Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Keldergoat]

I don't agree that Belgium had been pacing the whole day. Campenaerts had been pacing, the rest was just sitting in the wheel. It's not like they were taking turns. Belgium as a whole failed quite hard, in my opinion. I didn't see the race, but from what I read Evenepoel basically had no real help. I don't understand why a couple of strong teams (Belgium, Netherlands, France, GB) didn't decide to just take turns, keep the gap not too big, instead of trying to reel him back immediately and blowing yourself up. It was dumb, and one of the reasons racing without earpieces is silly.

Because it wasn't up for the Netherlands nor France to control the race. Evenepoel and Pogacar were seen by everyone as the big favourites, and Evenepoel got the favourite treatment that a rider of his stature, with such a strong team deserves. Most of us thought 4400 of am was a tad too much for MvdP prior to the race, and with Evenepoel's track record on LBL, having such a strong team you will get the weight of the race on your shoulders. Belgium just was quite underwhelming like you rightly point out.

 

[Miha81]

The problem was that nobody was ready or able to go with him from 100 km out. The rest is history and it will remain in their heads for a very long time. Tadej inflicted another psychological blow. Who can challenge him now?

I would not go with him if I was in their place either. I am Pog's fan but when he went with 100+ km to go I thought to myself that this is rather foolish of him.

I still think if the remaining of peloton worked together from that point on (and not attacking each other or waiting for other guy to pull) Pog would be caught or forced to abandon his solo action in last 50km. They did not and rest is history now.

 

[Extinction]

I would not go with him if I was in their place either. I am Pog's fan but when he went with 100+ km to go I thought to myself that this is rather foolish of him.

I still think if the remaining of peloton worked together from that point on (and not attacking each other or waiting for other guy to pull) Pog would be caught or forced to abandon his solo action in last 50km. They did not and rest is history now.

The point is not trying to go with him was a mistake, the race was lost. Normally when the chase group doesn't work well together, it's because they are tired. They weren't reeling him back and then the attacks came and it was start and stop. Panic ensued and Pog cruiser home not to be seen again.

 

[Extinction]

I think it’s fully possible to criticize Belgium without taking anything away from Pogacar being the clearly the strongest rider.

When Belgium went to the front with 6 guys or so and rode for one lap they stabilized the gap and even closed it a bit in the flatter section. Then one climb later they were all gone and Remco was alone in a 20 man group with 70 km to go, which lead Remco (and Mathieu) into starting stupid attacks too early.

I think it’s fair to expect riders like Van Gils, Benoot and Wellens to be stronger than what they were here, based on how good they normally are, and if 2 of them had made that 20 man group, that for example riders like Hoelgaard and Wandahl were able to make, at the top and had been pulling until the finish line the last 50 km of the race could’ve looked very different.

A 100k effort from the WC is historical and Pogacar was absolutely insane. But I think everyone more or less agree with that not being the perfect tactic (even if they executed it perfectly with Tratnik) and that weaker riders could’ve challenged him if the supposed strong team of Belgium actually was strong.

Evidently Pog was able to keep the pace high enough that it broke Belgium and then the chase lost organization and then the failed attacks to try and bridge up ensued. I think when Pog went Remco and Mattieu got psyched out. They were afraid to blow up if they tried to follow. But as I said before the race, when Pog attacks Remco's got to go with him, even at the risk of blowing up, because you can't give him a lead.

 

[Miha81]

The point is not trying to go with him was a mistake, the race was lost.

I think most of them if not all would blow up sooner or later if they followed an attack at that stage. But that is my opinion. From this perspective I think riding in peloton to wheel him in was right decision at the time which kinda proved wrong as things went along (if that makes sense).

 

[Lorzenz08]

At the time I think Pogi liked a lot that Tratnik was upfront. And it's possible he thought the peloton would reel the front back too soon, and then he would regret having wasted the opportunity of bridging to Tratnik.

 

[topcat]

I think most of them if not all would blow up sooner or later if they followed an attack at that stage. But that is my opinion. From this perspective I think riding in peloton to wheel him in was right decision at the time which kinda proved wrong as things went along (if that makes sense).

We saw that they all blew up except for O'Connor who didn't put his nose in the wind until the last few hundred metres. They would also have blown up if they had followed Pog. So where do we go from here?

 

[AmRacer]

Can we amend the thread title with a 'not' now? 🙃

 

[pihi42]

I still think if the remaining of peloton worked together from that point on (and not attacking each other or waiting for other guy to pull) Pog would be caught or forced to abandon his solo action in last 50km. They did not and rest is history now.

Well, if the point were to stop Pogi from winning, then the whole peloton could arrange that by working together. Anybody can be stopped by 100+ riders each sprinting on the front for 1km and then abandoning.
The point is, nobody else could Win. That is the point of WC. Winning, not stopping someone else. Even whole teams could not stop Pogi, let alone anyone by himself. If someone was on his level, he could do the same as Pogi did . attack at 50km to go, catch up to Pogačar and then drop him. Nobody could.

 

[Miha81]

We saw that they all blew up except for O'Connor who didn't put his nose in the wind until the last few hundred metres. They would also have blown up if they had followed Pog. So where do we go from here?

I only saw Belgian (and partly Dutch) team willing to pull with 100km to go. I can not know the state of riders in peloton at the moment Pog attacked. But would the chase blown if they would not start attacking each other with 70+km to go and instead work on more coherent chase? Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[James M]

Well, if the point were to stop Pogi from winning, then the whole peloton could arrange that by working together. Anybody can be stopped by 100+ riders each sprinting on the front for 1km and then abandoning.
The point is, nobody else could Win. That is the point of WC. Winning, not stopping someone else. Even whole teams could not stop Pogi, let alone anyone by himself. If someone was on his level, he could do the same as Pogi did . attack at 50km to go, catch up to Pogačar and then drop him. Nobody could.

Exactly this wasnt duo to tactics at all this was a testiment to true force/power which we havent seen anything like before in a one day race in that fashion on this level. Closest before was Pog himself and his numbers in the Tour but thats not a one day.

 

[Berniece]

Can we amend the thread title with a 'not' now? 🙃

For one user’s insecurity? Doubt it

 

[AmRacer]

For one user’s insecurity? Doubt it

Insecure users don't dare amend the thread title.

 

[AmRacer]

I only saw Belgian (and partly Dutch) team willing to pull with 100km to go. I can not know the state of riders in peloton at the moment Pog attacked. But would the chase blown if they would not start attacking each other with 70+km to go and instead work on more coherent chase? Maybe. Maybe not.

Why would any other team help Remco and Mathieu?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Can we amend the thread title with a 'not' now? 🙃

If you want to change the title there's a poll for you!

 

[AmRacer]

If you want to change the title there's a poll for you!

Maybe in the future, but probably not.

 

[Oldermanish]

I'm seeing a lot of unwarranted Remco hate.
I would not call remco spoiled. Sure he might throw a tantrum, but the kid works hard. Not too mention that anyone that comes back to this level after that crash will have put in the work. Remco could not walk at some point.

Did Remco help cohesion by getting angry, pulling to hard at times, to then drop all the way to the back on the peloton on purpose. No. But he was one of the few with the right idea. Work together to salvage the race. Inspired by his own desire to win (no doubt), but the right idea all the same. The rest just did not want to work together. Perhaps because unlike Remco they had already settled for 2nd place.

That said Remco's mentality might have indeed taken a blow this time around. He looked subdued in the post race interview. I have no doubt he'll bounce back though. That's what winners do, and remco remains a serial winner.

Now i'm hoping he'll win Lombardia, as that would be the perfect ending to his season. But i'm not havind delusions. On current form he's got a 5-10% chance against tadej at best in Lombardia.

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

 

[KoopaCycling]

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

The article I read said that merckx thinks of him as the greatest of his (tadej his) generation. I doubt Eddy Merkcx would ever say anyone is better than him. Dude loved competing. No way he would throw in the towel without racing. At least that is what i believe. If you can point me to an article in which he says pogacar is better than him, i'll be mindboggled but will have to accept that strangeness.

Also everyone is referring to Tadej as an alien at times. Strange you suddenly knock remco for it. especially since he meant it as a compliment.

 

[James M]

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

I usually always agree with you but here I stick up for Evenepoel I feel he gets hate for no reason sometimes. Okei the behaviour in the race but take into account he is a winner and that it is in the race itself when emotion are high(you want him to be like in a race scenario without the gesture granted but thats minor) not very mature etc but I would prefer emotions/winner instinct over not caring, its not that bad.

And for the comment about Pog while yeah Eddy himselfs declare its obvious Pog is better than himself and so does everyone else, the comment Evenepoel made I dont think he meant anything other than posetive about it but thats just me Evenepoel said Pogacar is levels above anyone. Pogacar is a terrestrial, the level he has reached, can critic for many things I personally just dont find those two things to be that bad. I only care about em as athletes and its clear Evenepoel has more than normal respect for Pogacar. In a race scenario and right after I just think you have to give em some sort of hall pass when emotions runs high and arm flips can be said about Pog, Mvdp too its not that big of a deal imo this particular thing, ive seen more other things about him i get more the critics about his personality but not this.

 

[Berniece]

Insecure users don't dare amend the thread title.

It’s a tongue in cheek joke that was never meant to be serious. The only people taking it seriously are those that don’t like him.

 

[peterfin]

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

Do you have a link to the interview? I wonder why there is again so much commotion about his behaviour. In the Sporza interview I heard him say that if anyone deserved the title it was Pogacar because of his outstanding season. He doesn't denigrate his opponents. It must be poor choice of words.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I only saw Belgian (and partly Dutch) team willing to pull with 100km to go. I can not know the state of riders in peloton at the moment Pog attacked. But would the chase blown if they would not start attacking each other with 70+km to go and instead work on more coherent chase? Maybe. Maybe not.

I think Remco started attacking with 70 km to go because he saw his team vanish and that disrupted the rest of the chase for atleast the next 20-25 km. If one or two of the Belgian doms were stronger it could’ve looked different.

But as long as the best rider won it doesn’t make much difference to me. Just as when Remco has won many of his biggest wins, sometimes the chasers are being too weak and too stupid. That doesn’t take anything away from the winner.

 

[Berniece]

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

That’s a very unfair assessment of his interview. He said Pogacar is the most deserving winner of the WC jersey this season.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

But he was one of the few with the right idea. Work together to salvage the race.

That wasn't his idea, he was the first to attack, right after the climb where his whole team was dropped.

Belgium as a whole failed quite hard, in my opinion. I didn't see the race, but from what I read Evenepoel basically had no real help. I don't understand why a couple of strong teams (Belgium, Netherlands, France, GB) didn't decide to just take turns, keep the gap not too big, instead of trying to reel him back immediately and blowing yourself up. It was dumb, and one of the reasons racing without earpieces is silly.

Well, one mistake probably in retrospect was not to help the Slovens after the De Plus/Tratnik group went. Neither of them looked overly likely to win from that group, plus it was clear that Slovenia wants to win with Pogacar and Belgium with double-double. Help Slovenia to bring the group back close. One of the reasons Pogacar went so unreasonably early was to escape the probable chaos of the next lap. His team was done, Novak with the last pull, only Roglic left, they had pulled back quite some time to the group alone. If Belgium helps, they might be close enough to jump right into the group, perfect. And then Remco probably would be placed better in that situation. If still at 2' Pogacar might wait a lap, he sees Belgium helping, he can expect them to continue in the next lap, avoiding further attacks from the second and third tier riders.

Riding after Pogacar went? That clearly was only Belgiums job. France? GB? Who for? The Netherlands? After the Olympics where Belgium with 2 strong leaders refused to ride for the longest time... the Dutch would be stupid to now ride here. They knew Van der Poel had pretty good chances, but they also knew that unlike in Paris he wasn't expected to be the man to beat. (While Belgium was the team to beat) Payback time. No, Belgium had to ride that, which they did. And they did the right thing there, get as close as possible, give Pogacar 2' and he takes Tratnik with him another lap, no sense in that. Down to 30" was right, the problem was what happened after:

1) Belgium team blowing up. Simply shouldn't happen after pulling for 20km or so. And pretty sure not all of them were pulling anyway.
2) The big mistake then was Remco attacking when he did. There was a group with 2 or 3 Belgians riding in front 10" or so back, let them come back, let them finish another lap, even if it means being 30" slower, and then start the festivities a lap later. Hoping to get away in a small group, that can actually work together. Remco, Van der Poel, Hirschi, that could work, all 3 can see ways to beat the others, all 3 know that first you have to get Pogacar. A big group like it was there will never really work, REmco trying to make it smaller, when he did, ok, making it smaller makes sense, but not when you have the Belgian hordes a few seconds back, then waiting would make more sense. No radios, he still does to have at least an idea that some of his teammates can't be that far back.

Earpieces? Slovenia managed to tell Tratnik to wait pretty well. Without earpieces. I don't suppose Belgium had less people standing on the roadside than Slovenia.

I think it’s fair to expect riders like Van Gils, Benoot and Wellens to be stronger than what they were here, based on how good they normally are, and if 2 of them had made that 20 man group, that for example riders like Hoelgaard and Wandahl were able to make, at the top and had been pulling until the finish line the last 50 km of the race could’ve looked very different.

Yep. Not sure if Wellens though, he's been pretty bad in long races for almost his whole career. This year was decent in the north I think, but that was basically the first time ever he did well in long races? Benoot definitely, Van Gils maybe not his spring form anymore, could sort of be expected, but still, yeah, should be better. The drunkard Patrick will have lots to say soon in his column I suppose... But yes, team definitely not performing as expected. Even if a bunch of them were not too far back when Remco decided to go in the worst moment possible.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I'm sorry, but i really want a link to that eddy merckx interview. a quick search has only brought me the article off le Parisien. And in that he clearly states that he thinks Pogacar is the best of his generation. Not that he believes Pogacar is better than him. Closest it comes to that, is him stating he would not have dared to attack from 100 km out like that.