and watches him trying to deal with Remco.

Until vingo looks cooked and then pog attacks, and him and remco work together to fully drop vingo.
Dream scenario for both of them. Whereas neither has any good reason to work with vingo.

 

[shadowrider]

Evenepoel is more punchy than Vingegaard. But throughout the entire Tour so far, somehow he has managed, each and every time, to be gapped by Vingegaard after Pogacar attacks. Either he's picking his nose or his positioning sucks.

Evenepoel never climbed better. But it's also obvious, being that sharp, he lost some explosiveness. But the last two mountain stages will only be about sustainability. Even a slightly inferior Vingegaard is still better than Evenepoel on the long and steep climbs. Although I do not rule out that Vingegaard or Evenepoel (or even both) will have a minor breakdown during one of the two Alpine stages.

 

[shadowrider]

Until vingo looks cooked and then pog attacks, and him and remco work together to fully drop vingo.
Dream scenario for both of them. Whereas neither has any good reason to work with vingo.

Poga had the idea to do that yesterday. But Evenepoel faded and could not come back at the wheel of Poga (which even slowed down a bit). But anyway, if Evenepoel had succeeded to come back on Pogacar, it would have been a fierce battle in the descent (Poga/ Evenepoel versus Laporte/Vingegaard) and in the moderate finishclimb (Poga/Evenepoel versus Van Aert/Benoot/ Vingegaard). At the end, Poga/Evenepoel would also have gained only a few seconds over Vingegaard.

 

[shadowrider]

Because Remco is a little older and stronger and as the Tour progresses he seems stronger. He showed this again on stage 17.

We forget but Remco is a little younger than Pogacar so we should expect him to be better than we have seen before knowing he has had a good preparation.

Pog will likely stomp the Bonette & Isola stage but the TT Remco could win the way he is recovering.

The problem in the TT, Evenepoel will have to survive two descents including the difficult and technical first kilometers of the descent to Nice. I'm not sure Evenepoel will gain time in the two climbs and he will loose a lot of time in the descents. In addition, there is a chance of rain on Sunday. So I would advise Evenepoel not to take any risks and not to go for the win. Thus securing his third place.

 

[dercuforever]

The problem in the TT, Evenepoel will have to survive two descents including the difficult and technical first kilometers of the descent to Nice. I'm not sure Evenepoel will gain time in the two climbs and he will loose a lot of time in the descents. In addition, there is a chance of rain on Sunday. So I would advise Evenepoel not to take any risks and not to go for the win. Thus securing his third place.

Also, Pog is at home and recovered the circuit with Mohoric.

 

[peterfin]

Also, Pog is at home and recovered the circuit with Mohoric.

The biggest risk for Pog is himself. We saw that yesterday when he couldn't hold himself from attacking and taking risks in the decent he shouldn't do at this stage in the race. The TT is indeed close to his home, he will take every corner on the limit. I am sure he wants to show he can beat Remco in a TT. It may not be the smartest strategy however.

 

[houtdffan]

Evenepoel never climbed better. But it's also obvious, being that sharp, he lost some explosiveness. But the last two mountain stages will only be about sustainability. Even a slightly inferior Vingegaard is still better than Evenepoel on the long and steep climbs. Although I do not rule out that Vingegaard or Evenepoel (or even both) will have a minor breakdown during one of the two Alpine stages.

climbs this weekend are not exactly steep. a lot of 5-7% climbing

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

And who weighs too much, is catastrophic guided in terms of nutrition and who is poorly trained. Yet according to the illogical explanations of an expert.

You are forgetting the dimwit in the teamcar.

Remco said he wants to lose a bit more weight to be able to compete for TDF victory in the future. Maybe you should call him and tell him he is already lighter than physically possible with his metabolism. A few weeks ago you mocked a user wo said Evenepoel needed to lose 2-3kg before the Tour to be able to compete. Then Evenepoel says he lost 2.5kg and suddenly you flee the forum for two weeks, which is something you do every time your claims get debunked.
And i state my opinion based on what i see and hear. Maybe you can tell me when Evenepoel was close to this good in the past 18 months. It's been since the Vuelta/WCC 2022 that he has been this good. His weight in both cases... ? So yes, a rider with his talent should be able to reach his peak shape more than once every two years. If that doesn't happen, people aren't doing their jobs.

Evenepoel never climbed better. But it's also obvious, being that sharp, he lost some explosiveness. But the last two mountain stages will only be about sustainability. Even a slightly inferior Vingegaard is still better than Evenepoel on the long and steep climbs. Although I do not rule out that Vingegaard or Evenepoel (or even both) will have a minor breakdown during one of the two Alpine stages.

It's not a lack of explosiveness that is the problem, it's about getting boxed in and losing positions. Even while he now might be less explosive than when he is a few pounds heavier, he should still be able to match Vingegaard. And yet he's been trailing every time. He couldn't follow on San Luca because he was boxed in and got dropped because he was badly positioned. He had to bridge and just moments later Pog attacks. He was also boxed in when Pog attacked on Pla d'Adet. Yesterday the same. Boxed in by his own domestique.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

You realize that one of those 2 is Evenepoel's performance on Lo Port when he was beaten by Roglic, right? Does that seem like the best evidence to cite? To me that undercuts this whole, "top 3 greatest performances ever" narrative: The curators who are defining this are selective, biased, making assumptions and decisions in their model, and incentivized to sell hard.

Sure, although I'd point out that Remco is 5 minutes down on Pogacar despite winning the ITT, so "sharp end" is a bit of a stretch." Regardless, I'm not sure how Roglic's rocky start undercuts my skepticism that suddenly the top 10 or so would all beat Lance in 2000 and Contador in 2007. It almost makes me think this picture is a bit too simplistic...

Exactly. We're really supposed to believe that Remco being absolutely obliterated is "better" than anything that Lance, Contador, Basso, Froome, Roglic, Vingegaard (until this Tour when he is barely recovered from an extremely bad crash), and Pogacar (until this Tour) have ever done?

To be clear, I'm not referencing The Clinic, which I know how to find. I am more speculating regarding:

• Biased analysis & reporting
• Unreported / unacknowledged factors that explain consistently high performances across the top 10; I have no idea if any of these are relevant, but a non-exhaustive list of factors could include:
  • Weather conditions
  • Road surface
  • Changes in the start or finish
  • The way the race was ridden
  • The way previous top performances on the climb were ridden (I know Contador and Rasmussen did a series of sprints and recoveries, which indicates they could have certainly gone faster)
  • Impact of motorcycles

This Cyclingnews article seems relevant. They estimated impact of modern tech as a 2.5 minute delta and say if you equalize the two performances, Pogacar would have beaten Pantani’s record by 43 seconds, ignoring all other factors (race context, clinic, etc.). Ignoring the clinic, if even remotely directionally correct, this would help explain some of the inexplicable performances and qualify some of the hyperbolic statements flying around here (e.g., Remco with the third best climbing performance in history while losing 2.5 minutes).

Was Pogačar actually better than Pantani on Plateau de Beille, or did he just have faster equipment? We did the maths to find out

Just how much of Pogačar’s 3:30 advantage can be attributed to developments in bike tech and cycling clothing?

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This Cyclingnews article seems relevant. They estimated impact of modern tech as a 2.5 minute delta and say if you equalize the two performances, Pogacar would have beaten Pantani’s record by 43 seconds, ignoring all other factors (race context, clinic, etc.). Ignoring the clinic, if even remotely directionally correct, this would help explain some of the inexplicable performances and qualify some of the hyperbolic statements flying around here (e.g., Remco with the third best climbing performance in history while losing 2.5 minutes).

Was Pogačar actually better than Pantani on Plateau de Beille, or did he just have faster equipment? We did the maths to find out

Just how much of Pogačar’s 3:30 advantage can be attributed to developments in bike tech and cycling clothing?

www.cyclingnews.com

So we should take better bike tech into account, because guys having dope running out of their nose... they had to ride on ancient bikes.

 

[Berniece]

Not sure what to expect tomorrow. If he smells blood he will attack, but I can imagine him also having a bad day. It seems to be going too well

 

[Nick2413]

This Cyclingnews article seems relevant. They estimated impact of modern tech as a 2.5 minute delta and say if you equalize the two performances, Pogacar would have beaten Pantani’s record by 43 seconds, ignoring all other factors (race context, clinic, etc.). Ignoring the clinic, if even remotely directionally correct, this would help explain some of the inexplicable performances and qualify some of the hyperbolic statements flying around here (e.g., Remco with the third best climbing performance in history while losing 2.5 minutes).

Was Pogačar actually better than Pantani on Plateau de Beille, or did he just have faster equipment? We did the maths to find out

Just how much of Pogačar’s 3:30 advantage can be attributed to developments in bike tech and cycling clothing?

www.cyclingnews.com

To the best of my knowledge modern tech can’t fight gravity. The riders have gotten much better than they were in the past. Lots of contributing factors for that, clinic stuff aside.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

It's been such an impressive race from Remco so far, fighting back in the earlier part of the race when dropped on the steep stuff but now starting to take time on Jonas. It's been really solid overall in a race where we've seen some crazy displays and, while I never got involved in all the "GC Remco" debates his lead over the rest of the (non Pog/Vin) contenders is honestly bigger than I expected at this point. They've all been shipping significant time recently and perhaps it's Vinge's turn today.

Hoping he takes a big step towards 2nd on this stage.

 

[Wvv]

Another big exam for Remco. Not a (very) weak day should automatically be considered a good day. Surviving that kind of altitude this late in a GT and it's job done. Everything better is extra.

 

[noob]

Remco is using some app to learn Mandarin. Does it mean he's been in talks with Vino?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Another strong performance on a hard mountain stage. Still two more chances to crack Vingegaard.

 

[Didinho]

Dilemma. Try to save energy for the TT win maybe or try to go all in and eventually gaining time tomorrow. Think Pogi will win the TT if he goes for it.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

I would have liked to see him attack on Bonette when Van Wilder was still out front and Vingegaard had no helpers. I can understand why he didn't, but it still looked like a pretty good opportunity at the time.

 

[velaso montador]

Impressed with him. He is doing really well just as I hoped and predicted before hes not that far of Vingegaard top level.

Its just that Pogacar is different galaxy weve always knowned this if he is not injured. Also think Evenpoel can add more levels than Vingegaard coming years, this will get exciting. Way to go lad.

 

[AmRacer]

Remco wants another stage win, this Sunday.

 

[Snake]

TT will be an easy win for pogacar giving the profile, it's pretty much climb and descent.

 

[Red Rick]

If there was a chance to get 2nd, he missed it today

 

[Valv.Piti]

Remco should have used Landa better today again.

But great effort, I really hope he takes 2nd

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Whether he finishes second or not, today confirms that this will be his most impressive GT so far by a margin. Much more consistent and much further ahead of the humans than when he won the Vuelta, despite the route being much less favourable for him. The only problem is that he needs to repeat his Vuelta-to-Tour improvement another two times to have a shot at beating this version of Pogacar...