Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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jmdirt

Dec 6, 2013
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
Wait, are you guys talking about compared to this year, or compared to Vingegaard next year? He should definitely be able to improve significantly next year, with a perfect prep, maybe half a kilo or a kilo lighter, working a bit on positioning and cornering mainly. Whether that would be enough to beat Vingegaard... we also don't know.


That was my point. There is no way of knowing how a 100% peak and skinny Evenepoel would compare to a 100% peak Vingegaard, because neither was fully prepared this year and past Vingegaard goes out the window after what happened now.
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I was replying to a post that seemed to be indicating that JV would be better next year, while not also assuming that RE could also be better.
 
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Oldermanish

Jan 31, 2016
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dobrien said:
Yup, agreed. In terms of pacing and how he's managed that I've been incredibly impressed by him, really; 'mature' is a great way to put it. As Logic has pointed out though, he has really cost himself with some positioning issues, finding himself boxed in or too many wheels back at times and everything counts at this level. He definitely seems to have a lot more upside if he works on his descending issues (he'll never be the 2nd coming of Salvoldelli but he certainly can get better), some of the positioning stuff, a better team, etc.

This Tour has been amazing for him frankly; I very much feel he's had the kind of race which is really going to give him a big bump forward in a lot of ways. Confidence-wise this is pretty huge; I did not expect this out of him and am really delighted to see it.
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The thing about positioning is also linked to metering effort over 3 weeks. If you obsess about being in a clear attack line you will go crazy what with fans, cars and press bikes. It's more important to know imminent threats of attack and be there then. Honestly, he didn't miss an opportunity to sit on Tadej's wheel too many more seconds than he would've fighting to see Pogi's tailpipe. He did very well and in the end it doesn't make a minute of difference, let alone 6+ minutes. He did damn near everything right except some descending and positioning on terrain he's never seen. He'll know what to look for next time and should not repeat what he knows were energy killers. That said; it's all different at the next race and takes time to learn it all.
 
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shadowrider

May 18, 2023
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
You are forgetting the dimwit in the teamcar.

Remco said he wants to lose a bit more weight to be able to compete for TDF victory in the future. Maybe you should call him and tell him he is already lighter than physically possible with his metabolism. A few weeks ago you mocked a user wo said Evenepoel needed to lose 2-3kg before the Tour to be able to compete. Then Evenepoel says he lost 2.5kg and suddenly you flee the forum for two weeks, which is something you do every time your claims get debunked.
And i state my opinion based on what i see and hear. Maybe you can tell me when Evenepoel was close to this good in the past 18 months. It's been since the Vuelta/WCC 2022 that he has been this good. His weight in both cases... ? So yes, a rider with his talent should be able to reach his peak shape more than once every two years. If that doesn't happen, people aren't doing their jobs.


It's not a lack of explosiveness that is the problem, it's about getting boxed in and losing positions. Even while he now might be less explosive than when he is a few pounds heavier, he should still be able to match Vingegaard. And yet he's been trailing every time. He couldn't follow on San Luca because he was boxed in and got dropped because he was badly positioned. He had to bridge and just moments later Pog attacks. He was also boxed in when Pog attacked on Pla d'Adet. Yesterday the same. Boxed in by his own domestique.
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He was not "boxed in" on the finishclimb to Isola 2000, when Pogacar attacked. He was not boxed in a few minutes later, when Evenepoel himself attacked behind Landa, but without strength. He lacked explosiveness twice. As a few times the previous days. I don't blame him for that condition. It's just the result of being extremely sharp. Net-wise, he benefits more from his climbing fitness versus his reduced explosiveness. But he is on the limit. A few days more mountainstages would probably have led to a breakdown.
I think riders as Poga and Vingegaard could even lose a extra kg. Well, anyway, Poga already weights 1 kg less during this Tour than during the previous Tours and the Giro in may. Evenepoel also could lose 1 kg, 3 kg... 5 kg. Why not ? But with catastrophic consequences. While he is (partly) another type of rider, also with another built.
Meanwhile, we are still waiting for your apology concerning your behaviour against the nutritionist and the staff of Soudal-Quickstep. Just like admitting that Van Wilder has been below his level for months now. While you continued to deny this despite all findings. Just a few "bad days" after altitude training. It couldn't be crazier.
Van Wilder can certainly still be useful in difficult one-day races and smaller stageraces. But in GTs he clearly falls short.
 
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shadowrider

May 18, 2023
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
You are forgetting the dimwit in the teamcar.

Remco said he wants to lose a bit more weight to be able to compete for TDF victory in the future. Maybe you should call him and tell him he is already lighter than physically possible with his metabolism. A few weeks ago you mocked a user wo said Evenepoel needed to lose 2-3kg before the Tour to be able to compete. Then Evenepoel says he lost 2.5kg and suddenly you flee the forum for two weeks, which is something you do every time your claims get debunked.
And i state my opinion based on what i see and hear. Maybe you can tell me when Evenepoel was close to this good in the past 18 months. It's been since the Vuelta/WCC 2022 that he has been this good. His weight in both cases... ? So yes, a rider with his talent should be able to reach his peak shape more than once every two years. If that doesn't happen, people aren't doing their jobs.


It's not a lack of explosiveness that is the problem, it's about getting boxed in and losing positions. Even while he now might be less explosive than when he is a few pounds heavier, he should still be able to match Vingegaard. And yet he's been trailing every time. He couldn't follow on San Luca because he was boxed in and got dropped because he was badly positioned. He had to bridge and just moments later Pog attacks. He was also boxed in when Pog attacked on Pla d'Adet. Yesterday the same. Boxed in by his own domestique.
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Are you living on another planet ? Evenepoel was in topshape at the start and during the first stage(s) of the Giro 23. Until he dropped out due to covid. So, after his failed comeback during the Giro 21 (mainly a mistake by himself and partly by the team, which was fully acknowledged), he was in topshape in the GT-s of 22, 23 and 24. But after he had to abandon in the Giro 23, he was not fully motivated and in top form for the Vuelta later that year. But he still won three stages, the mountains GC and almost the points GC.
Concerning myself fleeing the forum. It shouldn't get any crazier. I'm not "married with the forum", nor with my laptop. There are other things in life. (other) Sports, exercise myself, culture, holidays. So, when I join the forum, I make some remarks on different topics. Leaving the forum one day, three days, a week.... You should try yourself.
 
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shadowrider

May 18, 2023
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KZD said:
I think Remco needs to do an all in tomorrow. He will likely take some time back in the final TT but almost 2 minutes is just too much and I don't think he should save energy for the TT win because as you said it Pogi is likely to win.

Whether he finishes second or third this Tour is definitely a success for Remco and certainly encouraging for the rest of his season and career.
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If Poga is motivated and is going full gaz, he will also win the TT. He is better than Evenepoel uphill, as good on the flat and far better in the downhill. Evenepoel just has to ride a good TT, without takings risks in the descents. Ending second or third. Ending third in the GC.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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shadowrider said:
If Poga is motivated and is going full gaz, he will also win the TT. He is better than Evenepoel uphill, as good on the flat and far better in the downhill. Evenepoel just has to ride a good TT, without takings risks in the descents. Ending second or third. Ending third in the GC.
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And why didn’t Pog win the first TT then? Not to mention that the split times of that TT don’t confirm your story
 
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Samu Cuenca

Samu Cuenca

Sep 26, 2020
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shadowrider said:
Are you living on another planet ? Evenepoel was in topshape at the start and during the first stage(s) of the Giro 23. Until he dropped out due to covid. So, after his failed comeback during the Giro 21 (mainly a mistake by himself and partly by the team, which was fully acknowledged), he was in topshape in the GT-s of 22, 23 and 24. But after he had to abandon in the Giro 23, he was not fully motivated and in top form for the Vuelta later that year. But he still won three stages, the mountains GC and almost the points GC.
Concerning myself fleeing the forum. It shouldn't get any crazier. I'm not "married with the forum", nor with my laptop. There are other things in life. (other) Sports, exercise myself, culture, holidays. So, when I join the forum, I make some remarks on different topics. Leaving the forum one day, three days, a week.... You should try yourself.
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I can assure you that Logic has tried that. Not always by choice, but still.
 
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shadowrider

May 18, 2023
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
He could lose the TT to Pog but still find enough time on Vingegaard. Difficult to predict how the Dane will perform. If he's starting to feel his crooked prep, then you can't rule it out. But on the other hand, today he was good enough to hang onto Evenepoel's wheel. Which isn't directly comparable but 2 minutes is still a sizeable chunk of time.

I also wonder whether anybody will do a bikechange in the TT. Both climbing and descending (technical parts) should be better on a regular bike, but at the end there is also a few km flat. I haven't heard anything about teams decisions in that regard.


The mistake was to get boxed in so that he couldn't simply follow Vingegaard from the beginning. It could well prove to be the difference between 2nd and 3rd at the end of the week.
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He was never really boxed in, it costed him just one or two lenghts. Completely meaningless during these three terribly difficult weeks.
in the final climb to Isola 2000, Evenepoel was in an ideal position, but Vingegaard was immediately on his wheel. So, Vingegaard was slightly better than Evenepoel the first two week. Those last days, Evenepoel was/is as strong or maybe slightly better than Vingegaard (let's see the last two stages).
 
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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shadowrider said:
Are you living on another planet ? Evenepoel was in topshape at the start and during the first stage(s) of the Giro 23. Until he dropped out due to covid. So, after his failed comeback during the Giro 21 (mainly a mistake by himself and partly by the team, which was fully acknowledged), he was in topshape in the GT-s of 22, 23 and 24. But after he had to abandon in the Giro 23, he was not fully motivated and in top form for the Vuelta later that year. But he still won three stages, the mountains GC and almost the points GC.
Concerning myself fleeing the forum. It shouldn't get any crazier. I'm not "married with the forum", nor with my laptop. There are other things in life. (other) Sports, exercise myself, culture, holidays. So, when I join the forum, I make some remarks on different topics. Leaving the forum one day, three days, a week.... You should try yourself.
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I'm living on planet earth, where are you living is the real question. If you think him in the Giro '23 is in any shape or form comparable to now, that's quite funny. His form was indeed good, but he was 2kg heavier than now, not that far from his Dauphiné weight actually. It would probably have been enough with the TT's to win the Giro against a subpar Roglic, old man Thomas and Almeida, but comparable to now, not by a longshot.

I will also respond to your other drivle in this post, so i don't have to quote you multiple times. Since Vervaeke quit with Covid, Van Wilder has had a different role in the team. If you want to know how bad his form was going into the Tour, check the ITT and check Galibier. I never claimed he was in his best shape (i even said this early in the season), i merely (successfully) debunked your claims that he was out of shape. There's a big difference. So... how many times did you apologise to him? Because you expect me to apologise to the team nutritionist, lol. How about you start apologising to people on the forum you tried to mock or falsely accused of lying?

Evenepoel did not get boxed in. I guess on San Luca he just dropped because he wanted to get dropped. And on Pla d'Adet he actually was so slow that even a snail like Rodriguez outpunched him to react to Vingegaard, but he was not boxed in. And i guess Evenepoel was lying everytime when he said so himself that he got boxed in on numerous occasions. Must be. He should apologise.

Now Pogacar is equally strong / stronger on the flat... well that's possible in case Evenepoel burned himself on the climbs, sure. That's a bit like claiming Evenepoel is stronger on the climb because Evenepoel climbed faster in the first TT (because Pogacar overpaced on the flat and the first part uphill).

And you keep ignoring the elephant in the room. You claiming he could impossibly be this skinny, be at this weight and keep his power throughout 3 weeks. "Because of his metabolism". Remco is like Wout and Indurain... loooooool. In the meanwhile, you go kicking and screeaming about, making ridiculous claims while calling other people liars. What a joke. Keep attacking me to divert attention to the real discussion, haha.
 
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