Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Oldermanish]

Roglas chance winning the Tour is gone. He knows it.

Based on the rebound in this Vuelta it's doubtful he's ready to pack that dream. Certainly Pogacar is the top favorite. Jonas has yet to recover and his short season is the result of rushing into the Tour. Hopefully he does not have lingering issues.

 

[Berniece]

Better check with Primoz on that....

They'll do one Tour together as co-leaders, and hopefully they can use that to their advantage. I really have difficulty to see Roglic still being good enough when he's 36

 

[KoopaCycling]

The good teams like to have one top 3 leader, then a second who can ride top 10 at least (Yates, Almeida, Vlasov for roglic now, what Vinge was for roglic, Landa), and a second super dom / top 15 rider a la Kuss. In 2023 Visma was blessed with several riders performing above expectation, in 2024 it's UAE.

But just like Remco had in the tour with just Landa around, this leaves you very exposed when something happens. Remember Sierra Nevada 2022 were Remco quickly lost all teammates? Give him Landa there and I think Mas gains no more then 15 secs.

This year it was UAE and Visma doing all the work, but there will be stages were lacking teammates will cost you.... And only 1 superdom can leave you very exposed.

I think Remco benefits most of all from having a super train: dictating a medium-hard pace, to prevent attacks or limit time differences, or riding hard in the valley in case of longe range attacks. Even if he is on par with Pog and VIng, winning will be by being almost equal in the mountains and make a gap in the ITT.
Having teammates around you always inspires confidence. If anythings happens to me....

Remco knows this to, and with big 3 (soon to be big 4 with red bull?) have double the budget of SQS, for me it is inevitable he leaves after 2026 if nothing changes....

On lesser gradients where draft matters more, having a teammate pull you when you are in a tough spot can indeed help. And maybe with Landa there, the difference might have been only 15-20 sec instead of 40.

At the same time quickstep did not do a poor job for remco in that Vuelta. On that stage i remember that Vervaeke was sent ahead in a breakaway, and paced remco once the early steeper section had passed. Pacing Remco till around the 9 km mark. With Mas attacking from a small group of favourites from around the 10 km mark. And Remco upping the pace and dropping Vervaeke a couple of hundred meters later.

If you switch Vervaeke with Landa, an in-form Landa would not have dropped, Cause he can hang with other top GC riders. So i can see were you are coming from. But how many top 8 GC riders are willing to domestique? And how many of those truly available?

Cause only the top GC riders where left when Mas attacked. The GC group when Mas attacked consisted of Evenepoel, Roglic, O Connor, Mas , Vervaeke. And Angel Lopez slightly ahead. The rest were dropped (with some managing a comeback to evenepoel - ayuso & almeida). Unless i'm overlooking someone.

Now Remco would have benefitted from an in-form Landa. More than what Vervaeke managed to give. Maybe with Landa pacing, Mas only takes around 20 sec, and Evenepoel can follow Roglic in the final couple of km.

Again though, which top 8 GC guy is willing to domestique that is not already on UAE and Visma. I can see Jorgenson being there for Vingegaard. And Adam Yates, Almeida being there for Pogacar. But i don't see Vlasov being there for Roglic in that elite group. Nor Kuss for that matter unless he finds his vuelta 23 legs. So who is left that could still be there in that elite group and is willing to domestique? Simon Yates already going to Visma. I'm not seeing many options (to pick up). For either Bora or Soudal tbh.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Again though, which top 8 GC guy is willing to domestique that is not already on UAE and Visma. I can see Jorgenson being there for Vingegaard. And Adam Yates, Almeida being there for Pogacar. But i don't see Vlasov being there for Roglic in that elite group. Nor Kuss for that matter unless he finds his vuelta 23 legs. So who is left that could still be there in that elite group and is willing to domestique? Simon Yates already going to Visma. I'm not seeing many options (to pick up). For either Bora or Soudal tbh.

A former contender, who knows his winning days are behind him. Like Landa. Not that i would rate Landa as top 8 GC rider, but you get my meaning. I wonder if maybe Bernal might be interested. I honestly don't see him winning a GT ever again.

Other than that, i think there are some top tier domestiques that would really be an upgrade for the team, like De Plus.

 

[rghysens]

Other than that, i think there are some top tier domestiques that would really be an upgrade for the team, like De Plus.

Didn´t SOQ contact both De Plus and Sivakov last year (and also someone else I forgot), but couldn´t offer enough money?
Also, would current Bernal survive the pace of a 15-men group?

 

[Berniece]

Didn´t SOQ contact both De Plus and Sivakov last year (and also someone else I forgot), but couldn´t offer enough money?

Indeed, they already tried to get them and they declined. But I’m not sure they need someone extra for the type of racing they do now. Landa close by is enough

 

[Low is rhe new high]

A former contender, who knows his winning days are behind him. Like Landa. Not that i would rate Landa as top 8 GC rider, but you get my meaning. I wonder if maybe Bernal might be interested. I honestly don't see him winning a GT ever again.

Other than that, i think there are some top tier domestiques that would really be an upgrade for the team, like De Plus.

Landa 2022, 3rd in the giro, 2023 5th in the vuelta 2024 5th in the tour and now on his way to a top 3 in the Vuelta. Apart from that several top 8ths in one week races tha last three years , He is definitely a top 8 GC rider. Taking his consistency in to account he is most likely one of the best superdoms equal to Kuss and Yates. Bora can not match that ( if not Roglic is ok as a superdom but he is not as reliable)

 

[Berniece]

Landa 2022, 3rd in the giro, 2023 5th in the vuelta 2024 5th in the tour and now on his way to a top 3 in the Vuelta. Apart from that several top 8ths in one week races tha last three years , He is definitely a top 8 GC rider. Taking his consistency in to account he is most likely one of the best superdoms equal to Kuss and Yates. Bora can not match that ( if not Roglic is ok as a superdom but he is not as reliable)

Yeah they don't have anyone at that level, yet. Also haven't heard rumours of them getting someone like that. They might believe Vlasov is that person, but that's still a level below.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Landa 2022, 3rd in the giro, 2023 5th in the vuelta 2024 5th in the tour and now on his way to a top 3 in the Vuelta. Apart from that several top 8ths in one week races tha last three years , He is definitely a top 8 GC rider. Taking his consistency in to account he is most likely one of the best superdoms equal to Kuss and Yates. Bora can not match that ( if not Roglic is ok as a superdom but he is not as reliable)

Finishing top 5 doesn't make you a top 8 GC rider, since not everyone is present at every race. He came 3rd in the '22 Giro behind Hindley and Carapaz when none of the big dogs where there, for instance.

 

[peterfin]

Lefevre said in his latest column that there no in- or outgoing transfers anymore this season (except maybe for Moscon but he will most likely extend his contract).

 

[Berniece]

Finishing top 5 doesn't make you a top 8 GC rider, since not everyone is present at every race. He came 3rd in the '22 Giro behind Hindley and Carapaz when none of the big dogs where there, for instance.

Which 8 riders would you put in front of him if you don't see him as a top 8 GC rider. First 4 are obvious, Pogacar, Evenepoel, Vingegaard, Roglic. Here's a list to help. I find it hard, and it depends a bit on what you take into account. They are very close together, imo.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Which 8 riders would you put in front of him if you don't see him as a top 8 GC rider. First 4 are obvious, Pogacar, Evenepoel, Vingegaard, Roglic. Here's a list to help. I find it hard, and it depends a bit on what you take into account. They are very close together, imo.

I think if everyone is present, in top form and able to ride for himself, that Landa doesn't make the top 8. Do you think Arensman is a top 10 GC rider? He finished 6th in the Giro twice and 5th in the Vuelta.

Let's not forget, Landa didn't have to work at all during the last TDF and wast mostly riding in Evenepoel's wheel, rather than the other way around. Only the penultimate stage where Evenepoel tried to attack Vingegaard and failed, did Landa put in an effort. Still he finished behind Almeida, who actually DID work for Pogacar a lot. I also rate Yates and Carapaz higher in peak form, the 2022-2023 Thomas would also definitely be better. But sure, it's close and i honestly don't feel that strongly about it. If you consider him top 8, that's fine. I think in a scenario i spoke of, he isn't top 10, because you also still have Hindley, Ayuso etc.

It ultimately doesn't matter. For a domestique, you might actually be better off having someone who is a top 5 climber but not a top 10 GC rider. A guy who knows he will lose 8 minutes in TT's and is bad at positioning in hectic/flat finales, who is fully aware of his shortcomings that he has given up any hope of ever doing a good GC.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I think if everyone is present, in top form and able to ride for himself, that Landa doesn't make the top 8. Do you think Arensman is a top 10 GC rider? He finished 6th in the Giro twice and 5th in the Vuelta.

Let's not forget, Landa didn't have to work at all during the last TDF and wast mostly riding in Evenepoel's wheel, rather than the other way around. Only the penultimate stage where Evenepoel tried to attack Vingegaard and failed, did Landa put in an effort. Still he finished behind Almeida, who actually DID work for Pogacar a lot. I also rate Yates and Carapaz higher in peak form, the 2022-2023 Thomas would also definitely be better. But sure, it's close and i honestly don't feel that strongly about it. If you consider him top 8, that's fine. I think in a scenario i spoke of, he isn't top 10, because you also still have Hindley, Ayuso etc.

It ultimately doesn't matter. For a domestique, you might actually be better off having someone who is a top 5 climber but not a top 10 GC rider. A guy who knows he will lose 8 minutes in TT's and is bad at positioning in hectic/flat finales, who is fully aware of his shortcomings that he has given up any hope of ever doing a good GC.

Yes but Landa is eternal. Hindley was born, peaked, and declined since Landa hit the scene.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Landa finished 9 GC within Top 8. And is on track to do it a 10th time. Landa TT is also not the greatest. So he kinda fits the bill of being a good climber and being top 8 imo. Ofcourse age is undefeated. So who knows how many more years at the top he has in him.

I think Skjelmose would make a great domestique. But he won't want to do it, and lidl-trek has money (and the contract)

Speaking of age, Lefevre also said he wanted to take a step back. Say what you will about Lefevre, but as long as he is there, that team will be well run. If he is sheduled to step away. Maybe taking some staff with you to Bora (if possible) might not be a bad idea.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Let's not forget, Landa didn't have to work at all during the last TDF

This is not true.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This is not true.

Except that it is.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Except that it is.

So I hallucinated Landa pulling on Couillole?

 

[Coffeeplanter]

So I hallucinated Landa pulling on Couillole?

Mate...

Only the penultimate stage where Evenepoel tried to attack Vingegaard and failed, did Landa put in an effort.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Mate...

The initial sentence contradicts what comes after.

 

[Low is rhe new high]

The initial sentence contradicts what comes after.

Landa obviously did a lot of work getting bottles and gel etc … the most important work for a super som is not pulling the train for a few 100 m on the final climb but protect the GC leader from having to spend energy

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Landa obviously did a lot of work getting bottles and gel etc … the most important work for a super som is not pulling the train for a few 100 m on the final climb but protect the GC leader from having to spend energy

Actually I doubt this. As long as there is a third QS rider in the group that guy would go back to the car and not Landa. Maybe it happened a few times, but it was definitively not a lot of work for Landa doing this during the Tour.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Landa obviously did a lot of work getting bottles and gel etc … the most important work for a super som is not pulling the train for a few 100 m on the final climb but protect the GC leader from having to spend energy

Nah man. Landa wasn't on bottle duty. By the time the other teammates (who were on actual bottle duty) were gone, the race went into the final and there was no use going to the car and get bottles. Maybe it happened a few times, but Landa did not waste efforts being "domestique" more than he otherwise would have in case he was "free". The only exception, was on stage 20.

 

[proffate]

Why is it even an argument how much work Landa did? It was plain to see that he did nothing useful, not sure what the point is in denying that. I never saw bottles, he can't help with positioning, I'm guessing his bike is too big for Remco, he wasn't there to pull downhill after a big climb like Galibier. I would label it malice but he's just as incompetent at turning his talent into results for himself.

 

[stekelegel]

Landa mostly was there until the big three exploded. He didn’t have to pull a lot. Just not that many opportunities to really pull.
But I was talking about creating a set up to win the tour for Remco. A set up that can help him beat two riders who you will probably put in top best ever GT riders when they retire (1 top 5 and the other has already beaten that guy twice…) .
I think he will need an US post - Sky train for that. hincapie, heras, leipheimer, Hamilton, … or henao, Porte, Thomas , Nieve, …. Some young guys who don’t know how good they really are, some older whose best days are behind them for a part.
The current crop besides are nowhere near that league, not consistent enough, not able to rise above themselves. The did the job in a rather weakish Vuelta, when the leader is clearly the best man of the race it can work.
But if you want to force Pog and Vinge into mistakes, if you want to blunt them, tire them, you need more then Van wilder and Vervaeke. Or the others….
And true, you can’t just make a team like that in cycling in a scratch, you need patience, luck….

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Why is it even an argument how much work Landa did?

The point i was making, was that he finished behind Almeida, while Almeida actually DID work for Pogacar on a near daily basis. So i would also put an in-form Almeida ahead of Landa as a GC rider. People were discussing Landa being a top 8 GC rider. I disagreed.