Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That didn't feel like the way to go in the moment.

Yeah, ignoring both was the better move.

 

[tobydawq]

Yeah, ignoring both was the better move.

I don't think it ruined their night that I said congratulations.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't think it ruined their night that I said congratulations.

Sorry, misread. I thought you had peed your pants and DIDN'T even say congratulations. Ignore my previous post.

 

[KZD]

He's won six of the eight possible titles now. Only the Olympic RR and the European RR are still missing. I don't think anyone else scores higher than four (Olano has four). Of course this wasn't possible in the past, but it's an achievement that won't soon be equaled.

While Pogačar is making history in Grand Tours and monuments, Remco is making history in major Championship events.

If we look just at Olympic and Worlds, which are the two that really matter, Cancellara is the most successful rider with two Olympic ITT golds and four World ITT golds. There is a good chance that Remco overtakes him as he has already one gold in each ITT event and also the World RR gold which is something that Cancellara never manage to get despite several attempts.

 

[scribers]

When Remco gets the gold August 3rd he will be the only cyclist with two golds in the two most important Olympic cycling events. If he wins the worlds and some Italian classic can he still get velo d'or?

Remco is hitting his season form peak now. Calling it now he will not be nearly as competitive in late sept/oct

 

[scribers]

Only Hour record is missing.

And chronos

 

[scribers]

I

I don't think it ruined their night that I said congratulations.

“Congratulations on losing your baby fat, fatco!”

 

[kingjr]

Why do you ask?

To see if I guessed correctly.

 

[stekelegel]

For GC no less! Ganna already making plans, Pogi better watch his back.


Is this based on any sort of scientific evidence or are you making assumptions? I have not thought about this before, but i would think since they are all riding with the same wheel size and tire thickness, that more force pushing down on the same small contact surface means better grip, not less. It would also be a strange conclusion after the women's race, where there were a lot more crashes. Unless the women are all fat and/or incompetent.

Think Pogacar, not only keeping up the speed during cornering, but incredible explosive accelaration after to get up to top speed asap. Remco and Van Aert looked quicker in that fase, and because the corners where being taking at very low speeds because of the rain, the quicker accelaration gave them a bigger edge. And Tarling and Ganna have to get 80 kg or more moving again vs 60 kg for Remco.
Before the rain, it looked like a battle of the big gears (68 for tarling, ganna and van aert) and brute force. Something Remco did not have ideal preparation with the Tdf.
With the woman you saw some basic cycling errors, like Digert pushing way to hard left in the first fase of a left corner.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Think Pogacar, not only keeping up the speed during cornering, but incredible explosive accelaration after to get up to top speed asap. Remco and Van Aert looked quicker in that fase, and because the corners where being taking at very low speeds because of the rain, the quicker accelaration gave them a bigger edge. And Tarling and Ganna have to get 80 kg or more moving again vs 60 kg for Remco.
Before the rain, it looked like a battle of the big gears (68 for tarling, ganna and van aert) and brute force. Something Remco did not have ideal preparation with the Tdf.
With the woman you saw some basic cycling errors, like Digert pushing way to hard left in the first fase of a left corner.

Ganna has won bunch sprints. Tarling's sprint at the line seemed punchy enough. Stop conjuring excuses.

 

[Netserk]

Sprint is not the same as acceleration. Contador could accelerate but not sprint. Evans could sprint but not accelerate. Rogla accelerates better than Evenepoel, and the order is reversed for sprinting.

Ganna is at the extreme, much better sprint than acceleration.

 

[Valanga]

This must be the first time someone claiming Remco won because of his superior bike handling and fast acceleration...

 

[Oldermanish]

This must be the first time someone claiming Remco won because of his superior bike handling and fast acceleration...

Watching him he was much improved on line selection. Once you've got that down the acceleration can come off momentum saving spin in lower gears. Maintaining that through a corner allows a better "feel" for traction than just arching a wet corner without pedaling; especially in some of those huge gears. You can feel the gradual loss of traction and adjust weighting accordingly. The higher your seat above the bottom bracket the more leverage you have to apply to a turn; that's not an advantage on wet pavement. A shorter rider simply can be closer to the point of traction. You'd also adjust air pressure lower for optimal grip and a lighter rider can do that without as much puncture risk. Very small elements add up but the rider has to know how to handle the bike. That's usually more with your butt on the saddle than directing the bike with the bars.

Think riding a motocross bike in sand and cornering as an extreme example. You use the rear of the bike to direct the turn, the front for braking into the turn with little braking on exit. Same with a GS turn in skiing.

That course was super narrow at points which would make it tough to set up cornering and exiting a turn. Not much opportunity to drift a turn or correct a minor miscalculation without slowing dramatically. WvA had to slow dramatically several times which could also be the downside of riding a rigid front disc on braking. Ganna almost ate the metal barriers on the edge on the straighaway.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Surreal discussion.

I wonder how many riders exist that are good at bunchsprints, that would be at a significant disadvantage accelerating from 25 to 60kmh after a corner when compared to someone like Evenepoel , to the extent that they lost 15s over perhaps 10 corners. My guess is zero.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Ok, i'm out before i'm gonna say something that's gonna get me banned.

 

[Netserk]

Not really.

When we're talking Van Aert and Van der Poel, everyone agrees Van der Poel is better at 30s interval reps while Van Aert is the faster sprinter.

Even PCM knew from the beginning that they are distinct attributes.

 

[KenFiamingo]

On Sunday evening after having had dinner and on my way to my hotel room, I was walking along the Promenade des Anglais. At some point there was a couple walking just beside me with no other people around.

The woman was, shall we say, rather eye-catching and after a few seconds it hit me that I thought I'd seen her before. And indeed, when I looked again, sure enough, clad in jeans and a nice white shirt was no other than Remco.

I must say I became quite starstruck but I did manage to say congratulations and give him the thumbs up to which he gave me a thank you in reply. After that, we continued the stroll for a couple of minutes (me walking slightly in front of them) - still no other people nearby - until they reached their destination and I was on my own again. I kicked myself a little that I didn't ask for a photo but I wouldn't want to be that guy to disturb a rare quiet moment too much.

I am sure, however, that the experience propelled Remco to get the gold yesterday!

Lucky you. I experienced the Aldi version of this story last week.

Replace Nice by Oostende, replace thumbs up by no thumbs at all, replace Remco by Bert De Backer.

Oh, and i did not kick myself for not having asked a photo.

 

[RedheadDane]

Okay, I have a clarifying question about that photo.
Sure, it's from the podium, but they're all on the top step - for photo op - right? He's not that short, is he?

 

[Oldermanish]

Surreal discussion.

I wonder how many riders exist that are good at bunchsprints, that would be at a significant disadvantage accelerating from 25 to 60kmh after a corner when compared to someone like Evenepoel , to the extent that they lost 15s over perhaps 10 corners. My guess is zero.

We're talking about this wet, narrow TT on TT bikes. If you can't minimize braking and loss of momentum you can be the fastest thrasher in the world. Our NBC broadcast was horrendous for actual viewing of most riders; we got lots of Remco, Van Aert, Americans crashing and a little of Ganna. What I saw of Remco is his comfort in most circumstances and it's conjecture that he lost little to no time in corners.

To your absolute consideration of pack sprinters on road bikes you forgot the most recent, commanding pack sprinter: Girmay. So that is at least one more than zero.

 

[peterfin]

Lucky you. I experienced the Aldi version of this story last week.

Replace Nice by Oostende, replace thumbs up by no thumbs at all, replace Remco by Bert De Backer.

Oh, and i did not kick myself for not having asked a photo.

Lol. My brother sent me a picture of him with Bert De Backer so you would have got that picture if you asked 😄

 

[stekelegel]

Surreal discussion.

I wonder how many riders exist that are good at bunchsprints, that would be at a significant disadvantage accelerating from 25 to 60kmh after a corner when compared to someone like Evenepoel , to the extent that they lost 15s over perhaps 10 corners. My guess is zero.

that is not what I said. I said Remco was the best on the day! That is why he won. Just amazing that he beat Ganna and Tarling on a route that was tailormade for them. After he rode the tdf and they prepared 2 months just for this.
For me the rain, the women falling, meant all those pacing plans, watts, corner speeds, from Ganna and Tarling went down the trash. Just created a little doubt, while Van Aert en Evenepoel just rested and said let’s do this. Like someone said, Olympics always created surprises.

 

[scribers]

Ok, i'm out before i'm gonna say something that's gonna get me banned.

Shrewd move my friend. And yes, we are friends. It says it right there in your username

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In the words of one of the chess players of all time - "The truth hurts"

I know, but i can't say it because it would get me banned.

that is not what I said. I said Remco was the best on the day! That is why he won. Just amazing that he beat Ganna and Tarling on a route that was tailormade for them. After he rode the tdf and they prepared 2 months just for this.
For me the rain, the women falling, meant all those pacing plans, watts, corner speeds, from Ganna and Tarling went down the trash. Just created a little doubt, while Van Aert en Evenepoel just rested and said let’s do this. Like someone said, Olympics always created surprises.

We've now ended up at a point where people expect us to compare Evenepoel to Van der Poel to prove the point that it's possible for Evenepoel to be better at accelerating out of a slow corner than people who actually do bunch sprints (like Ganna in this discussion) in such a way that this course with few corners to begin with, was actually in his favor. You weren't the only catalyst in the discussion so far so my response what not directed at anyone specifically, but you did say, Evenepoel is at an advantage compared to Ganna, in accelerating out of a corner to full speed, to that extent, that he was 15s faster on a course with hardly any corners (this you implied by stating he was lucky it rained). "because the corners where being taking at very low speeds because of the rain, the quicker accelaration gave them a bigger edge." These were your words and the reason why he was "lucky it rained" (your initial statement). If you are now saying he won because he was actually stronger, then i wonder why you brought up him being lucky. So now you mean he was lucky he was stronger. Ok, i get that. Pogacar during the TDF was also lucky he was stronger, because if he weren't, he'd have been weaker! Drumrolls.

We're talking about this wet, narrow TT on TT bikes. If you can't minimize braking and loss of momentum you can be the fastest thrasher in the world. Our NBC broadcast was horrendous for actual viewing of most riders; we got lots of Remco, Van Aert, Americans crashing and a little of Ganna. What I saw of Remco is his comfort in most circumstances and it's conjecture that he lost little to no time in corners.

To your absolute consideration of pack sprinters on road bikes you forgot the most recent, commanding pack sprinter: Girmay. So that is at least one more than zero.

I have no idea what you are talking about or how it factors into the discussion at hand. As for your last point... you are claiming Girmay's acceleration is inferior to Evenepoel's? Because that was the question.

 

[red_flanders]

that is not what I said. I said Remco was the best on the day! That is why he won. Just amazing that he beat Ganna and Tarling on a route that was tailormade for them. After he rode the tdf and they prepared 2 months just for this.
For me the rain, the women falling, meant all those pacing plans, watts, corner speeds, from Ganna and Tarling went down the trash. Just created a little doubt, while Van Aert en Evenepoel just rested and said let’s do this. Like someone said, Olympics always created surprises.

He was the best, there is no doubt.

But…somehow the plans of Tarling and Ganna went in the trash, but the two Belgians didn’t have to deal with this problem? They didn’t make pacing plans for the Olympic Games? They just showed up and winged it, which gave them an advantage over the guys who…I guess didn’t have access to the internet to see a week ago that it was going to rain?

Can’t be hearing that right so I wonder if you can clarify.

 

[Oldermanish]

I know, but i can't say it because it would get me banned.


We've now ended up at a point where people expect us to compare Evenepoel to Van der Poel to prove the point that it's possible for Evenepoel to be better at accelerating out of a slow corner than people who actually do bunch sprints (like Ganna in this discussion) in such a way that this course with few corners to begin with, was actually in his favor. You weren't the only catalyst in the discussion so far so my response what not directed at anyone specifically, but you did say, Evenepoel is at an advantage compared to Ganna, in accelerating out of a corner to full speed, to that extent, that he was 15s faster on a course with hardly any corners (this you implied by stating he was lucky it rained). "because the corners where being taking at very low speeds because of the rain, the quicker accelaration gave them a bigger edge." These were your words and the reason why he was "lucky it rained" (your initial statement). If you are now saying he won because he was actually stronger, then i wonder why you brought up him being lucky. So now you mean he was lucky he was stronger. Ok, i get that. Pogacar during the TDF was also lucky he was stronger, because if he weren't, he'd have been weaker! Drumrolls.


I have no idea what you are talking about or how it factors into the discussion at hand. As for your last point... you are claiming Girmay's acceleration is inferior to Evenepoel's? Because that was the question.

You appear to be blending comparisons unrelated to justify some higher analytical authority.

My contribution to celebrating Evenpoel's outcome is simple and not at all about sprinting out of corners [[deleted]]. Read what I said, the images that contributed to the opinion and decide if that's not correct. From what I saw he didn't need to get out of the saddle very much because he selected the correct arcs in most turns and got right back down to the power work. It's the best way to ride a wet solo effort. As for Girmay; you're free to judge how he rode it. My guess is you saw as much as I did which was none. Also could indicate pure sprinting power wasn't the primary means to win this, or any TT.